I am glad to finally hear someone say this whether it is a man or a woman.

Every relationship calms down or goes stale from time to time. Building and maintaining a relationship should always be ongoing.

But I always hear too many people suggest the betrayed spouse/partner is to be the one to try harder to keep the cheater from straying.  I think that is a load of bull.

As a man, I have never cheated...and I have been neglected by my wife quite a bit.  I found out she cheated on me when we were engaged.  I found this out several years later and we now have kids.  Honestly, if I had found out before we had kids, I would have divorced her.

Point is though, even though I felt neglected, it never entered my mind to find affection elsewhere.

So kudos to your post.

Then maybe you need to give her up.  If you don‘t have kids...maybe you should talk to her about divorce.  Then if this guy is truly only a friend, which I don‘t believe there is really such a thing as opposite sex friends that hang around like pals, then she will see the light and be more sympathetic to you.

If not, then you will know he is more than that and you don‘t need a cheater in your life.

If you have kids...well, that complicates things a little bit. If you find she is cheating, then maybe you need to remind her that cheating on you is cheating on her kids too.

OMG!  Your situation sounds exactly like mine.  Only difference is, I don‘t know if she cheated when she went out.  She cheated before we were married, while we were engaged.  For years I didn‘t know, we had kids...then an old friend of hers who my wife treated badly before she left town, came back, I saw her at the local store and she spilled the beans thinking I already knew....I DIDN‘T!!

So basically, like you, I would stay home with the kids to let her have her time with her friends.

So after I confronted her with it...and yes it was years ago, but in my opinions, once a cheater always a cheater.  But we had kids...so what do I do? 

Some people say this is wrong, but this is what happened.  After I heard she was not true to me and that she is capable of cheating, I was now in the driver‘s seat.  The ball is now in my court.  I call the shots.  I don‘t want this to sound chauvanistic, but I feel I was a fantastic husband. Always showered her with affection, wanted her every night if I could, and I watched our kids so she could have her time with her friends.

But now, she is not allowed to go out with them anymore, if I ever find out she is at a bar or a club, she will be locked out of the house.  I was the most understanding husband you could imagine....not anymore...she messed that up big time.  I now expect my wife to act like...well...A WIFE.

She agreed to my terms because she doesn‘t want to break up the family and she says she loves me.  She swears she hasn‘t cheated since we were engaged....but I don‘t care..she has proven to me she can‘t be trusted.

And I don‘t care if she cheated before we got married...she had my ring on her finger...THAT is just as good.  And a piece of paper saying we are married doesn‘t diminish the betrayal.  She went into our marriage not giving her heart to me fully.

Anyway, this isn‘t about me...just wanted to let you know, our situations are soooo similar.  Its up to you what to do, but I suggest manning up and lay some ground rules.  If she doesn‘t want to be a wife, she can leave the marriage.  I didn‘t want to get a divorce because a cheater will not keep me from my children on a daily basis, but if the marriage is to fail, it will be because she does not want to be a wife.

I am not saying this is the route for you...everyone is different.  You may be able to forgive her...but sounds like you have done that more times than  you need to.  I have just decided its my way or the highway now.

You know...sounds to me like she could care less about your child.  I‘d say gather evidence of her running off with this guy all the time and get FULL custody of your son.

Your son doesn‘t need this jet set cheater raising him.

Some people, especially cheaters, need to hear the cold hard truth of things.

Sugarcoating advice doesn‘t help anyone unless the sugarcoating is appropriate to the situation.

You are 100% absolutely correct about that.

My wife is no longer the woman I was completely and madly in love with. Although I decided to stay in the marriage, mainly for the children, I will never fully trust her ever again.  And really, there is nothing she can do to gain it back.  Once one partner betrays the other, things are forever changed.

I was going to say, if you are still with her, you will NEVER get past it.  Never completely.

But since you are divorced, its easy....find a good woman.  One that will treat you right and that you can treat like a queen.

You find that woman and nothing your ex did will matter.  Sure you‘ll still remember what she did...but no haunting and no hurt.

Thats because there is nothing to get.  She isn‘t suggesting a separation to save your marriage or to clear heads....she is doing it so she can have the freedom to have sex with other men.

I know you don‘t want it to get ugly, but it might be necessary to keep a morally bankrupt woman from getting full custody of your kids.

Don‘t be a chump and don‘t let her push you around.  Just kick her out and start the case against her.

In answer to your question, no, she isn‘t overreacting as far as being upset that you are looking at porn.  She is overreacting about thinking you are cheating.

What does a woman suggest a man do if she will not have sex with him?  I would never seek sex outside of my marriage, even after finding out she hasn‘t been faithful to me in the past.  Nothing wrong with having to pleasure yourself...I mean, if your wife won‘t help you out there, you have no choice.  Hell, when my wife didn‘t have sex with me for a while, I just told her..."ok then, I‘ll be downstairs jacking off"....then the funniest thing...she‘d ask me, "do you think about me when you do that?".....LOL  Ever tried to fantasize about a woman that won‘t have sex with you?

If she has caught you in lies in the past though, even though they are little white lies, you aren‘t building up much trust for yourself.

Here is what I would do...just simply ask her.  "If you won‘t have sex with me...what do you suggest I do?"  And no...NEVER cheat.  That is not an option.

If they are good guys, there is nothing to "teach".

They are either jerks, or they are not. 

And what are you talking about when referring to being taught "the right moves"?

Well...too many women go for the bad boy, or a guy based on how good looking he is...then they are appalled and surprised when the narcissist they chose turns out to be a "jerk".

I like the part where she said it is in the man‘s court to win her over.  Sounds like she is pretty full of herself.

That is good to hear.  You don‘t need to be like the jerks that suggested that.

However you say you respect her?....I don‘t know that she commands much respect for herself....she strings you along to get money, yet wants to be romantically involved with a jerk that is a drunk and wants nothing to do with her.

Doesn‘t sound like she deserves respect and you deserve better.  Move on and find a real woman.

Thats a real nice sentiment to wish her happiness even after she could have cared less about yours.

Ya got a heart of gold man.

It is NOT acceptable behavior among REAL men.

These men that answered your ad are just scum..plain and simple.  They do not represent the rest of us.

For you to say that, then it would be fair for me to say that you hate men.

Afterall, why would you like anyone that wouldn‘t want you for emotional reasons and reasons of love?

I am old fashioned and believed in love all the way up until I found out my wife cheated on me.  And that comment is offensive to me and every good man out there.

Since my wife cheated, could I say all women think with their clitoris?

A bear and a rabbit were taking a crap in the woods.  The bear looks down at the rabbit and asks..."do you have problems of shit sticking to your fur".

The rabbit looked puzzled and said..."well no".

So the bear wiped his ass with the rabbit.

Oh  you can secretly wish revenge on TOW, but remember...its your husband that really betrayed you.  She has no emotional attachment to you...your husband does.

If you want your marriage to heal, then yes, you have to forgive him.

Or, if your like me, you don‘t completely forgive because I no longer am really interested in healing my marriage since my wife cheated.  She has to bend over backwards to prove to me that she deserves even an inkling of forgiveness.  Has your husband done that?  If not, he needs to.  If he isn‘t willing to, there is no healing.

He can vow to never stray again...and he may make good on that promise...but it doesn‘t mean he wouldn‘t like to.  Not trying to make  you feel bad...but in my opinion, once a cheater always a cheater.  They can stop physically cheating, but they still want to.  Its like alcoholism...they stop drinking, but they itch for that drink.

Tell me if this is your problem too...I find myself saying I can forgive, but I cannot, and probably never will, shake the images in my head of my wife spreading her legs for another man.  Every time I find myself getting somewhat close to my wife...BAM there are the images and I am back to cynicism again.

I do know if you decide to forgive him, you should be calling the shots from now on.  If he says he wants to go have a drink with the guys and you don‘t want him to, then he doesn‘t....things like that.

But I wouldn‘t rule out the idea of beating the ever loving dogshit out of TOW if you came face to face with her....

Nah...thats only true if the woman in question is already your girlfriend or wife.

Besides, if i were single and a woman didn‘t want to have sex with me?...no problem...ain‘t nothing a woman can do for me that I can‘t do for myself better....

I am in the same situation as you...only my wife use to go out like that.

I put my foot down.  Did you ever try telling him...you stay home or pack your bags?

Thats because couples therapy is a big joke.

All the advice in the world is not going to take away the pain.  Only time can do that and even then it might not.

Most of the stories I have heard about therapy ends up with the therapist usually trying to put some, if not all, of the blame on the betrayed spouse/partner.  And yes, there are some people that are weak that would say, "yes, it was my fault, I realize that" not knowing it is a crock.

You may stumble?  You mean with your anger or cheating?

And yes, another wife might reap the benefits...but at the expense of Lisa.

But if your wife decides to stay, then I hope you can keep on the straight and narrow.  Just remember, she is in the driver‘s seat from now on.  If she tells you to jump, you ask, "how high?"

I was the kind of guy who trusted her completely.  Never once questioned her when she went out with her friends and I was happy to be the kind of guy who didn‘t mind.

Now I do mind.  And I think it is reasonable for her to act like a wife and not a college floosy.  Like I said...she can do what she wants, but if she wants to disrespect me by leaving me home with the kids while she goes out and drinks with her friends, then she can just stay out.

If my wife had a problem with me going out drinking with the guys, I wouldn‘t do it.  Why the hell would a spouse do ANYTHING that the other is uncomfortable with?

Point is, she had the kind of man where she had everything...I didn‘t mind at all that she had her time with her friends.  You‘d think she would have thought that she is lucky...but no....she went out with her friends..of course guys are going to be nice and sweet to them because they want in their pants...her friends encouraged her, but ultimately, she was to blame.

So looks like letting her do anything without complaint got me nowhere.

Things are different now...she is a wife and mother and needs to act as such...otherwise she can leave.  If she wants the clubbing night life, she can pack her bags...I will not put up with it any longer.  I don‘t see anything wrong with being upset about a spouse who wants to go out and act like they are single.  Are you saying its ok for your men to act like they are single when out with the guys?  I do things with the guys...but its ONLY the guys...a card party just a block away in a garage...things like that.

Going to clubs where the main purpose is to meet the opposite sex is out of the question in my book.  Just like there are alot of women who would smack their husbands in the face with a frying pan if they found out they went to a strip club.  There are just certain requests that a spouse should respect.  If they don‘t want to do that, then they don‘t respect their spouse.

I never said a thing about her going to someone‘s house...I didn‘t say she couldn‘t go out with friends...she is just not to go to bars or clubbing.

I DO see something wrong with going to bars and clubbing.  She is married.  She isn‘t a 19 year old college floosy.

She wouldn‘t want me going to a strip club, which I have no desire to anyway, so I don‘t.

Besides...I didn‘t mind anything that she did before I found out she cheated.  You are defending someone who lost that priveledge...the privelidge of having my trust that is.

I guess you girls stick together.

I know you aren‘t attacking me...I respect your opinion.

I am damned if I do and damned if I don‘t.  So let me pose a question to you.  I don‘t like her going to bars or clubs because I no longer trust her.

If she really wants to go, and it is seen as treating her like a child by telling her no, then what do I do?

Do I let her go, sit at home like the good little husband while she goes off doing who knows what?  Then what do I do if she walks in at 3 or 4am?

That is not acceptable behavior for a married woman/man with children.

I treated her like an equal and gave her more love than I think any man ever gave a woman....and look where it got me.  I only wish I would have known about this years ago before my kids were born.

So obviously treating her as an equal and naturally respecting her freedom didn‘t work.  I was a nice guy and she took advantage of it...so I just took away that which she could take advantage of.

I‘m still a nice guy, and I bottle up my anger.  My wife and kid‘s do not see it...but she knows that I don‘t like her going out with the tramps she calls friends anymore.  She wouldn‘t let one of my friends in the door if I did this to her when out with them, that is for sure.

Ah, that is my kind of music...long live the 80‘s!!

I stopped watching MTV around 1991 when all that was on was stupid shows that had little to do with music, and nothing but hip-hop.

If you ever get it, there is a music station on TV called The Tube that is nothing but music and good music.  Most from the 80‘s too!

My favorite muppet is Pepe The Prawn.

My favorite line...its out of Muppets In Space..

"you tell him...and I will smack you...I will smack you like a bad bad donkey okay!"

I bet this guy thinks he will be young forever.

and he‘d better be careful...there are some guys in their 40‘s and 50‘s that could probably stomp a mudhole in him if he pushes it.

Like you had a substantive message when you came on here.

You tell a whopper of a story of stealing a slut from an older guy, and you have substance?  LOL.

I think the word "loser" describes you to a T.  Good grammar or not.

No no..not saying there is anything wrong with you.

Just wondered if you simply didn‘t "have it" for your husband and he went without because you had no desire for him.

I never said it was ok if you would have read my post objectively.

Did I or did I not say it was wrong of her husband?  I think I did.

And where did I say that the woman absolutely HAD to have sex with her husband?  I didn‘t say anything of the sort and you know it wv.  Your inability to read is starting to piss me off.

I asked a question of what is a husband who is denied suppose to do...I didn‘t say a damn word about a woman being OBLIGATED to have sex.

Geez....read the damn post before making snap judgements.

Now you are outright lying wv.  I never said a word about throwing my wife out if I don‘t get my way.  Why the hell do you lie like that?

I said if she wants to act like a college girl who is single and go out clubbing all the time while I stay home with the kids while she rolls in at 3am she can pack her bags.

Read the posts, quit your damn lying and quit saying things that I never said.

LOL....I never suggested a man has a right to sex.  I asked the question.."what is a husband suppose to do?"

If you think he is supposed to accept being denied, then say so.  I am looking for what a man is suppose to do if his wife never wants to have sex.

Like in my case, I am constantly denied, I don‘t fight, whine about it...actually I don‘t even ask for it anymore.  I just raise my kids.

But she wants another baby with me.  So she doesn‘t want to have sex with me anytime except when she wants a baby.  uh.....ok.

And again, you can‘t read.  I specifically qualified my statement in that post saying bars or clubbing.

Nowhere did I say she couldn‘t go and come as she pleased.  Nowhere did I say I check up on her...actually, I don‘t check up on her...I have better things to do.

Nowhere did I say anything of what you accuse me of.

And I don‘t care what it "means" to you.  You go off in other posts and accuse me of saying things I didn‘t say and doing things I don‘t do.

If you think that its ok for a cheating wife to keep acting in the same fashion as she did when she was cheating, then say so...but don‘t put words in my mouth and don‘t lie about me again.

Dig myself out of what hole?  Show me where I said it was a woman‘s obligation to give sex to her husband and show me where I said it is ok to force sex.

I even told one person that it was wrong that her husband did that.

So again, show me where I said those things were ok.

I see...so its ok if a woman denies sex with her husband, but its little boy games when a husband denies the wife.

Thanks for clearing that up.

In response to your paragraph of do we have good communication....yes yes yes yes, and yes to all of those things...that is, before i found out she cheated.  She had it all and chose to throw it away.

but your advice and reponses are very intelligent and to the point.  I take them to heart and appreciate them.

Ah...you just can‘t seem to read can you.  I didn‘t say you said I was a doormat.  I asked you if i should be one.

Geez lady...READ dammit!!!!

This should be good.

Please tell me...what is my role in why she cheated.

And she has done these things while we were married.  She probably has cheated...but the code of the women she is with is probably, don‘t tell anyone. 

I have just been a fool not to see it all these years.  I thought I was being a good husband watching the kids while she blew off some steam.  She probably blew off more than that.  What other reason would she have to waltz in at 3am?  I didn‘t see it because I was a gullible fool all these years.  That will not happen again.

I have no proof that she didn‘t cheat while out with the girls, thats because I had no idea she was a cheater and had no reason to suspect her until I found out.

And no, I am not doing to you what you do to me.  When I make a comment, it is in general.  My comments are questions...but you seem to think questions posed to you are putting words in your mouth...uh....no..they are questions I would like you to answer.

YOU, on the other hand, specifically ACCUSE me of saying things I didn‘t say and doing things I didn‘t do.

But if you can‘t read the post and quit saying I said things I didn‘t, then I am done with you.  You might want to take a look at ENG 101.

I didn‘t know lying about what i say and what I do is your idea of being "honest".

Open minded is one thing...lying about me is another.

By the way, how did I attack you?  The only thing I can see that I wrote that you might assume that is when I said you are pissing me off, or that you can‘t read because you told the forum things I have said that I did not.

You are probably right there about her witholding sex because she hates it that the ball is in my court, but she brought this on...not me.

The one thing I put my foot down on is going out to clubs or bars and with specific friends that I feel are just downright tramps that I do not want in my home.

Other than that, there is no checking up on my part, I don‘t follow her or question her everytime she goes somewhere.  The only thing that has ever happened is I got pissed at her when she walked in at 3am one time I did try to loosen my grip on the going out with the girls thing.  It seemed that I loosened up and she took advantage of it.  So yes, she needs to put the effort in, I can‘t do it all.

And don‘t get me wrong, I want to try to regain my wife, but I must admit...I stayed for my boys, not for her. Not saying that I didn‘t stay in some part for her hoping I can get over this, but it was mainly because I WILL be with my boys every day, not every other weekend.

As for the family therapist...I don‘t know...I tend to think they are nothing but quacks, and I have heard the horror stories of therapists putting the majority of the blame on the betrayed spouse and the burden of making the marriage work on the BS.  Is that nuts or what?

Don‘t even.  If you want to put me on a block...fine.  Because all you do is lie about what I say and do.

And to say I remind you of men that beat and rape you is another example.

Am I to sit here and let you get away with lying about me?  I suppose a man who defends himself in your eyes is a rapist.

What you posted there says it all about you and I no longer need to take you seriously.  You hate men and see whatever it is you want to see in them no matter how they truly are.

I did ask her...she always says she‘s just tired....I don‘t buy it.

But like I said, I‘m getting use to it....I don‘t ask anymore.  I find other things to keep me occupied.  I really don‘t care anymore.  I can take care of myself.

I think I‘m going to have to end this thread because it started to get off topic when a couple women in here accused me of saying it was ok to force sex when I never said anything of the sort.

This was suppose to be about lil_bit.  Hope she is doing ok.

I think alot of the nice guys don‘t bother asking anymore because of being turned down so much.

As for me, not being conceited here, I think I am a good-looking guy..not an adonis, but good-looking.  And I have been attracted to women that don‘t look like Jessica Simpson.  I don‘t even like women who are of the supermodel type.  Too damn skinny if ya ask me.

Ah the dating game can be frustrating...I‘m glad I‘m out of that era.

But your jerk didn‘t lose the relationship, he caused it. He is not a man.

And a diaper fetish??...wtf?  Question is, did you put one on him?

So I take it you will be an old maid the rest of your life then?

Swearing off men completely?

Exactly..THANK YOU!

I already said I don‘t stop her from doing anything. But she knows that I don‘t like her acting like a 19 yo college freshman.

So if she doesn‘t respect that and feels the need to make me stay home with my kids like she did in the past while I am sitting there like a fool, she will be locked out of the house if she comes home at those hours...and no, she doesn‘t carry her house key.

It amazes me that people think that behavior that helped spawn, but did not cause, cheating should be ignored.

She is a wife and a mother, she needs to act as such.  If she does not want to, she doesn‘t need to be either.

I NEVER said it was ok for a husband to force sex or to demand sex from his wife.  Never said it.  See you just lied.

If I said it..please provide proof.

You are a liar and a hypocrite for calling out Lorrie on this.  She may or may not be lying, but you definitely lied.

Setting ground rules and expecting your wife to act like a wife after she if found out to be unfaithful is NOT abuse.

If she wants to act like a 19yo college freshman, then she has no business being married or being a mother.

See...I do none of those things.  So you are barking up the wrong tree.

The only thing I do and I feel I have an absolute right is to set ground rules that she is to act like a wife.  She can go do whatever she wants, but if she returns to the lifestyle that spawns her cheating ways, I have the right to get pissed about it.

Or should a betrayed spouse be a fool and doormat for someone who has cheated?

Ah, now I understand.  You have a reading comprehension problem.

When I said "its not rape" it was in response to a woman having sex with her husband just to get him off her back.  It was in response to pity sex.

It was NOT in response to FORCING SEX and I DO NOT condone any such thing.  Never have never will.

You completely took it out of context and made it sound how you wanted so you can smear a man on here.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.

The question was making a point, but in no way saying its ok to force sex.

I put the question out there because really...if a man is constantly denied sex from his wife...what is he to do?  If he is constantly denied, and he goes downstairs and watches TV...doesn‘t push the issue...oh ya...thats forcing sex alright.  That was my whole point.

There are many men that go without...sure they may not like it, but not all men like one described in here keep nagging at the wife until they get it.  Some men just learn to live without and are miserable.

Only one person in here answered that with an intelligent reply as to what to do and it was refreshing to see someone not take a comment out of context.

In no way do I condone forcing sex...THAT is rape.  But thats not what we were talking about when this drew such venemous replies.  We were talking about a husband nagging until the wife gave in.

But you guys read into it what you want.

Wow.  Rhiannon. I really respect your opinion.  You are very intelligent.

No...LOL.  I am not being sarcastic or kidding.  You analyzed it and know where I come from.  You sure can write alot too...LOL.

Ok, I‘ll try to address everything above.

No, I am not abusive, I never have laid a hand on any woman, and I do not verbally abuse my wife. If anything, I try harder at this relationship than she does and she is the one that f#&@d it up.  You are right, there are a couple of women in here that are pinning a label on me and throwing words around like abusive and rape because I said that she is no longer allowed to go to clubs or bars.  I think that is a reasonable expectation of a wife that has cheated.  I do not watch her every move, I don‘t check on the computer for suspicious activity, I do not seek permission from here when she wants to go somewhere...about the only thing I ask her is, "are you taking the van".  I did tell her "no" one time when she asked me if she could go to a club with "the girls" one night because we agreed that she would not do that shit anymore.  If she would have said, "but I really want to go" I would tell her she can do what she wants, but that isn‘t what we agreed and is not going to help her case in making it up to me.

I never asked her what she did when she went out with the girls because then I trusted her.  I was happy to stay home with the kids so she could have some time to herself....actually...she expected me to stay home while she went out....oh...but according to some women in here...I am the controlling one.

And yes..because it seems like I am the one trying when I shouldn‘t be the one making most of the effort, I am angry most of the time...not openly angry with her...just inside.  I bottle it up pretty well.  I have talked to her about it saying that she needs to make more of the effort because SHE is the one that caused all of this, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

yes, when i found out she cheated..it was from a friend of hers that she really pissed off years ago...I confronted her and she admitted it because I had the goods on her.  I suspect she cheated during marriage too.  I mean really, when she cheated...she wasn‘t even around a bunch of other guys...so when she comes home at 3am from being out with some friends that I don‘t trust her out with...I think she did.

But that is irrelevant....whether she cheated while married, or cheated while engaged, it is still betrayal and I felt like she went into our marriage without her whole heart.  Betrayal does not have a statute of limitations and is not defined by a piece of paper saying "Holy Matrimony".

Needless to say, I feel I am justified when I said in this forum that if she goes out and does something I don‘t much approve of, meaning going out to clubs or bars and coming home at 3am, she can pack her bags.  Apparantly that pissed off alot of women that I would say that even though it is an activity she should not be engaging in because she is a wife, not a teenager anymore.

No, my children don‘t feel my unhappiness.  They are both under 6 years old, and when I come home from work everyday, I am greeted with yells of "Daddy!!" and it is the best feeling in the world.  They jump all over me and we wrestle for long time.  I shouldn‘t have to give that up.  So my kids aren‘t the only reason I am staying in this marriage, but they are the main reason.

And I realize that I do come off angry sometimes....but only because I despise cheaters.  I have never cheated in my life and I just don‘t understand it....and as far as I‘m concerned there is nothing to understand.

All I know is that she is the betrayer and it is her responsibility to bear a brunt of the effort in making the marriage work.  And if some people in here think that setting ground rules of not returning to the lifestyle that helps cheating happen is controlling, then that is pretty warped.  Its like saying, "she cheated...but we believe you should put up with anything she does that makes you uncomfortable."  Thats what I‘m getting.

anyway, this has become long winded...so I need to go back to finding people here that have been hurt and give them advice on what to do.  And sometimes that means telling the cold truth about things...not getting down on them, just calling it like I see it.

But Rhiannon...thanks for the reply, you have thought this through without taking anything out of context or pinning a label on me because you have been wronged by a man in the past.  you‘re a true woman.

Of course.  What you would do if someone sent you a picture is the right thing to do.  Nothing wrong with what you suggested at all.

My question about having opposite sexes in the emails would be..are they people you know?(rhetorical question, not directed at you).  I have women in my emails, but they are not of a personal nature....they are for work.  And my wife emails a guy we both know that is a friend.  Nothing wrong there.

But giving your email out to a guy you don‘t know that she met when he was "in town" and pretty much keeping it secret is another matter.

So you are getting rid of your car, walking everywhere you go, and choosing not to have kids?

Because that is the only thing that will fix the problem if there is indeed a problem.  If global warming is a fact, it is because of carbon dioxide released from a growing population.  What needs to happen if that is the case?  Create laws limiting every couple to having one child?

I do intend to watch it...but one thing bothers me about it...and that is Al Gore is the author.  He is no more an expert on the subject as he is on the internet....but alas...he created the internet didn‘t he?

But I digress...I still would like to see it though.

But in case I don‘t, what was it about this "documentary" that changed your mind?  What part of it did it for you and what evidence was there that swayed you?

Sweetheart...the pain doesn‘t go away because it is all too real and it hurts waaaay too bad.  I know.  And yes, you feel all alone when it happens.

8 times?  yet he says he won‘t do it again.  And I don‘t care what he says, there is no excuse for cheating...and even if there was, being bored is one stupid reason.  I don‘t care if your sex life together became stagnant, it is no excuse.

Nobody can really tell you what to do...but I‘ll just tell you what I would do if in your situation.

If you have kids together...then its your call and it is a very difficult decision.

If you do not have kids together, I wouldn‘t put up with this and divorce would be the first thing on my mind.  Others might be against this advice and they are not necessarily wrong...it is an opinion and there is no right or wrong.

I know you feel alone and my heart goes out to you.  So take what I said for what its worth and listen to some other opinions here and see which makes sense for you.  Advice isn‘t universal...it depends on the person and the situation.

I do know one thing...you need to crack the whip on him.  You need to let him know how hurt, betrayed, angry, distraught you are over this.  I always say once a cheater always a cheater, but if he has any soul to him, it may make him come around to at least not cheat again.  And no that isn‘t a contradiction of what i just said.  Cheating is like alcoholism...an alcoholic can stay sober and never touch liquor again, but they are still alcoholics and would still like to have that drink...they just make a decision not to.

Good luck and we know where you are coming from.

Or maybe she messed around with Ronald McDonald...LOL.

Now there would be a funny one...if I found out she cheated with old Ronald, I wouldn‘t be mad...I‘d have to die laughing.

bah...its ok.  I have thick skin.  If someone wants to try to make me out to be something I‘m not...thats their problem, not mine.

Oh...thats ok. If you want to make me out to be something I‘m not, go right ahead. I have thick skin.

So keep calling me names and trying to make me out to be some sort of rapist.  You don‘t know me and if you want to lash out, I don‘t mind.

Nothing you say will change who I really am.

No no..no need for defending yourself....no attacks here.  Like I said, I read it wrong.  I like what you have to say in these forums.

I quite agree that alot of nice women get passed over.  Honestly, if a woman was too good looking I wouldn‘t bother.  Not because I don‘t think I had a chance, but because people who are really attractive tend to be into themselves and are always looking for the bigger, better deal.  I know that isn‘t the way it is with all people that are mega-gorgeous, I just figured I wouldn‘t take any chances.    Wouldn‘t it be perfect if the nice ones could get together and all the players and cheaters wind up with each other?

So I never really heard your story...if you don‘t want to tell it, I understand, but what happened with your past relationship(s) that brought you here?  I know you know mine...I‘m just curious. 

Don‘t feel like a fool.  Love does strange things to people and being betrayed makes a normal, well rounded person do strange things.

I don‘t know how you really feel about this guy, but it sounds as if he is no good for you.  He is a rollercoaster ride and seems to want to come back to you when things are convenient for him.

I suspect the reason he strayed in his marriage is he is one of these men, and yes, there are women this way too, that can‘t handle a monogomous relationship and gets bored with the same person for too long.

Sounds like thats what he did with you.  Not your fault.

So you have no money and live at home with your parent(s).  The damage is done.

So now what?  The man left you with nothing...so you shed this dead weight, get back to working, and get determined to rebuild your life.  And just remember, someone who is married that is straying is doing so for a reason, and it isn‘t their spouses fault, it is a problem with the cheater no matter how much they try to justify it.

So get back in the game, stay away from married men, and I know you are hurting, but there are good men out there...just don‘t let your guard down.

Good luck.

*falling down in exhaustion*...Touche...Thank you!...geez.

I‘m glad someone sees it.  You Pandora and Rhiannon.  thanks for your comments.

And I agree, sex isn‘t everything in a marriage, but it is a big part, and not just for the sake of having sex...to me its about closeness and love. Shoot, if it were about gratification, then I don‘t need her for that.

Yes, there is a power struggle going on, I will say more from her than me.  And probably the reason is, and the only reason, is that she is not allowed to , because she agreed to it, go out to bars and clubs any longer while I stay home with the kids.  Yes I admit, I don‘t trust her, don‘t know if I ever will. She has to be the one to give more effort here if she wants to save this marriage, not me.

Yes, I said that there probably isn‘t anything she can do to regain my trust, but thats because she hasn‘t really done anything to try.  She agreed to the ground rules, but she doesn‘t want to stick with them.  That shows me her heart isn‘t in the right place.

Anyway...not wanting to get off on a tangent here....thanks for your words Touche.  I‘m glad someone sees what I was trying to say.

And also thanks goes to Pandora and Rhiannon.  You guys, I mean gals, are alright.

What made her cross the line?  Being fickle..pure and simple.  I was madly in love with her and would do anything for her.  Thats why I proposed and put a ring on her finger.  Never got jealous about who she is with or where she went because I trusted her.

So maybe being a nice guy is what made her cross that line. I think when someone in a relationship seems too good to be true, the other party with the weaker constitution takes advantage of that.

Anyway, about the clubbing...seems you and your married friends can obviously handle the nightlife atmosphere...my wife, on the other hand, cannot.

OMG Pandora, he actually said this to you?  My heart goes out to you.

Is he one of these superficial guys that if a woman puts on just 10 pounds that he is no longer interested?  Does he want a Barbie Doll?

My wife put on almost 20 pounds after our first child while I remained around 175 and still fit.  I found her just as attractive...actually, I liked it when she gained a little weight...she had back!

But I still cannot believe your husband said that to you...what on earth did you say in response to that?

Oh sorry...I typed it wrong...I meant he caused the relationship to be lost.

In other words he ruined it.....my bad.

So I have to take your advice and bankgirls eh?

Forget the fact that I take to heart the posts of women in here who were gracious enough to actually try and help, like Rhiannon, Pandora, and Touchebaby.

Just because I don‘t like the advice of bankgirl or you doesn‘t mean I am not taking some of these posts seriously.

Fact is, she cheated, I am trying to make it work..she isn‘t doing her part....yet I am the asshole to you two?  hmmm...interesting.

beach...I am truly sorry for what you went through.  do you mind me asking what he did to try to kill you?  If you don‘t want to talk about it, I understand.  I just can‘t fathom it.

And about being cocky...ya I realize rules are not hard and fast. Was he anything like Mark Wahlberg was in the movie Fear?  That even freaked me out how creepy it seemed.

When I left a fiancee long ago because I caught her cheating, I was the same way as you.  I felt I couldn‘t live without her.  It was too painful and yes, as a man, I cried alot.

The thing that helped me was getting out and dating again. Even though the first quite a few dates were just that, nothing serious, being in the company of other women helped me to forget her.

On the other hand, some people like to be completely single and alone after a bad relationship, but I think once you start dating again, the pain will start to go away.  Best way to forget about someone is to find someone else.

Ok...how about some jokes.

here is one...and remember, its just a joke.

What is the one food that significantly lowers a woman‘s libido and sometimes destroys it all together?

Wedding cake.

I think the problem here is there have been people who have said things and accused others of saying something that wasn‘t said or it was perceived wrong.  But that was directed towards the replies to people who are telling their story.

If you have a problem, I do not think you will get a bashing.

Besides, it is totally anonymous.

NO NO NO!!!  Don‘t you feel like a loser.  This guy is the loser.  He comes back to you when it is convenient for him.  He is using you.

Don‘t ever feel like a fool or a loser because some guy is jerk.  Its not your fault, it is his narcisstic attitude that is the problem.

There are men out there that will treat you with respect and decency. 

When, and I mean WHEN, you get back into the dating game, just don‘t give your heart away easily...keep your emotions in check until you are certain a particular guy is right for you.  Is there a chance another guy will break your heart?  maybe, but what is the alternative? ....living your life out as an old maid?

You will be fine.  Dating doesn‘t mean throwing yourself emotionally at someone...just have fun...get back in the dating game to have fun, not to find love.  And when you do that, you will find that person naturally..not because you are hell bent on getting into another relationship.

Trust me sweetheart, you will forget him in no time.

In addition to dating, spend alot of time with friends....go out, have fun.  I just caution about meeting someone at a bar or club.

No we don‘t.

Here is the thing.  There are a couple of women posting here that I feel don‘t care what a man‘s situation is.  He is called a crybaby for telling a story...he is told he has traits of an abuser because he gets a little miffed at being called things he is not.  Everyone here has been wronged in some way.  The only people I can see that deserve a good tongue lashing is someone who has cheated.

So to a small few here, a man gets much different treatment and advice than does a woman.  Notice I said a "small few" and not mentioning any names.  If it hits a nerve, then you know who you are.

But take for example, the poster named manslaughter.  And manslaughter, if you are reading this, this is not a slam.  I think you need a big hug.

She is very angry towards men and she has a reason to be angry I am sure.  She said in one post "men suck everywhere" among many other posts with some really down with men type of comments.  Now I understand her anger, but my initial thought wasn‘t to jump her case.  I understood she was angry and needed to vent.  And the people I mentioned above didn‘t say a word...they sympathized and didn‘t jump all over her for her comments, yet a guy telling a story of his betrayal and his frustration in dealing with it brought venemous replies. 

Anyway, didn‘t want to really get into that, but you are right Touche.  Thanks for the posts.

Pandora....things are going so-so...not going bad...but not fantastic.

I just try to keep myself busy and keep my mind off of certain images that float around in my head.  Its all I can do right now.  We are civil to each other, but for now that is about it. 

That is making an observation.  Wrath would have been if I said something like..."fuck off and die"....something along those lines which I never said anything of the sort.

And "calling it" like they "see it" is one thing.  Calling someone names and putting them down when they are seeking help is another.  She told me to "shit or get off the pot"...nothing wrong with that.  I don‘t have a problem with someone telling me to get off my ass and do something.  I do have a problem with being degraded. 

And no...I didn‘t admit to being controlling.  After finding out about her cheating, we both agreed that she would no longer make me sit at home while she goes out clubbing.  She asked one time if she went and yes.....I said no...because that was what we agreed.  I wouldn‘t have stopped her physically, but you don‘t cheat on someone, lay the groundwork for making it right, then welch on the deal.

And yes, if she returns to her partying ways, she can pack her bags.  I don‘t see anything wrong with that.  You want to call it controlling....fine.  I don‘t see anything wrong with forbidding your spouse to act like a single swinger.  And if partying is something she wants to return to, then she can leave.  Nothing controlling about it though.  She can make her own choice and do whatever she wants, but she will also need to face the consequences of her actions.

I don‘t need a partier in my life that MAKES me stay home with the kids while SHE goes out and does whatever she wants.....oh, but that isn‘t controlling....is it?

Of course...there is nothing wrong with saying that.  I didn‘t even mind when she told me to "shit or get off the pot"...it didn‘t offend me at all. I thought, she is correct there.

But for her to tell me to quit crying (whining and boohooing I believe are the words she used) and for Californiagirl to tell me to leave this site just because she didn‘t THINK I wanted to do anything about my situation...well gee...didn‘t sound very sympathetic.

And I‘d like someone to post where they told a woman to quit crying about their situation and leave the site as was suggested of me.

I‘ll be waiting for the quote on that one.

I‘ll answer each of these separately...do I take her:

1) clubbing:  no and she wouldn‘t want me to go with her for obvious reasons

2) dancing:  no, I don‘t dance..which is why I didn‘t mind if she went with friends while I stayed at home with the kids until she proved to me she can‘t be trusted

3) concerts:  yes, we have been to several

4) movies:  yes, quite a bit when we can get a babysitter

5) dinner:  yes..as a matter of fact we just went out Saturday

So as you can see, she isn‘t missing anything.  No I don‘t go clubbing or dancing, but like I said, she was free to go with her friends and I trusted her until she gave me a reason otherwise.

And even if she was missing a couple of those things..hell, even if she was missing all of them...its no excuse for cheating.

So see, she had it all...that on top of a husband who didn‘t mind staying home with the kids while she went out and had fun.  Little did I know the kind of fun she was having.

I hear what you are saying busty, but it seems the only time she doesn‘t "feel sexy" or tired is when it involves me.

She doesn‘t have a problem being "sexy" when she goes out with friends.

And I am more exhausted than she is, I work all day, go to the gym almost everyday, come home...clean the house, help get dinner ready, laundry...I am the one that gives the kids a bath...and yet I still have the time and energy for her.

And on that we can‘t certainly agree.

That is almost to the letter what I told her.  If she throws a fit about it, even though she agreed, I just tell her to do whatever the hell she wants...but there are consequences to her actions.

So actually, you and I would handle it in the same way.  She knows I want to keep the family together, but that I‘m not going to take any crap.

I totally agree.  Those are the very same things I am thinking.

We‘ll have to wait and see what happens.  Her trying to break the rules hasn‘t happened in about 3 months.  I think her friends that are of low moral fiber are kind of giving up on trying to get her out and live their lifestyle.

Bah...dont sweat it...threads evolve....the whole concern of hijacking threads is overrated.

Now...about bending you over my knee.....hehehe...j/k.

Its difficult...I know.  I was the same with someone long ago that I thought was the one.  It was to the point even after all she did, I still wanted her.  I was a basket case.

So how did I finally get over her?  Started dating again.  Sure after that I thought of here here and there, but I wasn‘t going out of my mind and I didn‘t care anymore.

It is frustrating still being attached to someone that can cause you pain.  Its normal.

Wrong...miniorities can be racist.

And didn‘t you say you were done with this thread?

Jim Carrey was on a talk show, can‘t remember which one, and joked that he is the father of AN‘s baby.

He said once he gets custody he will name her something appropriate and was thinking about "Meal Ticket".

Well, its getting damn old....I am a news junkie..and I mean real news...not this tabloid crap.

I cannot even turn to reputable news stations without seeing all this Anna Nicole garbage.

I want to know what is going on with Iran and N. Korea‘s nuke programs and politics in the US...not see day in and day out a woman who married an 80 year old man purely for his money.

You know what they call someone who has sex with someone else for money don‘t ya?

I‘d say no....you don‘t have a case.

Whether or not you don‘t want to be a father, you ARE in fact a father.  I understand in this case you may have been lied to, but the fact remains, there is a child that is yours.  Your flesh and blood...only anyone less than a man would be able to look into that sweet innocent child‘s eyes and say, "i don‘t want to be your daddy and I don‘t want to be financially responsible for you"

Now, if it were a case of being lied to, I‘d fight for custody.

Exactly right...but this story dealt with a child that was already born and the so-called "father" didn‘t want to pay to support her.

I can‘t imagine any man being so cold as to deny this to their flesh and blood..whether the woman lied to him or not.

I know alot of people would say Democrat simply because of Bush‘s handling of Iraq.

But you have to look past that...there are other issue.

First issue..the Democrats WILL raise taxes and lower the child tax credit. They say they are not and that all they will be doing is letting Bush‘s tax cuts expire, but don‘t be fooled...they think they deserve more of your money to waste.

I for one feel the money I earn is mine, not the gov‘ts.  yes, taxes are necessary, but the Democrats want more of it for programs that will not help me one bit and will be going to help those who don‘t help themselves.

So if you want a good amount more of YOUR money ripped out of your wallet and purses...vote Democrat.

If you believe you should be able to keep more of your hard earned money, vote Republican.

This one is easy...you have no children with this tramp...so dump her toot sweet on the spot.

If you stay you WILL regret it and she WILL continue to screw around on you.

So file for divorce and tell her to pack her bags....cuz SHE should be the one to move out.

How about men like that?  Well guess what...I am like that.

Kinda blows your mind doesn‘t it persona?

oops..never mind...saw that persona didnt say that...

But anyway, its too bad the good men and women can‘t find each other and the aholes and bitches can just have each other.

What a wonderful world it would be if that happened!

some people, men and women alike, like my ex-wife, just cheat because they are never satisfied with monogomy.

You got women who simply want to spread their legs for any hot looking guy regardless if they have a good man at home...and a guy that will stick his vienna sausage in other women not matter how much of a queen his woman is to him.

Sometimes its just that simple.

I despise anyone who cheats.

Nah...I don‘t think two women together are normal at all.   It doesn‘t do anything for me...especially since I don‘t know what a woman feels when another woman is pleasuring her...so why would it really turn me on?

Now show me a woman givin‘ a BJ...and WOOHOO!!!

All I can say is your wife is a fool.  Once a cheater always a cheater.  She took back a man that stuck his lil sprout in another woman.  And her "best friend"...I hope she dumped this so-called friend...and hope someday she comes to her senses and dumps you.

You and another cheater out there are made for each other...why don‘t you go find her?

I highly doubt everything is "better than ever" with you and your wife.  You don‘t know the mental shit you have exiled your wife to.  She will always be haunted by what you have done even if things with her seem hunky dory on the outside.

I feel sorry for her and she deserves better.

Ya, sure you didn‘t see the OW in that 3 month period.

And funny how you are trying to make sure she doesn‘t get revenge.  works for you, but what about her?

I‘m not saying revenge is something she needs to get...really she needs to just get rid of you.

But if there are no consequences to a cheater‘s actions, then they will just try to justify it to themselves and everyone else the next time they stray.

How about..."Whatever happens in Vegas...gets you thrown out of the house when you get home".

I like that motto better.

Bottom line is...REAL men don‘t cheat.

How can a man call himself a man when he is betraying the woman he supposedly loves?  And if he doesn‘t love her, well then man up and get the hell out of the relationship.

Its men like that who make it so damn hard for the rest of us.

he was being honest..ok...doesn‘t take much bravery to be honest in a forum like this though.

he can be here to tell his story.  But he is going to be met with some anger.  For women, I can understand them being angry with him and for obvious reasons.  For guys like me, it makes it hard because when alot of women think of men, THIS is the kind of guy they think of and it makes it hard for the rest of us that don‘t cheat.  So yes, that pisses me off.

As far as him and his wife finding happiness....he says their R is better than ever...sure sounds alot to me like he subconciously feels that him sticking it to another woman did wonders for his marriage.

And yes, no one is perfect...but lets be clear about something.  Cheating is not now and will NEVER be a MISTAKE.  he CHOSE to put his wee willy winky in between a pair of spread legs from some huss.  He didn‘t trip and accidentally ram her in the Y.

And no sheik...i‘m not baggin‘ on you for your words...I love ya!  You sound like a great and strong woman.  I just don‘t like it when people consider cheating a mistake...cuz its not.

If a cheating man isn‘t a REAL man what is he?  A little immature boy, no matter how old he is.

I wasn‘t saying that cheating isn‘t reality...just that a man with any principles won‘t cheat.

So it is my opinion that a real man won‘t cheat...if he does, then he is just an immature, selfish boy.

Just think of the notion of a father raising his son to be a "man"...not once would it enter a decent father‘s mind to say, "son, I‘m going to teach you how to be a man....which means, I‘m going to teach you how to betray your wife/girlfriend, and shit on the people that love you"

Get my drift?

Ladysheikmoon wrote:

solonow wrote: If a cheating man isn‘t a REAL man what is he?  A little immature boy, no matter how old he is. It‘s a good thing we‘re in the Agree To Disagree forum. I do not codone cheating but geez..then leave.  It is up to the person.  I will not let anyone put my husband down..that is the father of my children.

Well then I guess  you just have to take the lumps when they come.  Just don‘t let him play you for a fool again.

He cheated on you yet you still defend him.  Hey, thats fine.  Not going to bash you on that at all.  If he did it once, he can do it again.

But its just damn funny to me.  Its cheaters like that who make it hard for the rest of us who don‘t...we get called no good dirty cheating pigs on one end.....then we have someone who defends it on the other.....now I am thoroughly confused.

But I‘m not bashing you sheik...I like ya.  Again, you sound like a good woman.

Oooh....I like the venom in that post.

As a man, I too hate cheaters.  Can‘t stand them.  I also can‘t stand people who sleep with other people‘s spouses.

And then you have the OM/OW who say that they have no responsibility to the betrayed spouse...like that makes their actions any less deplorable and despicable.

As a man, I too hate cheaters.  Can‘t stand them.  I also can‘t stand people who sleep with other people‘s spouses.