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Hello there--I am a "first time caller".  Have been lurking for awhile but was convinced to move on over by my good friend.  Hey Lorrie--It is me, SAM!

Sounds like you have been busy straigthening out the Crush and I hope you are not giving Cakeman the time of day!  What a jerk! I still hate him and all the cheaters.

What is the update on Cakeman?

I kicked my cheating lying husband out in Jan after 18 years of marriage.

An amazing thing has happened:  I find myself actually interested in other men and can see myself dating again in the near future--after the divorce of course.

The problem is that I have never dated or been with anyone besides my husband so I feel less than confident around other men.  It seems I generally attract the semi- retarded bag boy type of men who rush up and hug me.

My question is this: How do I know if a man is interested in me?  How do I make someone notice me?  Keep in mind I have children and will not do the bar scene.  I work at a very small office and all the men are married and not my type any way.  I have thought about posting online but that is sorta scary.  I am tall (5‘10 and blonde) so I wonder if my height could be intimidating.  I go to church but everyone there is married.  I have a friend who is a lovely person who is never without a boyfriend and she says that it is all about sex.  I guess there is allot of truth to that but you can‘t really have sex with a guy you want to notice you while you are waiting in line at the post office.  ha ha

I would be happy just have a male friend--someone to email or do something with every other weekend when my children are with their father. Any feedback would be appreciated.

SAM

Thank you Slappy for your response. 

I am very cautious and careful.  That is why I was married so long--didn‘t want to jump to conclusions and had to have 100% proof of the other woman.  I guess I just feel retarded when it comes to other men since my experience has been so limited.  People tell me that I "shoot men down" when they do show interest.  I just guess I don‘t pick up on the fact they are interested. I probably would be scared to death if a man did act interested.

As far as the daschun, we have 2 mini daschuns.  They are so cute and protective and loyal.  The children and I love them.  They are perfect dogs for us and we feel safer having them because they are such good barkers.  I hope to try my hand at breeding them in a few months so maybe we will have some pretty puppies!

SAM

I just wish he would leave you alone.  Hasn‘t he heard of email?

As far as weirdo women, well ....they are weirdo.  Do not trust them.  In fact, I would make up some weird story for them to repeat so they would look stupid. 

FYI:  Casanova‘s attorney requested a trial date for next month.  We haven‘t gotten the first scrap of paper for discovery.  Guess it will have to be postponed.  Too bad......for Casanova!

SAM

Everyone---Thank you for all your kind responses and suggestions.  What will happen will happen.  Just need to focus on re-inventing myself and making sure my children do well.  I really don‘t want a boyfriend anyway right now--just would be a morale booster if someone did notice me. 

I appreciate your feedback.

Y‘all have a good day!
SAM

This is what I don‘t understand either--why not fess up and admit that he made a mistake?  Why pass the blame on to someone else?  If you weren‘t happy, then you weren‘t happy--don‘t try to make someone else responsible for this.  My husband (Casanova) had a girlfriend and was living essentially a double life while he was working out of town.  This went on for several months before I began digging and found out.  He was happy to have me at home with the children and the little honey on the side.  I think he would still be happy with this arrangement today.  Every phone call to me ended with "I love you" and every weekend he was home we had sex.  Yet when it all came down to it and he needed an excuse as to why he strayed he blames it all on me and says that ours was a loveless and sexless marriage.  WTF? Yet he also claims that he never had an affair and that I have made all this up.  I got the other woman on tape apologizing to me for getting involved with him (he told her he was divorced) and I have about 350 pages of phone logs showing the volume of phone calls he made to her house, work and cell phone.  Yet I am crazy and made this all up.  Deny Deny Deny.

If they would just say, "Yeah, you caught me.  I am sorry." instead of lying or shifting the blame we would all feel a little better.

Do y‘all remember the Eddie Murphy comedy routine in the 80‘s when the woman catches her husband in bed with another woman and the husband keeps saying, "it wasn‘t me".  She sees him with the other woman with very very own eyes but he keeps saying "it wasn‘t me" until she begins to doubt herself and she wants to believe what he tells her.  Finally he convinces her that it wasn‘t him.  Gosh, in the 80‘s this routine seemed funny--now it is pretty telling.

Deny Deny Deny.  Shift the blame and maybe no one will notice I was the one who messed up.  Whatever.

Sam

This is so true--especially the part about the children losing respect for the cheater. 

SAM

I had to listen to the tape I had of me talking to the other woman at least 20 times in order to convince myself that I was not crazy and that I had not made all this up.  I was really that brainwashed by him and for so long I believed all the other shit he told me.  It was hard for me to come to the realization that Casanova is a compulsive liar and a cheater.  I mean after all what we had was "special"--yeah, right!  They say hindsight is 20/20.  I think I looked back with binoculars because suddenly so many things got clear and some of the pieces fit.  So many things used to nag my mind every day--other little things he had told me that didn‘t make sense but now do.  He really is a liar and like Lorrie says if his lips are moving, he is lying.  I couldn‘t live with a liar (and it is against the law to kill--even liars--ha ha) so I kicked his lying ass out in Jan.  It was hard especially at first but I sleep good at night and now I don‘t have to worry what he is up to.  He better worry about me and most importantly he better worry about keeping his job since he needs to mail me another check tomorrow!

SAM

My husband said he was friends with the little honey in GA because she was having a rough time going through her divorce.  He was "counseling" her.  Good thing the state of GA doesn‘t issue a license to practice the kind of counseling he was "giving her".  Liar!

I think the husband is lying.  Something is going on.  Protect yourself.  Make him call her back with you standing there listening and have him tell her to leave him alone and then change phone numbers on his cell phone.  Secretly set up the bill online so you can monitor it.  Cell phone is what did in my Casanova.  I hate cell phones and I hate liars.

SAM

Regarding cell phones:  I HATE CELL PHONES!

My stbx husband was caught by cell phone records.  He would call her day and night at her home, her work and her cell phone.  I swear I don‘t know how he got any work done because he was on his cell phone 24/7 like some sort of teenager.  I noticed the calls when I looked at the bill and begged him to stop calling her--She is only a friend he said, but she will misunderstand I said--you are a married man.  2 more months went by and calls continued to increased.  I gave him every chance and the benefit of the doubt--after all he was counseling her through her divorce.  Nice guy that he is!  After a very big bill, I really examined the bill call by call and was very concerned.  He would hide his cell phone when he was home as well as acting weird as heck but I was able to find it when he wasn‘t looking and saw the most recent text messages he sent her and she had sent him.  I was horrified by what I saw but at least it confirmed my gut feeling.  What a liar!

He explained it all away.  I was crazy.  I had misunderstood.  I didn‘t see what I thought I saw.  I didn‘t do it............You name it. 

I guess my point is like what the others have said--listen to your heart and to your gut.  Do your investigating to get proof of what you feel.  With a cell phone you can get alot of proof too.  You can do reverse phone number lookups for free off the internet too.  You can find addresses.  You can print off  the call history and see who called who, where they were when they called and how long the calls lasted.  You can get a list of text messages sent and received.  I was told you cannot get the actual messages sent but at least you can get the history.  I think the last month I was with my husband he sent/received over 800 text messages to her. 

Sometimes I feel technology works against families and marriages.  Think about the trouble some people get in to with internet porn, cell phones, text messaging, etc.  It is so easy and cheap now to cheat!  I hate all the cheaters and I hate cell phones.

Y‘all have a good weekend.

SAM

I was born November 27, 1963 just days after President Kennedy was assassinated. 

Remember how the Nov birthstone topaz used to be so ugly?  When I was a kid it was a horrible yellow.  I used to hate my birthstone.   Now the topaz is sooo pretty.

Dear Lost,

If a friend were to tell you this story, what would you tell her?  I think we sometimes want to desperately believe that he would never cheat or do anything bad because what we have is "special".  I know I put up with a lot of crap for years because I believed his lies and did not want to admit to myself that he would treat me the way he really was.

I think you now have to think about how you can protect yourself and your family.  There has been alot of deceit on his part.  Can you trust him again?  Are you willing to try to make it work?  I couldn‘t.  That nagging suspicion and little voice in my heart told me it was time to cut my losses and move on. There is a lot to be said for peace of mind.

I certainly wish you well.  I am sorry this has happened to you.  I too was the primary breadwinner and the one who take care of things in my marriage.  My stbx husband was the one who got to play.  Wasn‘t fair at all.  Even with 2 incomes I struggled to pay the bills.  After all it costs alot of money to date other women.  Now the shoe is one the other foot.  He is the one juggling to make ends meet and I can account for every dime I have.  Like I said peace of mind is really good to have.

Good luck,

SAM

My husband‘s girlfriend didn‘t know about me.  When she found out, she dumped him and later the same day I dumped him.  It was a very bad day for him!

I have a friend who fell in love with a married man.  She is a very lovely and smart person and she knew better.  He told her over and over he was leaving his wife but of course when my friend gave him the final deadline to either file for divorce or end their relationship, he chose to stay married.

I don‘t think married men ever leave their wives.  It is the wife who kicks their butts to the curb.  I don‘t understand either why a woman would want another woman‘s man.  I don‘t think it money, though.  Maybe it is just for the sex?  Excitement?  I have gone on some of the other support group sites for adultery and the fact of the matter is that none of them seem to be very happy being the other woman. 

Interesting thread!

SAM

There are too many "coincidences".  Something is going on and in your gut you know it.  I found out that my husband had a girl friend through his cell phone records too.  It was the last straw for me and I told her that she could have him.  I am pretty sure they are together now.  I wash my hands of them.  She did not know he was married until I told her.  They can have each other.  I do not want a liar and a cheater and she has been warned so good luck to her.

You have to decide what you will do with this suspicion you have.  He will deny deny deny everything if you confront him.  If you do nothing and choose to ignore this, then you might be like me and wrestle with the feeling something is not right.  First thing in the morning and last thing at night I would mull this around in my mind.  It was maddening. 

Making a decision is the hardest part.  I agree with the others to gather more information but even if you talk to the other woman and she admits something is going on, he will deny everything.  That is what happened in my case.

Good luck to you,

SAM

Maybe I am naive when it comes to men but I would love to know why a man shows allot of interest in a woman and says he will call the next day but never does.

I met a man last week.  Had lunch.  Talked several times over the phone.  Received several e-mails.  Last time we talked Wed night he said he would call me the next day to decide what we would do over the weekend.  Thurs came and went no call.  Fri came and went no call.  Heard nothing over the weekend.

Why not be honest and just say he is not interested rather than just drop off the face of the earth?

You are all right of course.  But I guess what surprised me was how aggressive he was and how he pursued me and then bam! nothing.  He started this--not me.

I never called him and never will but it would have been nice for him to have sent me an email at least to tell me he wasn‘t interested any more.  He presented himself as being a man of great faith too so that added to my confusion.  I should have not believed everything he said.  I guess I really do not understand men!

It just confirms what I had thought anyway--that he was way too eager and too smooth for me. He sells real estate so he is a smooth talker.   Out of my league right now.  Anyway, I need to practice date some shy men first to build my confidence.  I want to be the pretty young thing!

Thanks for your insight.

There was a sequel written to Gone With the Wind but not by Margaret Mitchell.  It was written long long after her death.  In this book, if I remember correctly they did get back together.  I did not care for the sequel very much.

I personally do not think they got back together.  But that is me now as a 40 year old woman.  If you had asked me when I was 20 I would have said yes.  I am not so starry eyed now!

Interesting question, Lorrie!

Lorrie, I filed my taxes too as Head of Household with turbotax.  Did it all by myself and I got all the deductions too.  I am getting back so much money!  Best part is I don‘t have to share it with DA (dumb a@@)  ha ha

I think I should get divorced every year!  I am loving it!

Wow--thanks for all the responses.  Lots of good insight.  Apparently I am not the only person that has had this happen to me.

It hurt my feelings at first but I am over it now.  Lesson learned.  Men are like trains anyway.  There is always another one coming along.

I met another man this week and while he is very nice I did not feel that instant physical attraction.  Probably a good thing.  I am pretty sure he likes me allot more than I like him and that is good!  And so far he has done what he said he would--called me when he said he was going to.  Very attentive which is nice.  Now I am feeling the shoe is on the other foot--how will I let him down easy if it doesn‘t work out?

Life is not easy is it?  But it sure is damn fun since getting divorced!  I recommend it highly.  ha ha

HA HA

I hope she breaks his heart and he is miserable.  Payback is a bitch!  Just you don‘t fall for his sob story.  He is on his own now.  Let HER and his mother worry about him. 

How fickle he is!  Aren‘t you glad he isn‘t your problem any more?  Don‘t you dare feel sorry for him.  We certainly don‘t.

I cannot wait to watch the OW eat my stbx DA (dumb @ss) up.  It is going to be sooooo good!  I hope she is as demanding as I was good to him.  Should be very interesting to watch and oh, life is good.

SAM

I didn‘t fight for my lying cheating sorry husband.  In fact, I told the OW she could have him.  Why she would want a liar is beyond me because he not only lied to me but also to her.  So, she has been warned and I do not feel sorry for her.  His cheating and lying will happen again but just not to me!

My husband denied everything.  Even now and he is with this woman now.  I am crazy and made all this up.  He told me that all he did was hold hands with her.  You know 40 year old men stop at holding hands with women they work with--ha ha.   It took a $650 cell phone bill for me to figure out something was going on.  He was "counseling" her through a difficult divorce and was just a "friend".  Hope he gave her some good divorce advice that he could use himself!

They will look you straight in the eye and lie.  Go with your gut feeling.  Ask yourself, if a friend told me this story, what would you advise her?  Would you tell her that her husband was lying to her?  We always want to believe them because we love them and I know I believed the most ridiculous stories.

Forget about being someone else in a previous life, I feel like I have a new life NOW since being divorced.  Talk about before and after!  I was miserable in my past life while being married to DA (dumb @ss) and just didn‘t realize it.  Thank god I have a new life now!

Maybe I was Marilyn Monroe in a previous life.  She died shortly before I was born.  She was so pretty but not very lucky with men.  Sad life really. But very sexy.  I think she was a hell of a lot smarter than she let on too.  Feme fatale.  Wouldn‘t mind being a little more like that myself--except for the sad life part.  I am very happy now.

Go with your gut feeling.  It won‘t lie to you.  They will.

My former spouse called her all the time--cell, home, work and had fake names on his cell phone in case I ever got my hands on his phone.  She was going through a divorce and he was "counseling" her.  I doubt you have to go to school to learn the type of counseling services he was providing!  ha ha  And he kept misplacing his wallet and would "lose" his wedding band and then find them a few days later.  Weird shit like that happened all the time. 

Of course I was paranoid, crazy and made all this up.  He is the victim in all this, you know.  He has been misunderstood and made to look bad and  like a cheater when really they were just friends.  I guess that is why they are still "friends" today.  I made sure all his family knew her name so when they met her later on they would know she was such a good "friend" to my husband.

I think you know what your boyfriend is really up to.  I am sorry.

In my experience, my cheating husband would deny, deny, deny even when the evidence was overwhelming and even when I confronted the OW who confirmed everything.  Be ready for the cheater to throw the blame back on you--you don‘t trust them, why would you think that, you are crazy, too jealous, etc.  They will find a line and stick with it until they are blue in the face.  I read text messages he had sent her which were written proof and he said I must have misread them.  I was "confused".   I spoke to her myself and he said he didn‘t know why she would tell me what she told me--she was "confused".

I am no longer "confused" and no longer with that DA cheater.  She is however still with him and probably will become "confused" herself one day.   I have no sympathy for her.  She was warned.

Gosh, another cheating husband caught by the cell phone bill.  I am sorry. 

Your story could be mine except my stbx put the spin on it that I was crazy and that there was nothing between them.  That they were friends and just held hands and that he was counseling her through her divorce.  How could I not trust him.  Ok.  Whatever.  He would talk to the children and I  for about 7 minutes each day but spent hours on the cell phone talking to her at her work, home and cell phone. Same 3 numbers over and over and over.  What an idiot to not think he would get caught. 

You will have to decide to do what you will do.  Either way will be hard because that trust has been broken.  My former spouse swore up and down that he did nothing wrong but I looked at it this way--even if he did nothing wrong, would I want to be with such a DA (dumb ass) whose actions were so stupid and incriminating that I could only assume he was cheating?  Cheater or idiot--either way he was gone and I have so much happier since.  Goodbye!  And guess what?  They are still together so I am thinking they have moved on from the hand holding stage.  What do you think?

Good luck to you!
SAM

I plan on having surgery and soon once I figure out how to pay for it or finance it.  I had 2 c-sections and also weight loss surgery.  My stomach actually doesn‘t look too bad considering and I keep a tan and I think that helps but I want it to be more toned.  What I really would like to have done are my breasts which are much smaller than they used to be and of course not near as perky as I would like them.  And I would like to have my eye lids done too which I think insurance would pay for.  Maybe I can find a surgeon who would do all this at one time and give me a good rate?

When and if I have this work done, it will be for me.  It would make me feel more confident and more sexy.  Even if another man did not see me naked again, I would still want to do this because it would make me feel better.  Of course the man who sees me naked now thinks I look good like I am!  Got to love that!

But the mean side of me will just laugh when DA (the ex) finds out I have all this work done and will be looking oh so pretty now that I am not with his lying cheating ass any more.  Divorce really does make you pretty!

SAM

You are right, Lorrie, I would have slapped him.  Well, made him apologize for being rude at the least.

I think society as a whole has lost manners and people do not know how to talk to each other any more.  Case in point, DA called me yelling at me the other night over something stupid (imagine that?) and I told him the cell connection was breaking up and hung up on him.  Had to do this 3 times before he finally got the hint.  ha ha  Next day when he called again, he was real polite.  Of course he wanted something but he asked real nice!

SAM

Lorrie, we could never thank the OW enough for taking trash like that off our hands. We didn‘t know it at first but they actually did us a favor.   I actually feel sorry for the woman who has my DA now.  She has no idea what she is in for.  My kids tell me that she is not that pretty either, kinda chubby, short and has a huge fat ass!  Opposite of me since I am so tall.  I have to love that.  I have nothing against big bottoms myself--wish I had more of a bottom--but I have to laugh.  Believe me, he could not win a beauty prize himself so she is getting the short end of the stick.  He still lives in the ratty trailer with no cable driving the piece of shit truck with no a/c eating those ramen noodles. ha ha  There is a country song in there somewhere.  She transferred to the same city where he is living and she bought a house so I am sure they will get married soon and he will move in with her and she can begin the fulltime job of taking care of him.  I resigned from that job Jan 06.

SAM

I have always heard that men fall in love with the woman they find attractive and women become attracted to the man they love.  I think there is so much truth to that.

I believe people cheat not because necessarily of what their spouse looks like but how the other person makes them feel.  Think about Christie Brinkley or Irma Thurman.  In my case, I think my husband did not get all my attention any more and the OW fed his ego and made him feel good.  I just did not or could not or would not adore him like she did.  Hard to compete with adoration!

I have seen it myself time and time again that the OW is not more attractive than the wife.  Actually I think the wife gets much more attractive after the OW takes the husband off her hands.  I know that is true in my case.  Divorce definitely makes you pretty! 

SAM

I don‘t miss my inlaws at all.  Not having to deal with them or the drama associated with HER has been another perk of being divorced.

When we got married, she never smiled at all the whole time.  Runied all the pictures and the video.  As a young bride, I was heartbroken and cried.  When we went to rehearsal dinner, she complained that her son/my soon to be husband wasn‘t paying enough attention to her.  Everyone heard.  When my daugher was born, she got mad and left in a huff because everyone paid me and the baby more attention.  WTF!

The horrible birthday and Christmas gifts I have received. I have gotten free items you get when you buy another item so many times I cannot count.  She kept the good item and gave away the freebie.  Not just once but all the freaking time!  The last Christmas I was with her son, I got a robe she bought from the thrift store that was missing a belt.  When I was fat, she bought me clothes too small.  When I got thin, she bought me clothes way too large.  I dreaded getting gifts from them because they were so awful and because I was always expected to make such a fuss over the awful gift.  They have more money than god so I do not know why they are so cheap.

I feel bad for my daughter because my former mil says things to my daughter that drives her crazy and hurts her feelings.  Like she has big feet or asks if she has started her period yet.  Buys her funky t-shirts from the thrift store and makes her wear them.  My daughter is 11 and a bit sensitive about these things.  Hello.  Next time I am marrying an orphan.

SAM

I vote for Matthew McConaughey.  He is quite yummy and I love his voice.

Lorrie, go back "home" and check on the good news on LD.  Things are progressing nicely and quickly for her.  Just wanted you to know!

SAM

I have trust issues--obviously.  I met this man I like allot in March through an internet dating site.  Lately things have gotten more intense and it seems like he really likes me but he has not taken his profile off the web.  This annoys me to no end.  He tells me he is not seeing any other women.  He changed his child‘s visitation weekend rotation to match mine.  He is planning a mini-vacation out of state for us next month while my children are with their father.  He has even offered to pay for me to have some plastic surgery work I want done (dummy me said no but then he said don‘t say no so quick because we do not know where our relationship is heading). He seems unhappy if I am not available to see him every time he wants to see me.  He has asked when I am going to introduce him to my family and friends.

When I met him I told him I was not looking for a long term relationship that would end in marriage.  Just fun.  Now I am thinking that was a mistake but feel that I do not have the right to change the terms of this relationship so easily.   How do you know if a man likes you for more than just "fun"? Do actions speak louder than words or in this case other actions like still having his profile up?

Please tell me your thoughts because I am truly retarded when it comes to the male species.  I just don‘t want to be the temporary almost girlfriend until he finds someone online.

SAM

To answer your question, AimHigh--yes, yes, yes!

To Lorrie: love the cake.  I made one very similar for my divorce party except I had a chocolate cake and used strawberry jam for blood.  Divorce parties are great!  We had a blast and a half.

He is a bit lonely maybe but he is just ahead of me in the game in so many ways.  He makes so much more money than me, has a much nicer house, his children all but one are grown and he is a bit older than me.  He is very confident and I find that extremely attractive.  All he needs is a new wife to move right in--ha ha.  I really think that might be what he really wants.  I don‘t know. 

Men drive me crazy and I will never understand them at all.   I guess I am going to wait and see and make no promises either way and just enjoy my time with him and see what happens.  I am enjoying myself seeing him so I do not want to stop doing that at least not right now.  I just don‘t want to be played for a fool again.  But what will happen will happen.  I guess it is what it is.

SAM

Thank you for all your responses.

About the plastic surgery, he knew I had already decided before I even met him to have some work done.  In fact I have a consultation today with the surgeon and I have already decided that when I have work done I will pay for it myself.  I will have to borrow the money from the bank but it is worth it for me.  I wouldn‘t feel right about him paying and I would not like to feel unequal or beholding to him in any way.

We talked over the weekend and I saw him and I feel better.  He told me that he knew immediately when we first met that I was not the type of woman who was just out to have "fun" and with no emotional connection.  He says that he feels he in the same boat as me emotionally--that he has strong feelings for me.  I feel like he is sincere.  He said that he wants to take things slow and lay a good groundwork for the relationship.  He said he would introduce me to his good friend next weekend and anyone else I wanted to meet.  He said that I had already met his youngest daughter and that he never introduced women to his children before so soon.

I did not bring up the website thing.  If he can find a nicer, sweeter, prettier woman than me, let him.  ha ha.  I just need to be more confident within myself and we all know that is sometimes hard to do after a divorce.  I will back off a little too as I do not want to appear needy.  I feel better anyway and plus that is just not attractive!  What will be, will be.  I do enjoy his company and I just need to enjoy the right now and not worry about the "what ifs".

Thanks Ladies again.

Why get married at all?  Just live together.  Then you would not have to worry about a prenup.  Or would you?

I think I would be offended by the request to sign a prenup.  Sorta takes the romance out of things.  It would make me feel like he doesn‘t trust me or think the marriage will last.  But then again I personally do not have allot of assets.  If I won the lottery tomorrow and decided to get married, I would probably consider us both signing something.

Eventually I don‘t think people will get married anymore.  What do you think?

SAM

I am getting some regular "sugar" now and it is very nice.  I remember how different and exciting it was to kiss another man other than DA.  Kissing is what I missed the most too after I seperated from my husband.  Hell, I had been missing that for years so him leaving didn‘t really make that much of a difference.

And sweet talk, OMG!  That is the stuff to live for.  The build up is incredible.  I love sweet talk.  I never got that when I was married.  Just another reason not to ever get married again!

Sunny, I live in Alabama and I know a Kikki who looks like a man too.  She teaches but not in the public school system.  Weird.  Did you go to school in Alabama?

I can understand the feeling of being "replaced".  I feel like I was replaced before I even seperated from my husband.  He had her already lined up before I knew there was a "her".  The children have met her and when they go to their father‘s for the weekend, he always includes "her" in their fun plans.  One big happy family!

BUT all is not well in paradise.  The children tell me that they fight constantly.  Same stupid shit that he and I used to fight about.  Only she does not give in or accomodate him like I used to.  I thought it was just me that couldn‘t get along with him--apparently it is other women too.  I hope she just eats his ass up and treats him as mean as he used to treat me.

Karma is a big mother f-ing bitch.  I can‘t wait to see what happens.  You should sit back and watch too.  It is going to be such a good show!  He will get his and hopefully by the time he does, you will be so happy with your new life you won‘t even care.  Won‘t that be wonderful?

When I look back at how far I have come since Jan 5, 2006--the day I kicked my husband out--I am amazed.  I am such a different person now.  I am stronger, more confident, a better friend and sister, more attractive, happier and much more satisfied with life.  I was truly heartbroken and miserable for about 8 months and never thought I would get over DA.  Never thought anyone would ever want me again or that I would ever be happy again.  I love my new life now and feel I have been given another chance.  I got to start my life over at age 42. It is truly amazing!

For those of you who have come out the other side, what have you learned about yourself?  How have you changed?  What are you most proud of?  What words of encouragement would you give to others?

I don‘t think I would really have any kind of relationship one way or the other with her. 

Right now my children have been introduced to their father‘s girlfriend and they spend quite a bit of time with her and her boys when it is their father‘s weekend.  At first I hated the idea of another woman being around my children but then I realized that this woman was being kind to my children, that they liked her and that she probably had a hell of a lot more sense than DA anyway and would take better care of my children than he does.  I actually feel better about the children being away since she is around to help supervise them.

DA and his little honey from GA will marry soon.  I don‘t see me, DA, or her ever being best friends.  DA and I don‘t talk now as it is.  I have nothing against her though although she was told he was a cheater liar pig.  She was forewarned and so be it.  I will be friendly if I ever see her but that is about it.  I just hope she will continue to be kind to my children.

Good advice.  What is that old saying, "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck"?

My stbx struck up a friendship with another woman who he was "counseling through a divorce", "he didn‘t think she was particularily attractive", was "friends with her husband", and "just held her hand one time".  Sure.  How many 39 year old men are happy to stay at the hand holding stage?

He swore up and down that nothing ever happened despite the $575 cell phone bill or him taking that "temporary" position in GA to be closer to her or her telling me that they had a relationship.  The way I looked at it was even if he had done nothing wrong and did nothing that crossed the line, he was so stupid and thoughtless in his actions that a reasonable person could assume he had been cheating.  Cheater or idiot--I was done!

Listen to your gut.  It is rarely wrong although be prepared for him to tell you that you are crazy or paranoid or jealous or just won‘t trust him.

I started dating again in February.  Big big big step for me.  You have no idea.  I went out with several men and then for awhile was juggling 4 of them at one time.  I was having a blast and was acting like a teenager for about 3 months.  I enjoyed the male attention and having fun again after being in a marriage for 20 years. What an ego booster.   It was very heady but allot of work--hard to keep up with who is who, etc.  I soon found that I liked one man more than the others and have pretty much been seeing him the past month or so exclusively.  I do not want to get married again any time soon but I have developed strong feelings for this man.  That is probably a mistake.  I just can‘t help it though.  I have always been a one man woman and I realized that even when I was seeing those 4 men at once.  It is just not for me.  But the attention was fun!

The man I am seeing now is nothing like my former spouse.  They are complete opposites in so many ways.  I find that refreshing.  I am done with pretty boy prissy pseudo-intellectual selfish bullies!

Technically I am still married.  I filed for divorce on Jan 5, 2006 and have signed what I thought were final papers Oct 06, Jan 07 and then May 07.  I have been told that DA finally signed final papers too and that we are just waiting for the judge to do his thing to make it official.  Maybe by the end of the month?  A girl can only dream.

It probably was not a good idea to date while seperated.  I know that.  But I was ready and a bit lonely and I could not have been any more divorced in my heart even with the official papers.  And plus I have been very discreet.  Well, sorta!  ha ha   The man I have been seeing knows what is going on too--I never kept that secret from him.

Maybe I am just jaded in some ways but I guess I doesn‘t bother me to not know everything about the man I am seeing.  I sorta compartmentalize my life these days too since my children have not yet met this man.  I see him when I can see him but we do not see each other every day.

When I married, I married young and married my best friend.  I thought I knew all his secrets and thoughts and inner workings but I didn‘t.  I didn‘t know he was a good liar and an accomplished cheater.  It was really only until he wanted to get caught and to get out of the marriage that I realized who he really was.  I didn‘t like him either--ha ha.

It is what it is what it is.  We all have some secrets we don‘t share.  And I think with a little age and the experience of heartache we are less willing to open up.  At least that is how I am now.

Could this phantom lover you talk about be married or involved with someone else?  What exactly do you mean by privacy?  Have you ever been to his house?  Do you know where he lives or works or anything like that?

Took a year and half but I am divorced.  As of 7/10/07.  I don‘t feel sad.  I don‘t feel happy.  I really don‘t feel anything.  That is probably good.

For a long time I have been saying--after the divorce is final I will do this or do that....  Maybe using it as an excuse.  Now it is time to get my ass in gear and get things moving.  Have been painting my house this past weekend.  Will put down a new floor hopefully next week.  I will have some "work" done next month and no, my friend is not going to pay for it.  I am.  I am going to be so pretty!

 Look out world--here I come!

I am so lucky.

SAM

To answer some of your questions, I was married 19 years.  Found out about her by looking at the cell phone bills.  A $575 bill was a big clue to me.  ha ha I called her and found out that he had told her he was already divorced.  A liar for sure.  They broke up for awhile but apparently he sweet-talked his way back.  They are together now--good luck to her!  I sorta dragged out the divorce for awhile because my sister was my attorney and it did not cost me anything and I wanted to punish him plus he had agreed to pay me more during the seperation than I will get now that we are divorced.  Then I got tired of being in limbo and wanted to finish it up in Jan and then he dragged it out.  I think to avoid paying me what he owes for medical expenses and other bills.  He truly is broke now!  He will remarry soon because he needs her income.  I predict by the end of the year.

So, I am glad that it is finally said and done and I am counting the days until he pays me what I am owed.  Probably will have to take him to court to collect but that is ok.

I will have some plastic surgery work done on the 28th Aug.  I am so excited!  I am going to get a tummy tuck, breast lift and augmentation.  I am going to be so pretty!  I borrowed the money from the bank on a signature loan.  My "friend" offered to pay for it but I just can‘t do that.  I do not want to be beholding to him.  2 years ago when DA and I were together, we couldn‘t even get a credit card because of his bad credit.  Things are so much better for me financially than when we were married.

I am so lucky!  Best part is that I don‘t even care about DA any more.  I never thought that would happen or that I would be happy.  Never even think about him except to pray he keeps his job.  Wish I had gotten divorced years ago.

Thanks for asking.

SAM

Red, your post just makes me sad.

Makes me wonder if a man is ever happy with just one woman and if there is in fact true love.  The older I get the more I know that is a fairy tale.  I think men can compartmentalize their lives much better than women can but the older I get I know I am getting better at that too.  Maybe after you get hurt, you just don‘t care or love as much.

I don‘t think my grandchildren‘s generation will even bother to get married. 

SAM

Yup!  This one and the last 3 too.  What a loser!

Meandnotyou,

I don‘t know.  Maybe she will wise up and not marry him. She has been nice to the children and that is all I care about.

I just cancelled his health insurance coverage--ha ha.

Lorrie--I‘ll have my boyfriend take his picture!  ha ha

Busty, OMG I laughed out loud when I read your solution for her to fuss at him until he cleaned the house top to bottom.   That is a win-win solution.   Now that is how a woman thinks!

SAM

What you are dealing with--the lack of trust--is one big reason for why I filed for divorce.  I just couldn‘t deal with not being able to trust him and how that made me feel and who I was becoming.  I was not me any more but someone else.  Someone I did not like very much.  Of course he also was a liar and a cheater and lied straight to my face and denied everything even with proof so that might have been other reasons I filed for divorce too. ha ha

I think it is very important for a woman to respect a man.  Maybe more important than if she loves the man.  I lost all trust and respect for my former spouse.  But I found both respect and a better appreciation for myself since seperating from him so I guess it worked out well for me.

Good luck to you and I am sorry you are still dealing with these feelings.  They don‘t just go away and you just don‘t get it over it.  Don‘t let anyone tell you otherwise.

SAM

One night long ago when I thought I was happy and happily married, DA asked me where the mouse traps were.  I told him and he set one in the kitchen and came to bed.  Did you see a mouse I asked?  I am terrified of mice.  Trying to calm me down, Nah, just think I saw something, he said.    2 seconds later there is this big WHAP! from the kitchen.  We go to look and nothing.  He resets the trap.  I am now terrified.  I am laying there thinking of evil rodents and I see something move by the door of the bedroom.  It is huge and slow and hairy.  WTF!  I start screaming to DA who is snoring away.  He jumps us and throws MY robe over it to catch it.  I am terrified of this monster rat.  He picks it up and looks at it and it is not a mouse or a rat but a baby possum.  We have a good laugh after it has been put outside safely away from me but what was really funny was when DA said "I thought that was the biggest mouse I had ever seen in my life".  The DA was too dumb ass to realize the trap was too little to catch something that big.  

Lorrie, sometimes men do suck.  And what does a girl have to do to get some flowers?  Maybe that should be a whole ‘nuther thread.

SAM

ps.  Now I really AM happy and unmarried.  Wonder what changed?  ha ha

I am scheduled to have some work done Aug 28th.  I will get a tummy tuck, breast lift and silicone implants and the doctor will try to place them under the muscle.  I am so excited! 

SAM

I have never understood why a woman would poach another woman‘s husband or cheat.  I hate liars and cheaters and while I was married a long time and not particularily happy, I never even looked at another man.

I think it is the thrill of the chase.  Having recently started dating again, I found the sweet talk and the attention very heady.  But I quickly found out that what is promised and what is delivered can be 2 totally different things!  And I think people might get bored.  You could eat steak and potato and cheesecake every night and after awhile you would want cheese toast.  I don‘t know.  Some people have no sense and seem to throw happiness away with both hands.  They are just fools.  And plus there seems to be no consequences for acting badly either.  The courts don‘t care about adultery and some people seem to think they can get away with their good looks and charm.  In the past they have gotten away with what they want and think they are entitled to do whatever they want even if it might hurt someone else.  No accountability.

I just wish people would be honest.  If someone is unhappy in a marriage--say so--don‘t bring in another person to complicate things.  If my former spouse had filed for divorce instead of cheating I wouldn‘t have hated him so much for so long.  My hatred did not hurt him--he was oblivious and in love--but it hurt me.  It is hard to trust again.

I am sorry this has happened to you, NewGuy.  I hope one day you find a very nice woman. 

SAM

I am sorry.  You are going to feel really bad for awhile.  You will lose weight because you will be too upset to eat and you won‘t be able to sleep because your mind will be racing.  You will cry and cry and then soon you will get good and pissed at him and start to fight back and you will feel a little better.  It is a shock at first but I promise there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Surround yourself with people who love and care for you.  Have no contact with him any more and when you do have to talk to him do it over the telephone and keep it all business.  Be prepared for him to throw all his shit back on you and blame you and tell you that you are crazy and psycho and that you made this up.  Liars and cheaters always do that.

I was married 19 years and married the only man I ever dated or slept with.  I was devestated when I found out about his extracurricular activities.  I had always been so sweet and caring and took care of everything and been the one to hold down the job and take care of business.  I know he had to be surprised when I did not let him slither back.  He might not have liked me but dammit he respects me now.  I made it known that the next week after I threw him out and changed the locks I bought a pistol. 

You will come out of this stronger.  You will like the new you and you will find all kinds of freedom.  I love my new life.  I got to reinvent myself at 43.  And I was convinced no one would ever want me either but that is not true.  I have found a very nice man who is so different than DA it is scary.  Try to do something nice for yourself and your children right now and be with people who love you.  Then get good and mad.  I would rather be mad any day than cry!  Post again soon.

SAM

I love the saying---living well is the best revenge.  This takes some effort at first because all I wanted to do was curl up and die.  It must kill the cheaters that we go on and look so good and live so well and are so happy without them.

I have also found this to be true:  Divorce makes you pretty!  Not to brag but never have I looked so good and had so much attention in my entire life.  It is amazing what losing 225 lbs in one day can do for a girl! 

SAM

There were 3 episodes when I thought my former spouse was cheating:

1.  A man totally destroyed my husband‘s vehicle for "no apparent reason".  Hmm.  I bet this man found my husband in bed with his wife.  I believed DA when he told me he did nothing wrong and this man was crazy.  Too bad he did not shoot DA there on the spot.

2.  Found a package of condoms in my home with some missing.  We never used condoms since I had my tubes tied.  I never believed the lame stupid story DA told me but I used to think about this just before I went to sleep at night and first thing in the morning and wondered "could he be lying to me"?  Nah, he wouldn‘t lie to me because I would never lie to him.  Right.

3.  Cell phone did DA in the last time.  When I got a huge bill I looked at the individual calls and saw that he was calling the same 3 numbers--her work, her cell and her home.  And the cell records showed he initiated contact first too.  I spoke to her and she confirmed everything including the fact that he had lied to her too.  He told her he was divorced.  What a liar!

Other things to look for:

not taking phone calls in front of you or the children by either going outside to talk or hanging up quick, wanting to start fights or being defensive or critical all the time so he can leave, not wanting to have sex even when it has been awhile, losing things--such as a wedding band or misplacing a wallet (left it at her house) and then magically finding them again, having to work late all the time but no one at work knows where he is, spending money more than normal at restuarants, not wanting you to go to his jobsite or acting all weird when you do show up, and hiding his cell phone or locking the computer. 

These are some of the "signs" I observed.  They say hindsight is 20/20.  When you are in love you are blind, I guess because I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Now I would like to just give him a foot up the ass!  Wait--my attorney already did that!  ha ha

Emotional cheating in my opinion is just as hurtful if not more than physical cheating. 

Your wife has a serious problem.  I have always heard if someone lies about a particular thing regularly then that thing can be considered an addiction.  She has lied to you allot and I am sorry.  No one deserves that.

SAM

When you first find out about their cheating, it is so raw and painful and I felt like I was going to lose my mind.  I know where you are coming from and I wanted to do something--anything--to get back at him.  He really was lucky that I didn‘t shoot him with my pistol.  I was that mad.  I buried his body so many times along the interstate in the piney woods in my mind.

But reality of the situation sets in and you have to go to work or make sure that the kids get to school on time and that the power bill gets paid.  Life still goes on even when you are hurting.

My advice if you are going to leave him is to change the locks, see an attorney, and do what you have to do to get yourself as far away as possible from him and his whore.  You will have to make yourself a new life.  A better life.  A new and improved life without the cheater and liar.  You will feel better with time and be amazed at how much easier things are without him.  Pretty soon you won‘t even think of him at all.  Do something nice for yourself and surround yourself with friends and family who love and support you. 

Good luck to you!

SAM

My new friend has a birthday on Sunday.  I wanted to ask the men what they thought about my gift idea.

He has never had a massage before and has been very stressed out about his work lately.  So I have arranged for the both of us to have a massage together as a couple on Saturday.  I think he will like this (I love massages!) but he is not a girly kind of man at all and I am afraid he might balk at going into the salon.  He is very sensual so I think he would really enjoy the massage if I can get him through the door.

I have been seeing this man since March.  I worry too that this gift might be too much or be considered too intimate.  I guess I worry too much.  And I guess if he refuses to go for the massage, I will just get 2 massages myself!  hmmm.

So do you think he will like my surprise?  Do I have a hope of getting a rough manly man to go into a girly salon?  ha ha

SAM

I watched 2 episodes last night.  I have TIVO which is fabulous because you can record stuff when you are not home and then fast forward through the commercials when you do watch the show.

Holly Hunter is a favorite of mine.  Southern girl.  I thought her character was very different than what is normally on tv.  Her character is almost masculine somehow.  Quirky and flawed.  Not exactly likeable either.

I thought it was interesting how much emphasis was placed on the Oklahoma City bombing and the memorial for episode 2.  We as a country haven‘t said much lately about Oklahoma City.  It has sorta been forgotten.  That is a shame.

Like I said above, TIVO is great.  Other things I think are wonderful are tuna in a pouch (no more cans!), dvd players and cds.  These are some of the things I really appreciate!

Everyone have a great weekend!

SAM

Well, I wanted to tell you how it went on Saturday.  I was so nervous about the whole thing, thought he would think it was goofy and nearly just didn‘t do it but I didn‘t have another gift lined up and plus I had already told him I had a surprise for him later that day.  I was stuck.  So just before we got there I told him that I had arranged for us to have a couples massage and that I thought he would really like it because he is very sensual and also because he had been very stressed with his work that it would help relax him.  I said just try it, you will like it and that I hoped he didn‘t think it was too girly.  He was really touched by the gift and said it was very thoughtful of me and that no one had ever gone to so much trouble or his expense for his birthday before.  So we get there and we got a massage in the same room for about an hour and it was great!  Talk about relaxed.  OMG.  It wasn‘t even my birthday and I had a great time too.  He just raved about how much he enjoyed it and how wonderful it was.  Then we went to dinner and that was very nice too.  It all around was a great day.  I am so glad he enjoyed it.  Maybe for my birthday he will do the same.  But add flowers too.  What is it with this man and no flowers?  What does a girl have to do to get flowers?

your very relaxed friend,

SAM

You really are lovely. 

They are all assholes.  Don‘t listen to the dumb asses (DAs) because they are dumb asses and don‘t count.

SAM

What happened to us takes a toll.  It really hurt my feelings that my husband fell in love with another woman.  I mean, what is wrong with me?

Women naturally will take the blame for everything and most men naturally will let them.  Allot of time we base what happens to us on how we look.  I know I did.  A woman could be the most beautiful supermodel in the world but have a tiny minute pimple that only she can see on her face and she will be crying thinking she is the most hideous creature alive.  A man on the other hand could look like he is 8 months pregnant and look like a troll but think he is god‘s gift to women.  This amazes me.  I have a son and a daughter.  Now I love them both but they are like night and day.  My son is chubby but thinks he is a chick magnet.  And he is.  My daughter constantly puts herself down about her looks and she is a very pretty smart girl.  This upsets me to no end.  I try to emphasize to both of them that how you treat people and being smart is second to beauty yet my daughter still puts so much emphasize on looks.  She is a preteen and this worries me.  I want her to be happier than I was when I was a teenager.  I have rambled on enough.

I guess it is hard to trust again.  Even when someone is nice to me or says sweet things to me, I find it hard to accept a compliment or really believe him.  There are some nice men out there who are sincere and genuinely appreciate women. It is just hard sometimes to get past the bullshit from the former spouse I still carry around in my head.

SAM 

I wore my rings for awhile.  Had to have them resized because I had lost so much weight.  Got to love that divorce diet!

Then I put them in a box out of sight out of mind.  I just didn‘t want to look at them any more.  They were very pretty and I had so enjoyed wearing them but it reminded me of him whenever I saw them on my hand.  Not a good thing.  So I went on Ebay and bought me a whole new set of jewelry.  Opal and garnet rings, bracelets, necklaces and earrings.  Something for me purchased by me.  Very nice and not very expensive either.  Just as pretty but better.

People asked me if I was going to give my wedding set to my daughter.  No.  Why should she have jewelry with unhappy memories?  She deserves her own jewelry anyway.

I gave my wedding set and 3 rings DA bought me to a friend and told her to see if she could sell it for me.  She has a jeweler friend.  Told her I would give her half of whatever I was offered.  I don‘t want them in my house any more.

I have moved on.  This is a a good thing.

SAM

Liar cheaters always blame us.  It is always OUR fault this happened.  They never take responsibility for what happened.  I know from experience, after all I "made up" the other woman.  Funny how she is still with him even now.  Damn, I am good at this making things up!

Anyway, don‘t listen to him.  Do what is best for you and your children.  Don‘t feel sorry for him either.  He caused this mess and now he can deal with it.  You are going to feel really shitty for awhile but I promise you will get over this hump and feel better.  It takes awhile but it will come.  Stand strong and do something nice for yourself.  Go get a manicure or get your hair colored or buy a new outfit. Something different.  Just for you.  You want to look pretty if nothing else but to piss him off and looking pretty will help make you feel better too.  That divorce diet is killer and I firmly believe divorce makes you pretty.  It did for me.

SAM

I think some women just feel they have to have a man and couldn‘t make it on their own.  To them even having a bad man is better than having no man.  I think people also learn to accept what little scraps of attention or love they are given and after awhile just don‘t expect anything more than what they get.  The bad one is not always bad.  Maybe he or she is bad 99 times out of 100 but it is that one time they are nice or good or thoughtful or loving or even just normal that makes the other person hold on to hope and stay.  And there are people like me who felt they made a commitment before God and everyone else and were damned determined to make it work even when it was obvious it wouldn‘t or couldn‘t or shouldn‘t work out.  I always thought we would work through the hard spot and get over the hump and things would have to be better 6 months or a year from now.  Some people will see divorce as a failure.  I thought that way too at first.  Now I realize it was an escape for me.  I lived with a mean sarcastic son of a bitch who did not appreciate me at all.  Now I can really appreciate that he is gone.

Just my thoughts.  I am sorry you have been hurt.  Not all women are trash like your former spouse.  I hope you find a special lady soon who will be good to you and appreciate you.

SAM

I am sorry.

Some women just don‘t know how good they have it or could have it.  It always seems like there is a taker and a giver and honey, you got taken.  I was always the giver too and it wears thin after awhile.  Your relationship might have led to you feeling resentful later on down the line since you were the one doing all the work.  I know it did for me.

You mentioned being 5‘7.  I am a tall woman 5‘10 and have gone out with men shorter than me.  Height really doesn‘t have anything to do with it.  What I find most attractive about a man is his confidence.  Some of the most confident men I have ever met have been shorter than me.  Please do not worry about the height thing.

I hope you find a nice woman who will be good to you.  When I split from my husband, I was convinced no other man would ever want me.  Not true.  I have found a very nice attentive boyfriend.  There is both a physical and emotional connection to this relationship and I am very happy now.  Like the others said, it wasn‘t you--it was her and I hope you can find some peace of mind soon.

SAM

I don‘t necessarily agree with this article.  I do not understand why a woman would poach another woman‘s husband but I do not think it is because she is afraid of unmarried men.  I think people meet and there is that chemistry--that attraction and then what happens, happens.  A decision to cheat is made.  Sometimes the woman might not even realize the man is married and doesn‘t find out until in her mind it is too late.  She is in love with him.  This is what happened with my former spouse.  He lied to her too.

I have a friend who has dated married men before.  I don‘t really understand it myself because it always ends up that she is the one hurt.   Perhaps some of the reasons a woman would date a married man would be that she would not have to mother him or take care of him.  No discussions about the mortgage or bills--just flirting and sexy talk?  The thrill of the chase maybe.  Not wanting to get caught but knowing eventually you might?  Some women might even fall for that "my wife doesn‘t understand me" line and even feel sorry for the man.  Because you know all those married men with girlfriends never have sex with their wives anymore.  Yeah right!  Maybe some women don‘t want a fulltime boyfriend either.  Women may becoming better at compartmentizing their lives too.  I don‘t know.

I never have understood why a woman would want a man she couldn‘t have completely to herself.  That‘s why if I remarry, I really should remarry an orphan who has never been married and who does not have children.  ha ha  I wouldn‘t want to feel second best and I wouldn‘t want to hurt another woman.  I have been on the other side of this scenerio as the wife and it is not fun.    I don‘t understand women who marry men who are in prison either.  Although I imagine there is allot of sweet talk and buildup but buildup to what?  Fantasy?  Maybe that is what these women like the most.  The chase and the fantasy of what could be but will most likely never be.

SAM

I love that Toby Keith song and I always change the words to "How do you like me now--now that I am so pretty?"  I hope DA just kicks himself every time he sees me. 

What a waste of time and energy he was!  Why, why, why did I stay with him so long?   Sorry--I just have to vent a little.  I really don‘t like that man at all. 

SAM

Do what you can to get your surgery asap.  Start to squirrel away some money and quietly talk to an attorney.

It is not an easy path to divorce.  Deciding whether you want to really divorce him or not is the hardest part.  Once you make your decision you will feel better.  It is the "should I or shouldn‘t I" part that is hard.

Do you honestly think he will stop his wandering or change his ways?  The blaming you for everything is typical cheater behavior.  Is he really that great that you truly want him or is the fear of the unknown?

I can tell you from personal experience that I am happier NOW than I ever was when I was married.  And I thought it would kill me at first when I first filed for divorce.  But there is something to be said for peace of mind.  I like myself a whole lot better without him around.  I think it might be the same way for you too.

SAM

I didn‘t even look at the video.  Just listen to the words.  It is the fact that someone didn‘t want you or appreciate you when you wanted them.  The best part is that when you get famous or happy or pretty or rich or just comfortable in your own skin, you realize you don‘t need or want the other person.  What did you see in them anyway?  My point exactly when it comes to my former spouse.  What the hell was I thinking and why oh why did I ever shed a tear over that DumbAss?  Why did I let him make me feel bad and ugly?  Why did I give him that much power over me?  I just hope he can tell how much happier I am now without him.  Everyone else can!

SAM

Back to what Happily is saying about self esteem.

Your self esteem and basically how you see other people takes a big nose dive.  I mean after all, my husband fell in love with another woman.  What was wrong with me?  That is what we all think when this happens.  What I had to do is realize that I most likely will never love anyone ever again or trust as much as I did the DumbAss I married.  You basically have to put up a little wall and I know I have changed.  I am not the same person.  On the positive side though, you learn to love yourself more and trust yourself more and depend on yourself more.  It makes you a bit more selfish.  Maybe not as giving or loving either.  And what is interesting is that once you become more "meaner" and not as sweet, men seem to be more interested in you.  I will never understand that shit!

I think you should do your best to become the person you want to become.  HE is secondary now.  Whether you stay or not is secondary.  You now know the truth and it has changed you.  You get to reinvent yourself if you want to.  That is allot of fun.  I got to do this at age 42 and it has been a blast!

sam

It is hot as all hell here.  The computers at work keep acting up.  Customers are unhappy about their high bills and keep chewing my ass out.  I am surprised I have any ass left to sit on.  I haven‘t gotten any child support money this month.  We are eating peanut butter and whatever I had in the freezer already since I had to buy back to school supplies and clothes for the kids.  I had to quit smoking because I am having blood work done on Friday.  I am having surgery later this month and I have been told they check for nicotine in the blood work.  That is a no-no and if they find it, they will refuse to do the surgery which I have already paid for.  I feel fat and bloated because I am on my period and I have been eating everything in sight since I am not smoking.  This man I have been seeing has pissed me off because he never called me like he said he would last night and when he did call this morning it was like HELLO! nothing wrong.  And what the hell do I have to do to have him send me some flowers?

Is there anyone else out there as pissy as me?  Or am I the only one?

Busty--where are you going?

And things are better--I got a check today and cashed it at 9:01.  woo-hoo!

SAM

Have a great weekend and a great birthday Lorrie!  How does it feel to be 21?

Don‘t do anything I wouldn‘t do.  Wait--that sorta leaves things wide open, doesn‘t it?  ha ha

Enjoy your day,

SAM

Staying for the kids kept me married to DA for years longer than I should have.  I wish I had filed for divorce the day after my youngest child was born.

My kids were 9 and 11 when their father moved out.  I was worried about them naturally and I have taken them to counseling.  Counseling to help them cope with dealing with HIM because he is a mean and nasty f*ck who would make them cry when he had them on his weekends.  The kids have told me over and over that it is better now than ever.  They don‘t really miss their father, don‘t really want to go with him and they say the 3 of us have more fun and do more together than ever before.

He introduced the little honey to them mid summer and at first I was upset about that but soon realized that she was kind to the children and served as a buffer between the children and him.  She apparently keeps DA in line and at least now I know the kids will be treated well since she is around.  I have to respect her for that.

SAM

It is the excitement, the drama and the attention that gets people.  You do not have to talk about the mortgage or bills but it is all sexy talk and buildup.  Anticipation.

That is why a man will leave a beautiful poised woman who obviously "has it going on" (like me--ha ha) for someone who is less attractived and not as well educated or as well grounded in life.  My DA needed undivided attention and someone to hang on his every word and worship him.  He found that in her obviously.  I can remember thinking it was strange that DA was even jealous of his own children too.  It is hard to worship someone 24/7 when you work a fulltime job, have 2 kids and take care of the finances and household pretty much by yourself.

Sometimes I think too we outgrow our men.  By the time it was all said and done I loved my husband but I had no respect for him.  I need to respect a man first and foremost.

And you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out "why".  I am just glad I got to start my life over again at age 42 and I am having so much fun!

SAM

I like this site because y‘all always make me laugh!  I love the honesty and the cussing and the down to earth advice.  This is a fun bunch!

I wish all women who are going through a divorce could find this site or something similar because I think these forums can be life lines for those who feel like they are drowning.  At one time I felt that way too.  Not fun at all.  But my life is truly wonderful now.  I am such a lucky girl!

SAM

Yes.  I would want to know.  I suspected he was cheating and got confirmation from her directly.  She had been told that he was already divorced.  She was a bit upset and rightfully so.  She felt bad for me and I actually felt very bad for her.  He lied to me and he lied to her.  

I am so glad I found out.  I am so glad to be rid of him.  Thought I would die at first but it was the best thing that could have happened to me.  Now he must have sweet talked her big time because they are still together.  I wish her luck!

SAM

I have been busy.

I had my boobs and tummy tuck done on the 28 Aug.  Very happy with the results and still can‘t believe I did it.  And yes, Lorrie, I paid for it all myself.

Then I got bit by a dog that they suspected had rabies while I was at home from work.  Lots of drama associated with that.

Went back to work way too early--but felt guilty for being out at all.  Tried to be superwoman and it just about bit me in the ass.  Worked a 60 hour week my first week back and it was only 14 days after the surgery.  Was real grumpy so I apologized to the girls I work with.  Told them it must be the withdrawal from the really good drugs I had been getting or maybe being grumpy and mean was the first sympton of rabies.  They laughed and said we think your new found aggression is because you can now call on the power of the "twins"!  Bigger boobs apparently make me more assertive with dumb ass customers.  I thought that was funny and they might be right.

This past weekend I went away with my "friend" since the children were with their father and when I got back on Sunday found that my hot water leaked and ruined the carpet in the living room, my bedroom, my bathroom, hallway and the floor in the utility room.  Good thing about this whole thing is that my new "friend" really came through for me and has been so helpful.  He made one call and it has all been taken care of.  Someone was out within 2 hours to pull up wet carpet and begin drying out the floors.  I just have to buy a new hot water heater and then pick out the paint colors I want and the carpet and tile I want and the insurance co should pay for it all.  I had been wanting to put down new carpet and tile and paint these rooms anyway so now I get to have them done professionally.  It is just hard right now living with the carpet pulled up and no water.  Plumber comes out in the morning to install new hot water heater and I am paying extra to get one of those waterless propane ones.  Then this should never happen again.

The amazing this is how calm I have been through this all.  If I had been still married to DA I would have been a nervous wreck and had to figure all this shit out by myself.  You see, sometimes things do happen for a reason.  I don‘t know.  I am just ready to take a hot shower in my own house again sometime this month.  And no, I don‘t have rabies.

SAM

Your post confuses me a bit so bare with me.  It was my husband that she was seeing.  I would not go out with a married man and she did not like the fact that she had either without even knowing it.  I have to hand it to him--he is an equal opportunity liar.  All I can think of is that he pulled a fast one over on her and was able to sweet talk her to come back.  Maybe the mere fact that I filed divorce papers--even after he had lied to her made it ok since technically then he was a seperated man.  He had something in hand that he could show her then.  If I were her I certainly would have demanded something in writing.

Long story short--yes I wanted to know and had to dig for the truth because all I got from him were lies.  And the truth of the matter is too that me finding out about her was really the cherry on the sundae.  I had lost respect for him some time back and had not been happy in the marriage although I did not want to admit that to myself or anyone else.  Maybe I just needed a real big reason to put his ass out and she was it.  Or maybe him allowing me to find out about her through the cell phone records was his way of indirectly saying he wanted out too.  I would have thought someone who was cheating would be more discreet and careful.  Put some more thought into it but my DA is not known for being the sharpest man around.

Now if I had been the OW, I would not contact the wife.  I figure that matter is between them.  Several months ago, I did go out with a man twice until I found out he was "technically" married.  That was enough for me to not see him again.  Funny that I haven‘t heard from him since either so I guess he is technically still married but that is ok because I didn‘t like him that much anyway. 

SAM

My opinion:  It is confidence that makes someone attractive.  Male or female.  I love being around a man who is confident and has a sense of humor.  And has nice manners too. And compliments me.  ha ha

I think any man would be flattered to be asked out for coffee or dinner and if he was not interested, he would tell you upfront or not go out with you again.  I say go for it! Have fun!

SAM

Sunny--thanks for asking!  I am great and finally caught up at work.  My breasts are beautiful (even if say so myself) and natural looking and I am very happy with the results.   I got a tummy tuck too.  This year is my year of self improvement.  First my divorce was final and now these touch-ups.  I am so lucky and have never had so much fun in my entire life.  Life does begin at 40ish maybe?  And I truly believe divorce makes you pretty!

Y‘all have a good weekend.

SAM

My divorce was final this summer.  I married my high school sweetheart and was married nearly 20 years.

I began dating earlier this spring.  I have met a very nice man and I like him.  Like him allot.  Maybe even love him?  But how I feel about him is so different than what I did for my former spouse.  Granted, I am allot older now and perhaps a bit jaded.  And he is totally different in so many ways than my former spouse too.  This is a very good thing.  We have a very nice relationship but if we were to stop seeing each other, I would be sad but it would not by any means be the end of my world.  I would dust myself off and keep on going and probably start dating some other lucky man (ha) fairly quickly.

My question to you is this:  Do you think we only have one true love?  Have any of you found your true love after divorce?  Is there even such a thing in your opinion?

Just wondering,

SAM

You know I posted this great reply and of course, lost it!

I just wonder if you can ever love someone again as much as you loved the first true or great love.  Only love for me.   I think personally I am so different now and much more careful with my heart that maybe that is not possible.  And one reason I think I stayed as long as I did with my former spouse was that I was afraid no other man would ever want me.

I am different now and my relationship with my new friend is very different.  He is very different than my former spouse and that is a good thing.  I doubt he is the "one" but he has been very good to me and for me.  However I will never make a fool of myself again over any man.  I just don‘t think I can ever love anyone as passionately or as much as I did my former spouse.  Maybe I am wrong.  I would like to be wrong.

But you know what is really sad?  The fact that I was married nearly 20 years and it only took me a few dates to find another man whose company I enjoy more than DA‘s.  Essentially he was replaced in pretty short order.  Of course I was replaced before I even knew I had been replaced since he was seeing her when we were still married.

Everyone always said that time does heal.  I guess it does really.  I am happy to be where I am.  I love my life and the children and I are doing very well.  I am such a lucky girl!

SAM

I hate him, Lorrie.

He is such a liar.  I am so glad you are rid of him.  It is when they mess with our kids that our claws really come out.  If he is smart he will leave the hell enough alone.

Do something nice for yourself today.  You deserve it!

SAM

--when the kids leave an empty carton in the refigerator or an empty box in the cabinet.  Throw it away!

--slow poking drivers when I am in a hurry

--people who go to the charity drop off boxes with their pick up truck and pretend to be dropping off stuff but what they are actually doing is shopping.  I hate that!

--finding a lone white sock or a white towel when you asked the children to bring all their dirty clothes and you are done washing whites

--finding out at the last possible moment as the school bus pulls up in the yard that a child needs some poster board or some other school supply and of course you don‘t have any at home

I guess we will look back on most of these things that make us crazy and laugh one day!

SAM

Your words were very true.

I think it is when we come to the conclusion that divorce does not mean failure but a new opportunity for life, a new direction, a new beginning, a new start that we can move on and become the women we can and should be. 

 I got to start my life all over again at 42.  I am such a lucky girl!

SAM 

...that men fall in love with the woman they are attracted to while women are attracted to the man they love.

What do you think?  I think there is allot of truth in that statement.

I had the misfortune this weekend of having to see my former spouse really up close and talk to him and I was amazed at how unattractive I find him.  And I used to think he was the best looking thing in the world too at one time.  Always thought he was way better looking than me.  But now he looks old, tired, gray headed, greasy and fat.  Not to brag or anything but I really look so much better than he does and I am 3 years older than him too. 

Maybe there is a little justice in the world, after all!

SAM

I don‘t know, Lorrie.  Over the years I have lost quite a bit of my faith.  I remember about a year or so ago I was in Sunday school class and the leader was talking about heaven and how he thought we would spend all our time praising God and praying and singing songs and I thought to myself that I might not like that as much as some of the other people would.  That would be boring after awhile?  I am too selfish I guess.  And what about eating what you want in heaven or doing what YOU want to do in heaven?  He kinda made me rethink the heaven thing.

I also do not know what I think about these psychics who say they can communicate with the dead.  Or those psychics who can solve crimes.  I would like to think we get to see loved ones who have passed on again but I am not sure.  I think believing you will see someone again must be a great comfort to someone who has lost a loved one.  I am not sure what I believe anymore.

Interesting thread.

SAM

Stop by Victoria‘s Secret and get me some new sexy bras and panties.  I haven‘t bought anything new since my surgery--haven‘t had time since I have been busy playing catch up at work.

SAM

Back to the questions as to why men cheat, someone said something about weight.  When my husband cheated, I was the thinnest I had ever been during our entire marriage.   So in my opinion, the wife being fat which leads to the husband cheating is bogus.  The woman my former spouse is with now is not what you would call thin, has a huge ass and sounds like a truck driver. 

I think the cheater craves that excitement and adoration they get from the new lover.  And the sex.  The newness of everything.  There is no conflict, no talk about the mortgage or bills.  Just sweet talk and build-up.  Anticipation.  That is real hard to compete with when you have been married for a long time and are working full time, taking care of kids, paying bills and doing everything else.

 And the cheating is not just done by men either.  Obviously.  I am absolutely astounded by what some women have done and what some women get away with.  I have met some really nice men who got royally screwed over by some nutcake cheater liar wife.  A liar is a liar is a liar.  I hate all liars.

SAM

I enjoy not having a husband.  It is easier to do things and get things done and the children and I go to bed at 7:30 if we want to or have eggs and bacon for supper if we want to or go see a movie if we want to.  It is just easier and less stressful all around.  If I need something done at the house, I just pay someone to come out and do the work or figure it out myself.  I love not having in-laws either!

I do have periods of time when I am by myself.  That took some getting used to but I found I used that time to do some things I wanted or needed to and I found myself going out with friends and doing something fun.  I had to make myself more social and that was good for me.

I have what you might call a part time boyfriend.  He and I see each other pretty much every other weekend and sometimes over lunch during the middle of the week.  I find this works very well for me and I like the fact we are not in each other‘s hip pocket.  This arrangement allows for some anticipation and build-up to when we do get together.  That is nice.

The internet can be a very good or a very bad place to meet people.  I met my friend via the internet.  You have to be careful because there are loo-loos out there.  Men and women.   To tell you something funny, I started talking to men via the internet just to do some "practice" dating earlier in this year.  My intention was to just go out with some ugly men just to get in some practice.  Coffee dates.  Keep in mind I had been married nearly 20 years.  I didn‘t really want to go out with my friend because he couldn‘t spell worth a flip but he was persistant and when I met him he fooled me because he was so much better looking in person than the photo he had posted on the internet.  Now I think he is very attractive--he still can‘t spell though (ha ha).

There is nothing wrong with being by yourself.  I am happier now unmarried than I ever was married.  I think allot of women put up with allot of shit because they are scared to be all alone.  I think there are much worse things than being alone.

SAM

It just didn‘t work out.  That is what I tell people now if they ask what happened to me and DA. 

The issue I had with him was not that he did not want to be married (to me) any more but the fact that he did not handle things the right way.  If he was unhappy and wanted out he should have filed for divorce and not involved a third party.  That is what really pissed me off.  The fact that he talked to her about me really really pissed me off.  The emotional cheating more than the physical cheating.

Lorrie, your former spouse like mine just didn‘t handle it right.  He should have finished the marriage with you before beginning the new relationship with her.  That is the chickenshit way of doing things, don‘t you think?

SAM

My previous boss was like that.  I felt so stressed that I would literally dry heave every morning driving to work.  I liked my job but I hated her.  Nothing ever good enough no matter how hard I pushed the people I supervised.  Half my job was keeping her away from my staff because she would work them up and piss them off.  I worked for her for nearly 3 years and it was awful.  I tell people that it took months for the saddle marks to fade away since this woman loved to ride my ass.

My advice--start looking for another job if you are unhappy.  Some people and some things won‘t ever change despite how hard you try.  Don‘t quit the job you have until you find a better job with a better working environment.  It took me awhile to find the "perfect" job and I haven‘t regretting leaving at all.  Stress will do all kinds of things to your body too so be sure to take care of yourself.

SAM

For me, I didn‘t like what living with a cheater did to me.  I changed.  I became suspicious, jumpy, and would always want to check up on him.  Quietly obsessed and unhappy to the point it was not good for me or healthy.  That is not what marriage is about in my opinion.  I decided I would rather be by myself and have some peace of mind than have to constantly wonder and look over my shoulder.

Of course he denied ever cheating but all the evidence led me to the conclusion (and people I talked to about this too agreed) that he was cheating.  Hell, the other woman even confirmed it.  So I decided if he was stupid enough to do things that made it look like he was cheating even if he wasn‘t, I did not want to be married to someone that stupid either.  Same result for me.

I also think some people are more predisposed to wander than others.  Why do these people even bother to marry at all? 

SAM

Good for you!  You will do great and again congratulations on your new job.  Be sure to tell us how your first day goes.

SAM

I remember when I found out about my ex husband cheating and when I filed for divorce, I would fight with him in my head all the time.  I would get so tired just thinking about all the mess and trying to figure out the reason "why?".  There is no reason why.  They do what they do and like the others said it doesn‘t have anything to do with you.

And it does change you.  I used to be very sweet and passive and pretty much a doormat.  Now I am still sweet (ha) but I am more confident and assertive and tougher.  I like myself more now too.  And I have put some time and some money into MYSELF that I never did before.  Do something to make yourself feel better.  Change your hairstyle, get your nails done, buy yourself something pretty just to make yourself feel better.  You deserve it.  I went blonde, lost a ton of weight, and actively worked on making new friends so I would have people to do things with when my kids were gone with their father.  You do not want to sit and brood.  Now is the time you get to reinvent yourself.  I did and it has been wonderful. 

And you just can‘t help but laugh when you hear descriptions of the OW.  What a skank she must be!  My DA‘s soon to be bride is short and chubby with a huge ass.   He is a huge ass in my opinion so they deserve each other!   I just got to love it.  I have said it before and I will say it again--Divorce makes you pretty!

Go do something nice for yourself.  You deserve it.

SAM

I had a tummy tuck too.  And I had my breasts done too.  I did it because I wanted to look good with my clothes on.  Not that many people see me naked anyway.  And the one that does on a regular basis can close his eyes when he gets to that general area or turn the light off if it bothers him.  He says it doesn‘t and I believe him.  I really really believe him!  It worried me at first but I was more bothered about how my stomach looked prior to the surgery.   Now I feel sexier and that is a good thing for us all around. 

And I agree that having some clothing on while having sex can be very sexy.  For women anyway.  I think men being all naked except for socks is funnier than hell.  What is up with that?

SAM

Thank you Sunny!  And I just had my leg done too last week.  I have had a bad varicose vein since I was 16.  It always bothered me and made my otherwise lovely leg look bumpy.  I was quite self conscious of it.  Now it looks beautiful too!

This has been my year of self improvement--divorce final in July, plastic surgery in Sept, house repaired and improved in Oct, and now my leg fixed.  I think I will stop now for awhile.  Maybe my next goal for 2008 should be to start looking for a better job.

I think it is important when you go through the emotional trauma of a divorce to do something nice for just YOU.  Many times as a wife and mother we do nice things for others and tend to neglect ourselves.  I know I did for years and years.  Now I feel better about myself and more confident.  And not the bit guilty either for doing what I wanted to do for me.

Divorce makes you pretty, ladies!

SAM

I am so sorry.  You have been so strong through so much.  I hope you are taking good care of yourself.

I am thinking of you,

SAM

Have fun!  I love the age my children are right now--11 and 13 because they still like to do things with me. I know this won‘t last much longer.   Halloween is fun for the little ones.  We like to go to haunted houses and hayrides and drink apple cidar and eat all kinds of horrible bad for you but tastes so good food.  I love this time of year.

Enjoy your date!

SAM

Every day my son says to me "Mom, you look beautiful" whether I do or not.  I think he is mainly trying to get some brownie points because he is all in hot water with me about his grades but I tell him that is what most women want to hear and that it is nice to compliment ladies.  That if he is nice to women they will in turn be nice to him.  I am trying to teach him how to talk to women.  His DA father cetainly never knew how. 

Sunny, I am sure you are hotter than hot!  I think being in my 40‘s I am sexier than I have ever been.  It is an attitude more than anything else.  Confidence.  That is sexy as all hell in men.  That is what I like anyway.  And must be too in women.  I am sure you have heard about cougars.  That is where an older woman goes out with much younger men.  I went out with a man considerably younger than me for awhile and it was fun but I like to be the pretty young thing more!

SAM

I met my friend via the internet.  And I have posted a fake profile.  She has gotten pretty good response from other men but he has never contacted "her".  That makes me feel better.

SAM

Everyone has been nice to me.  Give us a chance to help you.  There is allot of wisdom here and God knows you need all the support you can get when you go through something like this.  But you have to watch out because there are some people here with wicked sense of humors.  I like that and I think that is what makes this board unique.  We are all the walking wounded but by God, let‘s laugh about something.  Or someone!

SAM

Once when I ran a background check on a new hire at work, I told him there was a warrant for his arrest for $12,500 in back child support payments.  He just about died.  That was mean of me, wasn‘t it?  He got the job.ha ha

SAM

I didn‘t involve another person.  I just created a free hotmail address with a fake name and then set up a fake profile and it just sits out there and if someone is interested they email "her".  No photos or anything like that.  I just delete the emails to her I get and that is that.  And I have never contacted anyone and would not contact my friend.  Even I think that would be unfair.  I just want to find out if he is contacting other women on the website we met on.

SAM

I love being a woman too.  When I was a kid I always thought it would be better to be a boy but not now.

I just think women are beautiful.  They are soft to the touch and smell good and they enjoy doing nice things for people.  I can fully understand why men love us so. 

And women are tough.  Smart.  Resourceful.  We will have a plan A,B,C, and D if we need to.  I feel sorry for anyone who goes up against a determined woman.

This will sound very vain, but I like walking into a room and being the center of attention.  I like feeling sexy and pretty.  This is a recent development for me and I love it.

And I loved being pregnant too and nursing my babies.  And now I love that one on one time I have every now and then with my preteens.  They are bigger, yes, but they still need their mama and no one else will do. Sadly, I know this will not always be the case.

This is a great thread.

SAM

ps:  high heel boots are another reason I love being a woman.  We get to wear the prettiest clothes, shoes and accessories!

Personally, the first thing I would have to get another job.  That is probably not fair to you--why should you change jobs and all that--but  honestly I couldn‘t deal with seeing him all the time.  As far as karma, what was done was done, just stay away from him now.  Chalk it up to learning from a mistake and move on.  Don‘t let him sweet talk you back.  He is a real snake in the grass, isn‘t he?

SAM

Fifi, T and A are great to have!  I have T but sadly no A.

I am so excited about Thanksgiving.  My children will be with their father and his lovely new bride so my boyfriend and I are taking a little trip.  Just the two of us.  No cooking.  No in-laws.  No work.  Out of town.  I just won‘t know how to behave.  If it works like I want it to, I won‘t have to behave!  ha ha

I cannot wait!

SAM

Me4life, when is your birthday?  I have one coming up later this month too.  Gonna be 44.  WTF! How did that happen?  ha ha

The list you provided is a good one.  My former spouse denied everything even knowing I talked to her.  Lie, lie, lie and then lie some more.  I have to give it to him.  Once he decided on a plan (lie to the wife at all costs) he stuck to it.  And it was a cell phone that did him in.  He racked up $500 in cell phone bills talking to her.  That is hard to lie away even for him.  But that huge bill was good because I had evidence in black and white and Verizon had no reason to lie to me.  He did.

And you are right--there are some nice men out there.  Sometimes we are too hurt or too angry to recognize this.  There are some men who have had their hearts broken and stomped on too.  There are some mean ass women out there just like there are some mean ass men.  Why does it seem like in every relationship there is a giver and a taker?

And I do believe in karma.  Someone on another thread said she didn‘t but I just have to.  Somewhere somehow there just has to be some sort of justice for these DAs.  I think the woman my former spouse has just married is keeping him on a very short leash from what I am hearing and seeing and I am loving that shit.  ha ha  She was the OW and didn‘t realize it at first since he lied to her too.  I told her she could have him and she is married to him now which makes me question her judgement but that is another story.  Now I think she has his number and I think that is all funny as hell.

SAM

It sounds like to me you are being very hard on yourself.  Most of us stay or stayed allot longer than we probably should have because of the children or because we were scared or really loved him or whatever reason.  Deciding to seperate or deciding to divorce is very personal and very difficult.  I hope you are not thinking you will get "I told you so‘s" here.  I do not know your story but I am sure you will find support here.

What will you do now?  Tell us more about your situation.

SAM

My husband always told me he loved me too. Every day and at the end of every phone call.   And the last night he spent in our home we slept together.  And this was even when he had been seeing her for 6 months.  That is what still confuses me--why did he not end the relationship he apparently didn‘t want any more (with me) if he really wanted one with this other woman (her)?

But you know what?  You will drive yourself crazy if you think about the "what ifs" or "why" too long.  The best thing any of us can do is try to move on and let the cheaters worry about themselves.  They will soon get caught up in some more lies.  Too much drama for me.  Plus we have too much living to do to give them any more thought.

SAM 

I think women never stop getting pretty.  Women are just naturally beautiful.  Mostly on the inside where it counts the most and also on the outside where it is readily seen.  And beauty cannot always be measured by fashion standards either.  I can see why men love women so--they smell good, look pretty and do nice things for others.  If I were a man I would love us too!

Now sometimes I think a woman who loves other people--her husband or her children--may neglect herself.  Mothers do this all the time.  Put everyone else first.  Maybe not buy herself a new flattering outfit she would like or maybe put off having her nails done or getting a new hair cut.  I know when I was married I never did anything for myself.  Of course when I was married there was never any money to do anything for myself even if I wanted to.  I found when I seperated from my former spouse I could focus some time and money on myself for a change.  I was worth a little time and attention.

My former spouse recently married a woman who I am sure is very nice.  She is one he cheated with and the one he denied seeing even when I caught him pretty much red handed.  I told her she could have him and dummy her took him!  I just hope she is very patient and good with money too because I think she will need both these skills.  This woman is in no stretch of the imagination more attractive than me.  I am like a supermodel compared to her.  I won‘t even go there because you all will think I am vain and I really am not--ha ha.

It took me filing for divorce nearly two years ago to get pretty.  Confidence is very sexy at any age.  Even 44.  Call me a late bloomer, I guess.

SAM

Me4Life, I think you are right.  I think some people--maybe men more than women--can love more than one person at a time.  I don‘t know.  I have never personally experienced that myself but I do think if I had said, come home and let‘s work it out, he would have.  I just didn‘t want that anymore.  I would rather be by myself than have to worry about him cheating. 

SAM

Some days I just fantasize that some jerk will mess with me--try to steal my purse (that is a laugh as the joke would be on him) or something and give me an excuse to punch his lights out.  I sometimes feel like my anger is just simmering away and might just boil over.  That is why I drink lots of coffee in the morning, lots of beer on the weekends, and generally smoke too much.  Simmering anger.  Yeah, that‘s my excuse and I am sticking to it!

SAM

When I was a kid I thought it would be more fun to be a boy.  Maybe it is to be a boy but I would not like to be a man.  I told my son (who is making bad grades) that he would always have to work and would one day be responsible for a family.  That his wife might not work but he would always have to work to support other people and himself.  That he needed to make good grades because he would always work and needed to have a good job.

I have always worked too but I would think men feel that pressure that they have to work 100% whereas women may not.  I think it is easier for a man sometimes to excel in his career because he may have a wife or someone as a back-up to help with children.  I like my job right now as it is convenient for my children but it does not pay much.  I need more money but I have to factor in flexibility and location and the longer hours I might need to work.  My former spouse just up and moved and changed jobs since he does not have to consider the children except every other weekend.  I could get really pissed if I thought about that for very long.

Interesting post.

SAM

Can I come too?  I have spent most of the week with the auditors so you know it has been fun.  NOT!

I agree--spoons are fun to play and especially when you have been drinking.  I like Coronas myself but am not fussy.  Anything beer is good for me.  And I think with cool weather like we are having here in Alabama we need to build a fire outside to sit around.  Turn the speakers up!  What should we listen to?

SAM

You are in the "in limbo" or "what if" stage.  That is the most difficult there is.  Most painful in my opinion.  Remember too that sometimes not making a decision is a decision.

SAM

Maybe it is like when someone is in sales and they write everything in their day planner to make it look like they are very busy so the person they are talking to and trying to sell to will think they are successful and real real busy and not desperate.  I think people have the tendency to want what they cannot have.  And the dating advice is always to not appear eager or as available as maybe you really are.  Maybe we sometimes do not appreciate what we have and want what we cannot have.  I mean if we have it, then it must not be that great.  Something else or someone else must be better.  Grass is always greener......

With that said, there still is no excuse for one woman poaching another woman‘s husband.

Meanwhile I bet you look better than ever, are much happier and have more money than you ever did when he was with you.  Right?

I am thankful I found myself again after many unhappy years.  I was married a long time and just didn‘t realize how unhappy I was.  Lucky me got to reinvent myself at age 42.

I am thankful for my health and my children‘s good health.  I am thankful for my parents and sisters and my friends.

I am thankful that I was born when I was and that I live in this country.  Some women are not as lucky as we are to be able to have the freedom to divorce or have the ability to work to support themselves and their children.  They are stuck.

Peace of mind is a wonderful thing too.  I have so much to be thankful for.

SAM

I ain‘t gonna do any cooking today or tomorrow.  I am going to a friend‘s house for Thanksgiving and my contribution is to bring beer.  Woohoo!

I ain‘t gonna be sad that the kids are with their father and his new source of income--I mean, his new wife---the rest of the week either.  I am going to have fun with my friend tomorrow and then drive to see another friend who lives in Florida on Friday.  To hell with high gas prices!

SAM

It is ok to have a bad day.  You have been hurt and I imagine lied to so that is why you are suspicious.  He will have to earn your trust again and you will go crazy if you try to figure out "why".  I am sorry.  That is why we are here--vent away!  I hope things are getting better.

SAM

I told the woman my husband cheated with that she could have him.  I wish her no ill will but I feel sorry for her because he lied to her like he did me but she fell for the lies.  She did not know he was married.  He told her he was divorced.  Maybe she will have the good sense to watch him more closely than I ever did.  Too much work.

Maybe it is easier for the betrayed wife to blame the other woman instead of the husband because we do not love the OW but deep down still love the husband and will make excuses for him.  That he was tempted.  She went for him and he was helpless to stop himself.  That the OW was extremely attractive.  That is funny actually.  More than not, the betrayed wife will end up blaming herself and some men like my former spouse will also put the blame on the wife.  I didn‘t love him or show him affection or I let myself go or whatever!  It was all my fault.  Sure it was.

Why a woman would poach another woman‘s man is beyond me anyway.  And who would want a cheater man anyway?  Not me.  I am of the mind set if he cheats on his wife then it is only a matter of time until he cheats again on me.  It is just too much worry and work for me.  I do not like complicated relationships.

SAM

My former spouse kept "losing" and then "finding" his wedding ring.  Thought that was interesting.  I even bought him another one which he promptly "lost".  He also lost his wallet one time but found it again the next week.  Hmm.

He also began locking his vehicle and hiding his cell phone when he was home.  We live out in the middle of the country so there is no reason to lock a car.  Gosh, that is not suspicious, is it?

Cell phone was what tipped me that he was involved with another woman.  Same 3 numbers over and over and over--her cell, her home, her work.  That and a $500 cell phone bill.

I hate cheaters.  Just say you are done.  Don‘t bring a third party in.  Walk away.  The wife if you are like me will drive herself crazy trying to catch him and then when she does will most likely blame herself for him cheating.  What could she have done differently?  Why could she not make him happy?  Why, why, why will drive you nuts.

I am so glad I am no longer married to that son of a bitch.  Peace of mind is a wonderful thing.

SAM

It is hard to confront them.  You want them to straighten up but you are afraid if you do confront him he will think you are crazy, jealous and deny, deny, deny or worst case scenerio choose her over you.  The "what if‘s" will drive you nuts and the having to play detective will steal all your joy.  At least that is what I felt happened to me.

I would tell him as he is leaving that he has something he needs to think about on the drive there.  Long and hard because his decision will have direct consequences.  Choose either you or choose her and if he does choose her then don‘t come back.  That you will have his stuff bagged up and ready for him to pick up.  Tell him this with as little emotion and drama as you can and then say to be safe on his trip and for him to call you when he gets there and has decided.

Now I don‘t know if this will work or not and you still will have doubts even if he says he won‘t talk to her again.  I am sorry.

SAM

Of all things, I love a man who is confident.  Damn, that turns me on just thinking about that.

I think men fall in love with a woman they are attracted to and women are attracted to men they fall in love with.  I know that is true.

I like a tall man.  I am a tall girl--5‘10 and I love being able to wear high heel boots when I go out with my boyfriend.

I like a man with manners.  I like a man who compliments me and makes me feel pretty and special.  I eat that shit up!

I do not like pretty boys or prissy men.  I want to be the pretty and prissy one.  I want him to wait on me getting ready.  Not the other way around.  I was once married to a prissy pretty boy and it got old real quick.

A man‘s voice is important too.  I like a deep manly voice and a nice manly laugh.  I look at a man‘s hands and his arms.  Ideally they should be bigger and stronger than mine.

I like a man who will talk to me too.  About anything and everything.

This list could go on forever.  Interesting topic. 

SAM

This year was such a wonderful year for me, it will be hard to top.

I got divorced (finally) in July.  I met a very nice man this year who I like very much at this exact precise moment in time.  I had some "improvements" done on me just for me.  I have had some work done on my house too.  It was a good year!

Next year I want to focus less on me and more on my children and my friends and family.  I have been a bit selfish this year but that is ok because I needed to be.

I also hope to get a new (to me) vehicle in 2008.  I would love a pickup truck.  I would like to travel more next year too.

I told my husband‘s girlfriend she could have him and dummy her took him!  Now they are married and living in her hometown 2 miles from her job and about 5 miles from her parents.  He drives 2.5 hours one way to go to work (can you say DumbAss?) and is 4 hours away from his children and family.  He called me Saturday complaining about not having any money because it costs so much to drive back and forth and him having to pay so much child support.

I never blamed her.  I really should thank her because I was done with him long before she met him.  I just didn‘t want to admit it.  I have a feeling however that she won‘t be as sweet as I was and I look forward to seeing just how pussy whipped he will become.  He is off to a very good start!

sam

NC is really best.  I remember one time I broke down and spoke to him thinking it would make me feel better.  It didn‘t.  He was still as mean and manipulative as ever.  He twisted it around so that everything was my fault.  So talking to him made me feel worse.

What I had to do was remember that it doesn‘t matter how you feel, just don‘t call or talk to him.  Take how you feel out of the equation.  Just don‘t do it.  And it gets easier.  Takes a little while but it gets easier.  I promise.

And it is normal for you to think you don‘t want another man or will find another relationship.  You are grieving the loss of this one.  I am sure once some more time has gone by you will find someone special---YOU.  You need to rediscover who you are all over again.  I got to reinvent myself at age 42.  It is very exciting but very scary too.  Don‘t worry about not ever finding another man.  There are plenty of them out there and this time you need to find the right man for you.  That might take a little while but he sure will be worth the wait!

SAM

I secretly listen to old rap--NWA and Eminem especially when I don‘t have the kids in the car.  I love Kid Rock too.

I always wear matching jewelry.

I always wear matching underwear.  Just in case--ha ha.

Most days when I am in public running errands for the office I pretend to be Janice Dickerson--supermodel.  Work it baby!  I am very tall and do not hide it but always wear heels and am dressed to the nines.  Just in case.  I flirt outrageously.   I was never like this prior to the divorce.  I like the attention I get now.

I cuss like a sailor.  Not very ladylike but I don‘t care.

I drink way too much coffee and beer.

Life is good.

SAM

I am glad he is ok.  He is a very lucky young man. 

Someone told my mother once that when children are little you hold them on your lap and then when they get bigger you hold them in your heart.  My children are younger than yours so I still have a few years until they start driving.  I dread that.  My oldest nephew is driving now and I have forbid my children to ever ride with him.  My nephew also played around with fireworks the other week and got burned on his face so you can see why I don‘t trust his judgement.  I feel sorry for my sister sometimes!

SAM

I have been seeing a very nice man for several months now and have slowly introduced him to my children.  My son is 13 and my daughter is 11.  Usually I see my friend when the children are with their father but they have met him on a couple of occasions.  They know he is my boyfriend.  My son could care less but my daughter is very angry.  She tells me I can never remarry and is very passionate about this with tears and hates it when I even talk to this man on the phone.  She seems quite threatened by me seeing him and I don‘t know quite what to do. 

What throws me is that my former spouse cheated and exactly 90 days after the divorce was final married the woman he cheated with.  He introduced the children to her and her children and they did things as a blended family way before he remarried.  But no one blinked an eye.  My children really like his new wife and for this I am grateful.  But still I am like WTF and why am I being the one punished?

Have any of you been in this situation?  If so, what do you advise?

SAM

Thank you ladies--all good points and all good advice.  I appreciate it.

I am in no hurry to really take this relationship any further any time soon.  I tend to worry too much as it is and should just relax and let things go with the flow.  It is all going to work out.

Sometimes I just get a little overwhelmed by how unfair things seem.  I mean he cheated and began this big romance and remarried and bought a brand new house in a new state and essentially got to start his life over.  And did it in a big hurry too.  Better or worse that is what happened.  Now he says because he has to drive so far to get the kids he will only see them one weekend a month.  He chose her and her children over his own children in my opinion.  I am here 24/7 and the "go to" girl for pretty much everything as far as the children are concerned but I get dirty looks if I receive a phone call.  Just aggrevates me sometimes!

Thanks again,

SAM

I noticed you recently changed the avatar and thought the photo you have now is very nice.  You are gorgeous!  See, divorce makes you pretty!

sam

I would not want to be 16, 26 or 36 again.  No thank you very much.  I love being my age and I feel and look better than I ever have.  I am happier and I really like myself.  My life has changed so much within the last 5 years that it sometimes makes my head spin to think about it.  I am such a lucky girl.

sam

Good question.

My former spouse recently remarried and moved 4 hours away from his children to another state.  He had a perfectly fine job an hour away from his children yet he chose to move to where she was.  Now he drives 2.5 hours one way two times a day to go to work because they live in her hometown where her family and her job is.  Very convenient for her--terribly inconvenient and expensive for him.  Dumb Ass.  He called me a couple of weeks ago complaining about how much money it was costing him to commute to work and how far it is for him to come get the kids.  I had refused to meet him half way but I do drive further than what had been decided originally. I am trying to work with him--some.  Then he went on to say that he would now only see the children once a month as opposed to every other weekend due to "severe financial hardship" and then he went on to threaten to quit his job if I did not agree to drive further.  I told him do what he had to do but continue to pay the same amount of child support regardless and that I was having my own financial hardships and could he send me some extra money to pay for football, basketball, field trips, yearbooks and all the other stuff he never has to pay for.  No, that is not possible he said.  I just think he is the most *****whipped sorry son of a bitch walking the face of the earth.  I don‘t like him--ha ha.  Then to make matters worse, he called the other night about Christmas and told me all these expensive gifts he is buying the kids.  I guess his severe financial hardship is being supplemented by his new wife.  Must be nice.

I didn‘t mean to jack your thread but all this pisses me off because he pretty much has walked away from his children and did so when he moved and did not think things through about travel distance and their weekend sports and his work schedule.  I have no sympathy for him.  He is a dumb ass and will miss out on raising MY children while he will be busy raising HER children.  Too bad because I have very nice kids.

I agree with Lorrie.  It is the new p*ssy that these cheaters only think of.  All about them.  They see the children only when it is convenient for them.  Must be nice to have US as a back-up 24/7.

sam

I am sorry.  I was married nearly 20 years and we seperated right around Christmas 2 years ago so this time of year is not fun.

I can remember being so unhappy but not wanting to admit it to anyone even myself.  Several times the last few years we were together we would be talking or just doing mundain things and I would feel the words "I want a divorce!" in my throat and I would choke them down because I was too scared to say it.

When we did finally seperate and I filed for divorce I thought I would die.  But it got better.  Sunny, you have done the most difficult thing and that is to have made a decision.  It will not be easy at first but it does get easier every day.  Unfortunately you will never be rid of him--like me--because we have children.  But try not to talk to him or see him unless it is something related to the children.  And be good to yourself and do something that makes you feel pretty and try to surround yourself with people who love you and support you.  Do something fun with your children too.

It will get better.  I promise.  Let us know how you are.

SAM

Confidence.

A man who can handle any situation, any problem on his own with finese.  A person who can get things done.  I can‘t remember who said it but it is so true--competence is sexy.

A man who makes me feel pretty.  Is not prissy himself or stingy with compliments.  Who makes me feel he appreciates me being a woman.  Who lets me know he likes the way I look, feel and smell.

A man who can talk to people regardless of who they are or what they do or how much money they have.  Someone who has manners.   Who is honest and speaks his mind.  A man who can laugh.  Someone that makes me laugh.  Someone who works hard and has a good work ethic.   Someone who does not complain or bitch or whine constantly.  Someone who is generous in bed and also outside the bedroom.  Someone who is good with the money he has and is not stingy.  But doesn‘t flaunt it either.

A man that loves his family and shows it is very important to me.

And me personally, I need a big tall strong man since I am not a little tiny girl.  I like a man taller than me even when I am wearing my high heel boots. 

SAM

Do we ever really trust anyone completely 100% again?  I don‘t.  My heart is still guarded.  My current relationship is so different than what my marriage was.  It is what it is and for right now it works for me.  It is fun and that is what I need.  I just don‘t think I can ever love anyone that much ever again.

SAM

I think in many ways an EA is worse than a physical one.   Both are bad I guess but I could have maybe excused a one time f*ck but him falling in love with another woman couldn‘t be excused away.  There was no way to fix that.  I wasn‘t even going to try.  I was done.  Actually, I guess he was done first but I was the one who filed for divorce and set things in motion.  Best thing I ever did but very difficult at the time.  Took me a good year to kinda get over it.  Still getting over it, I guess.  No complaints---life is good.  Very good.

SAM

I am on the beer, coffee and cigarette diet again.  I know it is not healthy but it honestly has worked.  And I don‘t have to share with the children either--ha ha.

Personally I think women should have some softness to them.  Women should have curves and feel good to touch.  We have to work with what nature gave us.  I am tall (5‘10) but I will never be model super thin.

I worry about my daughter who is 12.  She already feels allot of pressure to be skinny and pretty.  She is tall and athletic and smart and a beautiful person inside and out and I hate to see her become unhappy because she thinks she is different than the other girls her age or is not as skinny as Hannah Montanna or some other movie star.  That **** makes me mad!

SAM

Lorrie, I quit mine cold too.  I gave him to her and good riddance.  Can you imagine?  As a man your wife tells your girlfriend that she can have you.  No fight whatsoever.  And dummy her took him.  Some women just have no sense. 

The OW doesn‘t get it.  Maybe they think because they feel good, everyone else feels good.  Maybe they think if the man wants her, then he shouldn‘t remain married to his wife.  ‘Cause they are in love and that she is doing him a favor.  Who knows?

I know this though.  I sleep good at night.  And that Karma is a mean old bitch! 

SAM

What gets me is that we are always the "back up plan" for them while they move on and do what they need to do or have to do.  But if you are like me, you have to weigh decisions you make--whether to move, change jobs, remarry--based on how it would affect the children. I personally feel like my life is in a holding pattern right now.   Good or bad, I feel stuck.   My former spouse gave no thought what so ever to his children but up and moved 4 hours away when he didn‘t really "have to".  He just wanted to and knew I would be the back up plan.  Now that he is remarried, he has another back up plan--his new wife since she helps with the children too.  Must be nice.

I am sorry I am not being very encouraging but if it helps I am right there with you.  Some days it is very difficult.  But then there are little victories and joys too like my son who made a book shelf in shop class and gave it to ME for Christmas.  He was so proud and pleased to give it to me and told his father that he gave it to ME.  Got to love that.

Hang in there!
SAM

Take a humorous approach and do what I did, ask him for his full name, date of birth, home address and other pertinant information so you can do the needed criminal background check on him prior to meeting.  Tell him that sooner or later you will also need a DNA sample and will have to run a credit check.  Confirm that he does not have a wife, a girlfriend or that there is any chance of some woman coming after you with a pistol if you go out with him.  Say it in a humorous way but be serious too.

I met my friend via the internet and he gave me all the information I needed to know prior to meeting him.  If there is nothing to hide, I think he will give you information.   My friend told me everything including his driver‘s license number and ss# (not smart but was useful in getting information) and I did run a background check on him before I went out with him on a real date.  We met for a glass of iced tea for our first date.  You want to meet for coffee or over a drink usually in the daytime in a very public place and have an excuse as to why you cannot stay long--you have to get back to work or you need to run see a sick friend or something to cut it short if you need to.  And you can find allot of information free on the internet too to at least confirm some of what they tell you--their address, phone number.  Find out where they work too.  And I was sure to forward the background report and other information to my sister too just so someone knew who I was talking to.  You have to be careful especially if you have children.  I think a mature confident man will understand you wanting to be cautious and you wanting to get more information from him than he will get from you at first. 

Good luck!

SAM

ps.  And let him get there at the meeting place a few minutes before you do.  I remember the first time I met my friend, he was already inside waiting at the front and he got to watch me walk across the parking lot and into the restaurant and that was soooo much fun!  He had asked how he would know it was me (he met me sight unseen--I never posted a photo) and I told him "honey, it will be hard to miss me".  I am nearly 6 ft tall and blonde and was dressed in a killer black short skirt.  That was almost a year ago and we have been seeing each other ever since.  Fun, fun, fun!

The best coffee is whatever is already made and ready!  I don‘t like fancy coffee.  Just give me Folgers or Maxwell House or whatever but no speciality roasts or flavors.  Just add half and half or liquid creamer and I am happy.  I drink coffee all day long and into the night.  The older I get the more I love my coffee.  The most important thing I do every day is set up the coffee maker to be ready to automatically make coffee the next morning.  Now, I am convinced a woman thought of that invention.  She was darn smart!

SAM

I don‘t care for diamonds.  I like opals and garnets.  Opal is my mother‘s birthstone and I have always loved garnets.  Together they are gorgeous.  I have bought myself several rings, bracelets, earrings and a necklace off eBay. Gifts to me from me.  I figure I am worth it and I have gotten very good deals.  I have pretty much given away all the jewelry my former spouse bought me so I wanted something nice to replace it.  I like for all my jewelry to match.  I would never wear silver and gold although people tell me that is ok.  I do however have several silver pieces with turquoise.  I like turqouise allot too.

SAM

He is a nut.  Him cheating is least of your worries.  You need to worry about him hurting your physically or you losing all money due to that house you bought with him.  You need to come up with an exit plan and get out of this mess immediately.

And cheaters always say the other person is a "friend".  My husband was counseling a "friend".  Hmm.  The cell phone got him too.  Left a trail a mile long or in his case $500 wide.  And they will always try to convince you that you are imagining things or you don‘t trust them or how could you think they could do something like that.  They try to throw the blame back on you to try to keep you in line and it ends up that you feel guilty because they misbehaved.  At least that is how it used to be for me.   F*ck that sh*t!

Get out.

SAM

I am a Sagitarius and he is a Cancer.  After we split, I read that this combination is the worst possible one.  The man I am seeing now is a Leo and from what I have read this should be a very good match.

I am not sure I believe in astology but I do think birth order can come into play.  I am the eldest of 4 girls and my former spouse is the youngest of 3 boys.  Obviously I know nothing about men and he being the mama‘s baby boy that he is knew nothing about women.  The man that I am seeing now is the oldest of 4 children and he is the only son.  Maybe this will be a better match since he is the eldest and used to being around women.  Who knows?

I have no idea what my former spouse‘s astrological sign or birth order is.  I just hope for her sake she is patient and able to budget!

SAM

About middle children, I don‘t know.  They always have the reputation of being bad--ha ha.  I always have heard "ah, one of those middle children--that explains it".  I would think middle children have to be very social and be able to read people and be adaptable since they have to deal with their parents, older siblings and the babies of the family.

I think we are who we are.

I have also read that my sign Sagitarius is the promiscuous one and I don‘t think that it true.  We might be the prettiest but not necessarily the sluttiest--ha ha.

SAM

So now the whore knows the woman she saw with your daughter was not you?  Too bad.  Because you could have told your friend to slap the **** out of her on your behalf if she (the whore) ever comes near your daughter again.  Then the whore would have thought it was you slapping her and gone on her merry way.

Why in the world would this woman (the whore) want to introduce herself to your daughter?  That is crazy.  I am assuming that the whore is not with Cakeman any more.  Am I right?  Then this whole situation was retarded. 

SAM

I haven‘t given it much thought.  Probably pay off my credit card and be done once and for all with that.

BUT how nice it is that any money I get, I get to spend how I want.  That is such a benefit of not being married any more!  Gosh, I can only think of about a million other benefits too.  Can you tell that I had to be around the ex this weekend?  He is such a DA!

SAM

I had to see the ex this weekend and he was arrogant and stupid as usual.  Takes allot of effort or maybe just natural talent to be both arrogant and stupid but he managed.  I met his new wife for the first time and I like her allot more than I like him.  Maybe she and I can be friends after all--ha ha.  No, not really.

My so called boyfriend did nothing for Valentines Day.  Called and wished me a Happy Valentine‘s Day.  Big Whoop.  Then when I saw him later that day he told me that he was a sh*tty boyfriend for not having brought me any flowers or candy or a card.  I did not disagree with him.  He is loaded for money too and has a cell phone so how hard is it to call the florist and charge it on his credit card?  I am not asking him to pick the damn flowers personally or melt the chocolate himself.  He told me to get a babysitter for Saturday which I did and I ended up getting a Subway sandwich for dinner and him falling asleep on me on the couch.  I fell asleep too but we are not talking about me--ha ha.

There was a death in my former spouse‘s family and I had to go with the children to the funeral.  DA picked them up ahead of time and took them so I had to walk in by myself.  My boyfriend knew how upset I was and also how I dreaded going to another funeral by myself.  Did he offer to come?  No. 

Is there just something about me that makes men not want to be nice to me or take care of me?  I see how some women get catered to or treated like they are so fragile (case in point my former mother in law) but I get sh*t.  And she is not a nice person either. What the hell am I doing wrong?  Why is it that someone who is nice (that would be me) cannot get the same back?

I am ready to give up men.  Well, I already gave up one (that would be DA) and now I am ready to give up this other one too.  WTF is up with men?  Do women have to be bitches and needy and just come out and tell them the obvious to get a Valentines gift or have them offer to help?

Just wondering and just venting,

SAM

ps.  I read this again and I come across as being whiny.  That is really not me.  And I really don‘t want a man to take care of me.  I can take care of myself and I do very well, thank you very much.  It would just be nice to not always feel so all alone sometimes--emotionally.

It is what it is.

Things happen for a reason.

Karma is a bitch.

Divorce makes you pretty.

I find myself saying this allot too:  Don‘t hit your brother!  Stay away from your sister.  But that is another thread.

SAM

I wish you could have the state take the child support from his wages and directly pay you but Cakeman works for himself, right?  Then this is most likely not possible. 

Let him take a second job, beg, steal or borrow the money.  He needs to pay and fast.  He would do this if he owed money to anyone else.   I wouldn‘t play games with him or let him get away with anything.  The others are right because he will think he won‘t have to pay you and he will get further and further behind and you will have a heck of a time getting the money.

Think about it this way--he might pay a portion of his income for child support but you as the custodial parent pay with ALL your income to support your child.  I know my entire paycheck goes to take care of my children.  I just don‘t write out a check every month for child support.  It all goes.  And fast too!

Do not feel sorry for him.  I feel sorry for YOU that he is once again up to tricks.  I would give him a firm deadline and do your best to stick to it.  You don‘t have to make excuses for him any more.  I am good and p*ssed now!

SAM

Well, did you send the letter?  What happened?

I didn‘t read your post/letter until today and the only recommendation I would make would be that you shorten it.  Not to be sterotypical (well actually maybe I am) most men might not actually take the time to read such a long letter.  I know the man I am seeing probably wouldn‘t.  Sad but true.

sam

I would tell her that it is not everything the man tells her.  That the wife is not necessarily a bitch or that they are getting a divorce or that they have a marriage in name only or he is waiting for some milestone (kids graduate, he gets a promotion or whatever) and he will file for divorce.  I had a good friend who was the OW and he kept giving her excuse after excuse after excuse as to why he never would file those papers.  She kept extending her deadline for him to get divorced over and over and over again.  He will never leave his wife.  My friend finally wised up and moved on.

My former spouse told his girlfriend at the time all sorts of lies and I am very confident that if I had told him to drop her and come home he would have.  But I had enough. I think most married men who cheat are happy to stay married and cheat.  They want the little honey on the side to keep things exciting and the wife at home to keep things comfortable and easy for them.

Wonder if a cheating woman‘s husband ever talk about the OM (other man) like we talk about the OW?  I have never seen that anywhere.  Wonder why not?

SAM

I married the only man I dated and was married nearly 20 years so I understand being a bit nervous about dating.  It took me a full year after my seperation before I even wanted to consider going out with another man.  Prior to that I had murder of just about all men on my mind so I had some issues to work through--ha ha.   Then something just "clicked" and I knew I was ready to talk to men or go out.   I decided to go online to meet men because I did not want my co-workers, family or friends to get involved.  It was my business and my business alone.  My strategy was simple (and sorta dumb):  I would do some practice dates over coffee with some unattractive men just to build my confidence.  Now, doesn‘t that sound horrible but that is what my big plan was.  I did go out with a few men who were very nice but not for me.  I did get fooled because this one man who did not look attractive in his picture on line was very attractive in person.  I was almost disappointed--ha ha.  He and I have been seeing each other now for nearly a year and I like him allot most days.  Other days--not so much--ha ha.

I would say to you to put yourself in situations where you can easily talk to women and where it seems natural.  Grocery store is a good place.  Men always talk to me at the grocery store for some reason.  Maybe I look like someone who knows how to cook or something.  Just talking one on one and over nothing in particular might boost your confidence.  Join a club or go to church or take a class where you think there might be women will open doors for you.

To me, confidence in a man is the most attractive thing.  I love a man who is confident in himself and any situation.  Manners are important too.  Flattery will get you just about anywhere as far as I am concerned.  I love the sweet talk.

Take it slow and do some practicing.  Talk to women at the grocery store.  Flirt with women at the post office.  Build your confidence.  This is supposed to be fun too so don‘t take any rejection personally and keep it all light.  It is all good.

SAM

I was the first one in my family to graduate from college too.  I don‘t think I could do it again if I had to now.  I am not as smart as I used to be and not willing to stay up late any more--at least not to study! 

I was thinking this thread was about ME too. 

I have known allot of women--and mean of me to say--somewhat unattractive women who appear to be very happily married.  I have heard their husbands say such wonderful loving things to them or demonstrate outwardly their love and devotion for them that it makes me want to cry because it is so sweet and tender.  

It is how the other person feels when they are with you that makes someone attractive.  I don‘t know.  My former spouse wandered (or maybe I just caught him) when I was at my thinnest and most attractive.  So what is up with that?

I think your theory is flawed.  Some of the most attractive people are the loneliest. 

I am sure of one thing however.  Getting divorced does make you pretty.  It has for me.  The spiteful part of me just hopes my ex (and all his family too for that matter) can see how much prettier and happier I am now without him.  Living well and looking fabulous really is the very best revenge.   Well, that and selling off all his old stuff too--ha ha.

SAM

Oh, how exciting!  I would love to do dance lessons.  How fun!  I would be too chicken to do it though.  Sadly, I have 2 left feet.  Some of those dances are pretty sexy too.  Enjoy!

SAM

My former spouse had this "friendship" and was "counseling" a woman going through a divorce.  I looked the other way for months and believed him until I started looking very closely at the cell phone bill.  I got my hands on his phone one night and saw a text from him to her and that is when I knew 100% he was in love with another woman.

When I confronted him about this, he told me it never got physical and that he only "held her hand".  I find it hard to believe a 40 year old man is happy to stay at the hand holding stage long.  I actually talked to her and she filled in some of the missing blanks.  I was more upset than anything about the fact that he discussed me with her.  That he had this emotional bond with her that he used to have with me.

To me, EA affairs are worse than physical ones.  I maybe could have forgiven him for just sex but this relationship he had with this woman was way beyond sex.  And what gets me is that he denied loving her and wanting her.  He would have come home if I had let him.  If I had been her, that would have hurt me.  He is such a liar.  I feel sorry for her.

SAM

Probably allot of us have sons.  I do.  I don‘t hate men because I am trying to raise one right now but I do not understand men sometimes.  I have no problem with men in general but there is one man (and sometimes another one) in specific I take great delight in not liking very much.

I have said this before too.  There are allot of horrible rotten women out there who have taken advantage of some very nice men.  I have seen this myself and I shake my head with wonder.   I am constantly amazed at what some women get away with. 

There are givers and takers.  End of story.

SAM

I am assuming your wife does not work outside of the home.

I will probably get slammed but I can understand completely the feeling of having to do it all.  I have always worked and the hardest thing I had to do was leave my tiny babies with someone else to go back to work fulltime.  Not working outside the home was never even an option for me.  Then I found myself being the one who did all the cleaning and cooking and paying the bills and keeping everything organized.  After a while, I got very resentful of having to do it all.  I can remember thinking to myself that it must be nice to just go to work and not have anything else to worry about.  Just show up.  That is what he did.  And still does.

The thing about resentment is that it will not go away on its own.  It will get worse unless you come up with some solution.  Granted, your children are little and things are complicated and hectic right now but you still need to talk to her.  If you need to get some help to get things picked up, it would be worth the money to pay someone do this.  Could your mother or her mother or another family member help out once a week?  Or have an area of the home that is just your work space.  Or an area of the house that is just for the kids where you can close a door and not have to look at the clutter.  Or use paper plates and plastic cups that everyone could throw away instead of worrying about washing dishes.

I don‘t know.  I do know that my resentment towards my former spouse got to the point that I lost all respect I did have for him.  I still loved him but did not respect him and for a woman to feel no respect for her husband is a very very bad thing.

And one more thing--a woman will treat a man nicely both inside and outside of the bedroom if she feels he is treating her nicely.  Even if you are frustrated with her right now, be nice to her.  Compliment her on how pretty she is.  Tell her you love her.  Even if you don‘t feel very lovingly towards her.  You being nice to her will make her want to be nicer to you too.

Good luck.

SAM

I am sorry. 

What would you tell a friend to do if she were in your situation?  Sometimes you have to just take the emotion out of it and do what needs to be done.  It sounds like you are doing all the right things.  How bad you feel about doing the right thing just doesn‘t matter.  This is life and death.  Acknowledge your feelings but feeling bad is not going to change the awful situation or change him.  There is no looking back.  You have to move on and do not have any contact with him.

You need to be around people who will support you and help you get through this.  Finding this website is a good start.  Stand strong!
SAM

This is so sad to hear. 

You may be able to help the husband more than her.  Many times it is the caregiver who needs help or just a break sometimes.  I know it is early now but later on down the line he might need someone just to talk to and listen to him.  You and your family might be able to help him in this way.  Maybe you could find out what resources are available in the community to help him and his wife.  I think the idea of dropping off food is a good one too.  Make a little extra and freeze it so they can reheat it when they need it.  Might want to ask every now and then if they need something from the store or if there is an errand you could help them with.

I think the fact that you are trying to be a good neighbor and friend to them will mean more than anything else.  Situations like this make us feel so helpless and I think you will feel better knowing that you tried to help.  Sometimes it is the little things like picking up their mail or dropping off a casserole or watching the children for a couple of hours that can make a big difference.  You are very kind to want to help them. 

SAM

I had my breasts done and a tummy tuck in September.  I am very happy with the results.  I borrowed the money to have this done.  I consider it a car payment for the car I never drive.  What is wonderful is prior to me getting a divorce, I couldn‘t get a credit card because somebody had terrible credit (can you guess who?).  All I did was ask my bank for a loan and sign my name on the dotted line and I was approved for a signature loan.

I would do it all again in a heartbeat.  I feel sexier and better about myself.  And I did it for ME and only me.

I don‘t think there is anything wrong with self improvement but I also don‘t think there is anything wrong with leaving things as they are either.  I looked pretty darn good prior to having surgery--ha ha.  All women are beautiful in my opinion.  Just some are lucky to get a little help.  I am a very lucky girl!

SAM

The hardest thing for me after having the babies was finding ME time.  Find a babysitter or a family member to watch the baby and then you and your significant other go out on a REAL date where YOU get all dressed up (he can wear what he wants--you are the star here--ha ha) and actually get out of the house.  Plan a couple of dates like this at least 2 times a month.  Flirt with him and begin to build the anticipation of going out and having a big night together.  Go get your toes done and buy you something pretty to wear when you go out.  You deserve it!

SAM

ps.  I had a hard time sometimes breaking out of that mommy mode into being that red hot mama mode.  I really think hormones had allot to do with it and the fact I worked all the time and never wanted to leave the children with anyone when I was not at work.  Or it could be the fact I didn‘t really like my former spouse that much even back then.  Sad but true.

Right now I am in love with my dishwasher because it was broken for about 1.5 months.  I sure missed it. 

Setting the coffeemaker for the next day is the most important thing I do every day.  I am not joking either.

When I was married, the man who lived in my house thought he was a gourmet cook and had all kinds of gadgets and fancy ingredients and expensive spices.  When he left at my suggestion,  I kept all the good pans and took great delight in throwing out all the ridiculous incredients.  My kids are 12 and 14 and would be happy to eat ramen noodles every day.  I cook rather simply anyway.  We also used to be subjected to a hell of a lot of Food TV but not any more although that Anthony Bordaine was quite yummy.  He even helped me out by moving to the Travel Channel.

Interesting thread.

SAM

I am sorry.  I was hoping things were getting better.

Who knows why they do what they do?  I will never understand it.  My whole world is going to work and taking care of children and helping my parents and my family.  Every dime I make goes for "child support".  I do not understand how a man (or a woman if that was the case) would let their children go without.  I think many times these ex spouses were the takers in the marriage and somehow they think we still love them and will let them get away with whatever because they think we are stupid or maybe because they know we were the nice ones.  I am not so nice anymore.  In fact I am downright mean and loving it.  I wish, Lorrie, you could have the state take out the child support directly.  I had this done and it completely takes DA out of the equation.  I never have to deal with him.  I just pray he keeps his job. 

Hope things get better.

SAM

I have always said I am amazed at what some women get away with.  How some women can be so mean and nasty and take some poor nice man to the cleaners. And he will keep on giving to her over and over and over.  Maybe they have a golden p*ssy or something.  I don‘t know.  And there are allot of women cheaters out there too.  They just have better sense than to come to this site, I guess.

I think there are givers and takers and you probably marry the opposite of who you are.  Givers like to give and takers enjoy the giver giving.

What I do not understand about men and bare with me because I am retarded when it comes to men, is that they seem to like it when a naturally nice caring beautiful woman (that would be me--ha ha) gets pissy with them.  It is like they respect and like the bitch or something.  I don‘t think men are good at reading our minds either and for God‘s sake cannot take a hint to save their lives.  My problem is that I feel I shouldn‘t have to explain the obvious to him and I take it personally when he does not get it.  Sometimes I feel like I am expecting too much and accepting too little from him.  Dating in your 40‘s is just like being in high school again.  Too much drama going on in my head.

Can‘t we all just get along?

SAM

I am sorry.

You know what you heard.  Cheaters will stick to the same lie over and over no matter what and try to make you feel crazy or paranoid or make you feel bad for not trusting them.  You have to be careful because after awhile you will stop believing what you saw or heard and believe what you want to hear from them.  It is almost like they will hyponotize you or something.  You want to believe them--desperately too.  He would never lie to me.  He loves me.  Bull****.  My former spouse denied his girlfriend countless times, said she was just a friend, that he was "counseling" her, that she wasn‘t even attractive to him, whatever.  But less than 3 months after our divorce was final, he married her.  And I made sure all his family knew her name too so they would know I did not make up this story about him and her like he told them all.  Big fat liar that he is!

Actions speak louder than words too.  I would tell him to bring me the certificate or proof of rehab and then you and he can talk about where you go from there.  This buys you some time too to get prepared if you do decide to divorce.

You are at the "what if" stage and that is the hardest part.  Trying to make a decision.  I wish you good luck.  I knew I could never trust my former spouse again and I did not want to play detective the rest of my life.  I would rather be alone than be that unhappy.  But the funny thing is that now I am the most happiest I have ever been.  I love my life now and I should have kicked his ass out years ago!

SAM

ME always makes me laugh and sometimes makes me think.  Sometimes--ha ha.

I have never had a problem with her or anyone else here.

The thing I like about this site is that it is so unpredictable and honest and quirky and fun.  I think ME is all of those things too.

SAM

I was really surprised to hear about this too.  I am thinking she is wanting to sell a book or something.  Why else spill the beans?  I am sure the man involved is livid.

I have to tell you that I have lost respect for her too.

SAM

I agree.  I missed those big hugs where my former spouse would wrap me tight with his arms.  Or holding his hand.  It was so hard after we seperated for me to not say "I love you" too on the phone--just habit I guess.   And I remember how weird it was to not be able to call him when something really great happened or something really horrible happened--I just did not have him as that one person I wanted to call first with news.  I too lost my best friend.

My divorce was final last July but we have not lived together in nearly 3 years.  Sometimes I find it hard to remember what it used to be like.  I guess I have actually moved on althought I thought I would die.  It gets better as time passes.  This is a good thing.  I have a boyfriend now and he gives great hugs, holds my hand more than my husband ever did and he is now the one who I call first.  Sorta sad how one person can be replaced with another one. 

SAM

It is a sad but now you have some closure too.  You will do great!  Getting divorced is closing one chapter of your life and now beginning another.  You get to reinvent yourself and start over.  You will love the woman you will become and just think how far you have come already!

Do something nice for yourself today.

SAM

I look at my ex and I see how out of shape and fat and greasy he is and I shake my head and wonder why I cried over him 6 months straight.  I hear from the children what a short leash his new wife has on him and I secretly laugh to myself because I never was like that with him.  She yells at him and controls every penny he spends--ha ha.  He drives nearly 150 miles one way to go to work while she drives 10 minutes to her job.  They live in her hometown very close to her parents.  Does he miss me and the life we used to have?  I‘d like to think so.  I hope he sees how tan and slim and pretty and happy I am.  Hope he sees that I now have a little money to spend on myself that I never had when I was married to him.  I hope he and she realize how much I appreciate them watching my children for a day or so, so I can have some grownup time with my boyfriend.  I have to laugh about that.  The woman he cheated with now gets to babysit my children for me for free so I can spend time with my boyfriend.  Granted it is not often but even once a month is nice and always makes me laugh.

Girls, hang in there.  It does get better.  It is what it is and you might as well laugh and do the best you can.  Live so well that these men are sick at heart that they let you get away.  You were the prize after the all and they lost something very valuable.  Remember that.

SAM

Hello Lorrie,

LD is pretty active on the other site and so is Susan. They are both so helpful to those other ladies there and always so kind especially Susan.  LD led me to think that she might even be thinking of getting married again--will wonders never cease?  Susie had back surgery and other complications so we have not heard from her in awhile.  I think she is ok.  Just not at a computer as much anymore.  You need to come visit soon although allot of our old gang is gone.  Just another crop of new ones with broken hearts.  I try to liven things up every now and then but haven‘t had allot of luck.

I am fabulous.  Thanks for asking.

And how are you?

SAM

I would like to outlaw people who cannot drive.

I think people who go "shopping" at the donation bins should be shot.  I hate seeing people do this and they do it allot.  We see what you are doing--you are not fooling us by pretending to drop off one thing and steal 5 things.

I cannot stand it in advertisement when words are misspelled or simply created.  Like E-Z or Kwik.  That drives me crazy.  That and the misuse of an apostrophe.

Sunny, there are some nice tankinis out there.  I am thinking about getting one myself.  Look at the Victoria Secret website and there are even some good options for people our age.  And I had a tummy tuck last fall and it is fabulous. 

Lorrie, I remember when I was lamenting about the fact I could never in a million years let some other man besides my dumb ass soon to be ex husband see me naked and one of the girls at work surprised me by saying "it is fun for someone besides your ex-husband to see you naked".  That made me laugh but you know what, it is true.  It is fun!  I say go for it!  And then tell us all about it--ha ha.

SAM

I can only speak for myself but we do not see it offered much here in Alabama.  At least not where I am.  Once years ago I was invited to my Indian friend/employee‘s house and she made authenic Indian curry and it was very good but spicy.  I liked it allot but my children would have hated it.  Too spicy and hot for their tastes.

Why do you ask?

SAM

What I do not understand is why is it I have to be somewhat cool towards the man I am seeing in order to get his attention?   Why do men or at least some men respond to bitchiness?  It seems like the meaner a woman is toward a man the more they like it.  Sweet girls like me get ran over.  I find myself restraining myself from calling or doing nice things for the man I am seeing just in order to keep things balanced between us.  I am confused.  Stay that way most days.

What is funny though is that when I was married I was so nice to my husband and now his new wife has him fetching and carrying.  Can you say pu$$y whipped?  I love it!

SAM

I dont miss:

watching the food channel 24/7

his snoring

not knowing how much money he would spend and worrying if the checks I had written to pay bills would bounce

his mother

crying all day at work because he was "upset" with me

his temper and sarcasm and his huge ego which I had to feed constantly

waiting on him to get ready--he is a prissy thing

having to clean up the kitchen after he got in there and made some fancy gourmet sh*t that the kids couldn‘t eat

ironing his work clothes

taking care of him all the time--he really was like my oldest child. 

Too much work.  Too much drama.  My life is so much better now and I am so lucky.

SAM

Yep, they will tell you a lie and try to convince you that you are crazy for thinking that about them.  And part of you will want to believe them because you would never do something like that to them so why would they do this to you?  You will go crazy.  What I finally had to do is ask myself--what would I say if a friend told me the same story if it had happened to her?  Put some perspective on things.

Cheaters and liars will say the same thing over and over and over even when they are caught.   I confronted my husband (at the time) over a text message I read and he just about had me believing I had misread it.  Yeah, right.  I wanted to believe him even seeing what he wrote with my own eyes.  And he was "just friends" with her and "counseling" her through her divorce.  Yeah, right.  He must be a good counselor because they are married now.

And I will be honest with you, sometimes when I am feeling weak, I think to myself--did I misunderstand things?  But then I look at it this way too--even if I had misunderstood things would I want to be with a man so f*cking dumb that things could be misunderstood so badly?  No.

I couldn‘t stand the drama.  I am much happier now than ever when I was married.  He was way too much work.  I got tired of playing detective and feeling lousy all the time.  I love being divorced and should have done it years ago.  I recommend it highly--ha ha.

SAM

I don‘t think she will leave her husband.  Between the two of you, she has it made.  He provides the stability and you provide the excitement.  I wouldn‘t want things to change either if I were her.  But, what do you want?

SAM

I don‘t get involved with married men.  Hell, it is hard enough to be involved with unmarried men--ha ha.  My next boyfriend needs to be an orphan who never married or had children.

I think some people can compartmentalize and put emotions in one box, security or their work in another box, their family (children) in another one.  Some people can live double lives very easily.  No guilt.  Keep all the little compartments seperate.  My former spouse was one of them.  He liked living a double life but was real bad at covering his tracks.  The cell phone did him in.

Back to the poster though, if the woman involved got to keep her financial security by staying married but got to have some fun every now and then had her emotional needs met by the other man, why would she change things?  The OM knew she was married from the get-go so he really cannot pressure her to leave her husband.  It is win-win for her and most likely a losing situation for him if he really loves her.  Not ideal at all.

SAM

The man I am seeing would fit in this category.

I remember once we were out and had a flat tire.  It took him less than 10 minutes start to finish to change the tire. No drama or cussing.   I was so impressed. 

I don‘t like pretty men.  I like a man to have to wait on me to get ready.

Now if we could just get them to send some flowers every now and then.

SAM

I am sorry.  It is hard to imagine a world without our fathers, isn‘t it?  My father passed away suddenly last month on April 18th and it still does not seem real.  He was 83 and was the strongest man in the world in my eyes.

I hope you will be ok and have friends and family close by to talk to.  We are both so lucky to have had such strong wonderful fathers.  They would not want us to be unhappy and sad but to carry on and live our lives to the fullest.  I know your father would be proud of you and all the help you have given women here.

SAM

You are just a baby.  34 is not old at all.  I was 43 when I got divorced and began my new improved life.

Sometimes you have to do things to make yourself feel good.  Sometimes you have to fake it until you actually feel good too.  Do nice things for yourself.  Things that make you feel feminine and pretty.  But the most sexy attractive thing anyone can have--and this is for men and women--is confidence.  That is what is attractive.  You have to hold your head up and smile at people and act like you are the best thing since sliced bread.  And you are, baby!  You have to sometimes make yourself laugh when you feel like crying.

I am sure you are a gorgeous woman.  I never thought I was until most recently.  It took a divorce for me to find out how remarkable I really am.  Now I am so in love with myself it is sad--ha ha.  Hold your head up high and know how important you are to so many people.  Know how special you are.  Do some things on the outside to make the inside of you feel better too.  You deserve it.

SAM

I would send him something.  Flowers or some cookies or a gift certificate to somewhere he likes to go.  Enclose a nice card and tell him you are sorry.  Ask him in the card to call you when he is ready to talk.  Tell him in the card you need to apologize again to him.

Good luck.

You are in a no win situation.

You know he is up to no good but you have to "pretend" like you trust him.  You are going against your gut feeling.

I found myself in a very similar position and decided to get a divorce.

You will either have to find another boyfriend or settle for how things are.  He will never admit to no good and it might take you awhile to gather enough proof.  I do not envy you.

SAM

This is how it starts.  With the cell phone and the texts and the computer.

Sometimes I hate technology.  It makes it so easy to cheat.

Your wife is having an affair--emotionally.  In my opinion this is often worse than a physical affair.

Good luck to you,

SAM

I am sorry.

You are going to feel badly no matter what you do.  If you stay with him, you will try to smile and act like nothing happened but you will feel bad and play detective because you do not trust him.  If you kick him to the curb, you will feel bad because you will miss the man you used to be married to and mourn the loss of your marriage.  There is no winning for losing at first.

So, sometimes you have to take feelings out of the equation because like I said you will feel bad no matter what you do.  I could not live with a cheater once I had proved to myself 100% he was a cheater.  Once I decided--no matter how awful I felt--I was committed to being done.  Once you have made a decision one way or the other you can start to move on.  And I think too the fear of the unknown too keeps us in a marriage allot longer than we should stay.  At least this was the case for me. 

For me, I should have divorced years ago.  I am now very happy.  Happy with myself and my new life.  I got to reinvent myself and I am proud of how well I have done.  There for awhile I felt like I was going to curl up and die but then I snapped out of it.  Life is way way too short to be unhappy.  If you stay with him, you will be unhappy for a long time unless something changes.  If you leave him, you might be very unhappy for a relatively short time and then be able to move on and start your life again.  My vote is to move on.

What is the deal with your sister?  How will you ever get past this with her and repair your relationship?  That would be a hard one.

SAM

The best revenge for you would be for you to look fabulous, live well and be happy.  A goal all of us should strive to achieve!

The best revenge for me was for the OW to have married my former spouse.  I told her she could have him and dummy her took him.  Nothing kills romance faster than being married to a selfish, childish, arrogant, sarcastic, prissy man who is horrible with money and has to be "managed".  I think of her as his new manager because he is clueless in so many way.  I am thinking there is trouble in paradise big time.  Too bad, so sad.  Whatever.  Glad I am not his manager any more.

For you, I would stop seeing him socially and begin seeing someone else.  You deserve your own man.  And think of this too.  When you are out with your new friend, the OW and your old cheater exhusband will be babysitting your children for free.  Got to love that.

Put some time and money and energy into you now.  Take a class or develop a new hobby.  Get a new look.  Buy some new clothes.  Make some new friends--male and female so you are not sitting at home by yourself if the kids are with him.   Anything that will make you feel better about you.  Do some nice things for you.  You deserve it.  Now is the time for you to be a little selfish and focus on YOU. 

So the best revenge any of us could inflict on the other woman would be for her to have our cheating lying useless exhusband while we look so so pretty, living the best life we can being as happy as we can be.  I am hell bent on doing this myself.  Who wants to join me?

SAM

I suspected cheating for a couple of years but never had 100% proof.  So for years I thought maybe I was crazy to feel this way.  I was conflicted--my gut told me one thing and his lying lips told me something else.  With the last time, the thing that got me was the text messages I saw that he had sent to her--stating that he loved her and that she made him happier than he had been in years.  I might could have dealt with him having a fling and realizing he made a mistake and him saying he was sorry and us trying to make it work but I could not and would not deal with my husband falling in love with another woman.

And too, by this time I was so tired of his ****.  There were other problems in the marriage.  His cheating was my excuse to finally be rid of him.  The straw that broke the camel‘s back.  I was tired of his spending, tired of his sarcasm and mean temper, tired of his never ending midlife crisis, tired of him not being able to keep a job, tired of being his mother essentially.  I had lost all respect for him even though I still loved him.  I don‘t know if that makes sense to you or not.

I thought I would be married forever.  I was married nearly 20 years.  The thought of my children no longer having their father around made me sad.  The thought of being all alone made me scared.  BUT, in all honesty, he had already checked out emotionally a long time ago and he had never been a hands on father.  The adjustment was really allot easier than I thought it would be.

I wish I had divorced years ago.  I was much much lonelier when I was married than I am now.  There is nothing worse than being in an unhappy marriage in my opinion.  At first I blamed myself--I wasn‘t good enough or pretty enough or sexy enough and why why why or whatever.  Bull****!  It just didn‘t work out, that is all and him involving a third party just showed his poor character and did nothing but royally piss me off.  I am not his friend any more--ha ha.

I am lucky.  I got to start all over at age 42.  It is what it is and my life is fabulous.  Not bragging--just stating the truth. I am amazed myself at how happy I am most days.

What is funny is that when you get to sick back and watch the cheater reap what he sows.  Oh, it is so wonderful to watch all the little twists and turns and see from an observer‘s view point all the little problems and drama that follows him.  Wonderful to watch.  Even more wonderful to not have to be part of it.  He is such an idiot.  I feel sorry for his wife.  I tried to warn her but she did not listen.

SAM

You are a good friend and it is remarkable that you were able to stay neutral.  Most people naturally take sides.  I know I do.

I think most people see other people‘s situation and drama unfolding before them like you would a train wreck.  You know what is coming but you are helpless to do anything to stop it.  And most cheaters (in my opinion) do not broadcast what sneaky things they are doing because they know they are wrong and want to avoid criticism and allot of them want to keep that option to come home if the affair does not last anyway. 

I am surprised your friend was comfortable with you counseling her husband.  Most people want you to be on their side and their side alone.  My husband "counseled" another woman during her divorce and guess what?  He married her after I divorced him.  I think there is another word for the kind of counseling he practiced with her--ha ha.

SAM

I am confused.

What are you sorry about?  Why do you think women would reject you?  What is your question?

SAM

Crying spells are just part of the process.  Don‘t feel bad for feeling bad.  As time passes, you will feel better and start to think less and less of him and one day you will actually feel relieved that he is not your problem any more.  You will look at him and shake your head as to why you cried over his dumb ass to begin with since he is so unworthy.

When I kicked my former spouse out, he told everyone that we just "grew apart".  Right.  Well, I guess we did since he had started dating another woman. While we were still married.   I told everyone her name and the real reason why.  So that way they were not real surprised when he married her--wouldn‘t want them to be caught off guard or anything.  I am considerate and nice to a fault I guess--ha ha.

Karma will take care of him.  My hope for you is that when it does finally catch up with him, you will be too happy with your new improved life to even care.  Won‘t that be great?

SAM

You raised some interesting points.

I do not think men always lose with the divorce.  I certainly lost in my divorce in my opinion.  Financially I did not come out ahead and I feel I am stuck for awhile until my children are grown.  My former spouse moved away, remarried and began his new exciting life and I am the one along with my family who is raising our children.  I feel I cannot take another job or move or even consider marriage (I‘m not) because it would negatively impact my children right now.  I feel stuck.  I am in a holding pattern.  And I have to say I resent the user women I see who seem to never hold a job or be responsible or pay their own bills, cheated on him and have their former spouse over and over and over bail them out.  Must be a case of having the golden p*ssy I guess. My former spouse would not give me a thin dime if I begged and I was the "good" one in the marriage--the responsible one.  It seems like the good one in the marriage always gets taken.  There are givers and takers.  I was the giver I guess.  And I got taken!

I do not think I will marry again.  I am a bit jaded and older now and less willing to put up with someone else‘s sh*t.  I am thinking at the first sign of unhappiness I would want out.  Cut my losses and run.  I can be unhappy being by myself and I have already experienced being unhappy being married.  Because I would not have children with another man, why would I want to stay?  That is why I stayed as long as I did in my marriage because of the children.

But I am conflicted.  I would love to find a man who was crazy about me.  A true partner.  Someone I could trust.  Someone who I could grow older (I am never getting old--ha ha) with and do things with.  A special friend.  Someone who gets me and my dumb jokes.  And too it would be nice to have someone to help me financially--to plan for the future and all that.  That scares me sometimes.

I guess we are lucky to come out of divorce alive and with what bit of sanity we have left.  One day and fairly soon too I don‘t think people will even bother to get married anyway.  Then what will happen?
SAM

The others are right.  You need to be done with him.  You make the decision for him because he is happy having you at home and the little honey on the side.  He probably likes having 2 women fight over him.  End it.  You deserve some peace of mind.  Too much drama.  You will feel so much better once he is gone.

Be prepared though--because chances are good once you kick him out, he may want to come back.  The grass is not always greener on the cheating side once they have to start paying bills and are not sneaking around to see each other.  Life becomes less exciting and well..more like marriage again.   And the OW sounds like a real winner too so I doubt she will want to put up with his sh*t 24/7.  They rarely do.

Distance yourself and your children from this craziness.  Get out.  Don‘t talk to her every again.  She is his problem and he is her problem now.  Should be fun to watch.

SAM

I don‘t hate men.  Within the last year I have had allot of fun with men.  Too much fun really--ha ha.  I just don‘t trust my heart or judgment right now. 

I consider myself an exceptional woman.  Attractive, fun, smart, caring, independent, hard working, good with money, honest, and humble (ha ha) so I just do not get it why some lucky man has not tried harder to snap me up.

We will all be ok.  We are just lucky to get out of this whole thing alive and with a sense of humor.  Sometimes I still fight against the "injustice" of it all.  Seems like the good one just gets the crap and the bad one keeps on giving the crap.  And there are allot of crappy women too so men do not have the market on that.

Oh, Lorrie--guess what?  DA quit his job.  He said between having to pay child support and pay for gas to drive to work, he was not bringing home enough money.  Par for the course I guess.  Wonder how much money he bring home once he is put in jail for not paying child support?

SAM

In my opinion, one of the most wonderful things about being divorced is doing what you want.  If you want to keep him at arm‘s length, do so.  But be warned, you will become even more irresistable to him if he is thinking you are a challenge. 

The man I see has very limited contact with my children and this has worked out fine.

The older I get, the more value I see in being able to compartmentalize my life too.  There is nothing wrong with having fun and living life for right now.  Who knows what the future will bring?

I say have fun.  Do what you want and tell him what you want from him.  It sounds like he is crazy about you and will do what he can to make you happy.  You certainly deserve it.

SAM

ps.  Yes, someone can be jealous but not possessive.  I am.  Jealousy is a feeling in my opinion and possessiveness is an action.  You can feel a certain way but not act on it.  I am this way very often.  I might feel jealous but will be damned if I will let him know it.  Insisting on  my former spouse wearing a wedding ring was my way of being possessive.  Him losing it several times should have been a clue that being possessive with him did not work.  I will never understand men.

I am better off. 

Him cheating and her confirming it was the straw that broke the camel‘s back.  Looking back now I realize how unhappy I was in my marriage and him cheating was probably the only thing that could justify in my mind me leaving him.  She did me a big favor, the little honey.

I found myself again.  It took awhile and I cried allot at first but I have learned to like myself and I am happy again.  My confidence has increased and I am not as sweet as I used to be.  I have yet met a woman who has gone through a divorce who did not look prettier or be happier once it is all said and done.

I would not want to ever live a lie again or be the woman I used to be when I was married to him.  It was way too much work.

SAM

Oldwiz,

You are right.  DA is not a term of endearment.  Dumb @ss is however very descriptive and fitting.  Wonder what nice name he calls me?  ha ha

Sometimes it does seem all the "good ones" are taken.  I hope their wives and their husbands appreciate them being the good one.  Everyone needs to feel special and valued.

SAM

They say you find love when you least expect it or when you are not looking for it.

I doubt you will be alone long.  Men rarely are.

And there are some nice women out there.  Maybe they just are still stuck with the jerks they picked and are yet not ready to look for a nice man.

What do you consider older?

SAM

Sunny, I am sorry.

I work with the public too and they can be a major pain in the ass.  I work for a utility and have been here for about 4 years.  When I first started working here, I would actually cry over the sad stories people would tell why they could not pay their bill.  Then in a few months, they would tell me the same sad story so I knew someone was telling "whoppers".  I don‘t cry anymore.  Once a lady got so mad at me over her bill that she said she hoped everyone in my immediate family got terminal cancer and died.  WTF?  I never forgot that one because it was so specific and odd.  A couple of months later she came in and I took her payment and I very nicely said to her--"Oh I remember you, you are the lady who said you hoped everyone in my immediate family got terminal cancer and died but I wanted you to know so far, so good, no cancer".  She could not look me in the eye and said she was sorry about saying that.  I also hate it when people threaten me with God or Jesus.  They tell me God or Jesus will deal with me.  Once I told someone "well when he comes to deal with me, I am going to send him to you first so he can help you deal with your delinquent account and then he can come back and deal with me."

People are crazy!  Rather than yell at their boss or their spouse who they are really mad at, they take it out on someone who is trying to help them.  Don‘t people remember what our grandmothers told us--you can draw more flies with honey than vinegar?

SAM

They can just kiss my nice tan ass.

Once again, she wants something she has no right to.  Are they married?  If not, then there is no real reason for Lucy to even be around her. 

See, cheaters don‘t trust other cheaters.  She wants to be up his ass 24/7 because she does not trust him.  If he says he is doing something with Lucy, she wants to be doing something with Lucy.  To check on him.  She doesn‘t trust him to be alone for a minute because she knows his track record.  I am surprised she does not ride in the truck with him when he goes to work.

These liar cheaters need to leave our kids out of things.

SAM

I told my cheating former spouse over the telephone to not come home and that the locks to the house had been changed.  Then the children and I went out of town.  I left the key with a friend so DA could get his stuff out of the house.  He was served with divorce papers at his work the next week.  Oh, before I told him not to come home, I took out half the money in the checking account.

The biggest mistake I made was asking the question "Why?"

Don‘t ever ask them this because they will just hurt your feelings.  Everything will be your fault and you will be blamed for everything.  Liar cheaters can never take responsibility for their own bad actions.

SAM

That and collecting the life insurance money--ha ha.

SAM

Well, I cannot imagine being rich because I have never been and have always had to work fulltime when single, married and now single again.  Everyone should pull their weight--male or female.

But I do agree that financial problems will erode a marriage quicker than just about anything.  Two people need to be in agreement from the beginning about their financial goals.  My problem was that I married a spender who did not like to work and I felt very resentful for being the one who always had to work and keep the bills paid.

Users are users and I am always amazed at what some women get away with financially but not having to work or help pay the bills even years after they are divorced.  On the flip side, there are allot of male users too who refuse to be a man and honor their responsibilities.  I am kinda dealing with this type of situation myself right now since my ex just up and quit his job because he got tired of driving so far to his job.  DA did not find a new job first but quit the good one he had.  Some people are very irresponsible.  But my kids like to eat so off to work I keep going and going and going!

Why oh why was I not born rich instead of so damn good looking?  ha ha

SAM

Yep, Sunny--you are right.  We can make it on our own and that is good to know.  Not that we have any choice.  It is what it is and we do what we have to do to take care of these children of ours.  And yes if we ever do choose to remarry, what a catch WE will be for some lucky man.  Not only are we independent, financially savvy and hard working but stunningly gorgeous too--ha ha.

Next time however I will make sure he will be on the same page financially so there is no drama and conflict.  In the bible it talks about not being "unequally yoked".  While this is often discussed about couples needing to have the same faith, I think allot of people are unequally yoked when it comes to the area of finances.  This builds allot of resentment in my opinion.  Next time I want to marry a man who is filthy rich, never been married or has any children and who is an orphan.  What do you think?

SAM

I would make sure his cell phone got "accidently" left in his pants pocket and got "accidently" washed by "accident". 

I hate cell phones and computers sometimes.  These things make it so convenient to cheat.  A cell phone is what did my marriage in or rather it was proof through cell phone records and seeing actual texts to her that did it in.  I just needed tangible proof.

Go with your gut.  Pregnant or not, you know what your gut is telling you.  You have to decide what to believe--what he is telling you or what you saw for yourself.  I do not envy you at all.  And these liar cheaters will have you questioning your own sanity by throwing the blame back onto you.  This is very common.  It is never their fault--always yours.  Whatever.  Talk to a friend.  Ask her what she would do.

Good luck to you.

SAM

Ok, this is a little change of subject but I watched a show last night about swingers and people with open marriages and I was horrified.  Not because of what they were doing sexually necessarily (not for me but whatever) but because everyone on the show was so darn unattractive.  For the life of me I could not imagine why these ugly people would want to do it with other horribly unattractive people.  Is that mean of me or what?

SAM

I just know if I were going to be on tv I would do something with my hair, wear something flattering and at least stand up straight.  Not everyone can be drop dead gorgeous but at least try to make yourself look presentable.  I find it hard to believe that there were not better looking swingers.  Maybe the good looking ones did not want to be on camera and the unattractive ones did not care.

I guess I have issues with how most people dress anyway.  You will never see me go out in public sleeveless since I am over 35.  And my arms are not bad either.  I went to the casino this weekend with a friend and I was horrified.  Horrified at what people wear in public.  There were people there in pajama bottoms.  Last week I had to go to court (to support a friend--I am not in trouble--ha ha) and the bailiff said to everyone in the court that if they were wearing t-shirts or shorts then they should leave the court.  About 30 people got up and left.  I wish he had added flip flops and tank tops to the list.  Who wears shorts, tank tops or flip flops to court?  And I wish when we went through the metal detectors they could have issued belts for the men who needed them.  Do not get me started!

Maybe the swingers and the people with open marriages are not as superficial as me and do not care about looks.  I am not attracted to pretty boys but come on--they were some freaky deaky looking people on that show.

SAM

My opinion?  Get out.

I think you and your husband are so different in your thinking that it will drive you crazy.  You cannot change another person no matter how hard you try or what you do or how much you talk about things.  What will happen if you stay together is that you will "settle" for what you can get or he will do a better job hiding his activity from you and you will not be happy and the resentment will build.

Plus there is the issue of money being spent on this kind of thing.  If he is really addicted then more and more money and time will be spent on this and less money and time spent on you and your child.

It is a real mess.  I would begin quietly getting ready to leave and talk to an attorney.  I am assuming you want to go out of the country with your child and that probably will complicate things for you.

Sometimes I just hate technology.  The internet and cell phones make it so easy to cheat.  I found out about my husband‘s wandering ways through the cell phone bill.

Good luck.

SAM

Funny stuff--I have to be careful laughing out loud since I am at work--ha ha.

My stage name would be Montana Silver Tower.

I think you need to give yourself permission to feel bad about this.  You are in a bad position.  You care for her but you do not trust her.  I was in a very similar position and it drug on for years until I had absolute complete proof of what I knew he had been doing all along.  I wish I had gone with my gut feeling the first couple of times but as they say hindsight is 20/20.  Cheaters will lie and then try to convince you that you are crazy or that you are the bad one because you do not "trust" them.

If you want to work things out, great.  Counseling is a good idea but she might still admit nothing wrong.  Remember cheaters always lie.  Sometimes the best way to get someone‘s attention is to stop giving them your attention.  Suddenly get very busy, develop new friends and hobbies away from her, have your own little email chat-mates and find less time to be with her.  I might be way off base but I would back off and let her wonder what you are up to.

SAM

That is a sad story, Don.  I hope you will feel the same about her again soon.  If I were her, just knowing how your feelings have changed would break my heart.  I sure wish you were happier.

I remember when I had first seperated from my husband and knew I was divorce bound telling someone that I just couldn‘t imagine another man other than my husband ever seeing me naked.  My friend laughed and said oh it is fun to have a man other than your husband see you naked.  At the time, I was shocked by that.  Now I know she knew what she was talking about--ha ha! 

And I can understand why men love women.  They are so soft and smooth and pretty and they smell good.  They do nice things for the men they love and they are loyal to a fault.  I am like Sunny in that next time I think I will be a lebian too.  Well, maybe.  I don‘t know but women are wonderful creatures and I can see why men would like them. Allot.

SAM

I am sorry.  I am sure your daughter is upset as well as you and your co-workers.

I am thinking of you all.

SAM 

I had to appear for jury duty today in federal court.  I have never been called for jury duty ever so this was a first.  I did not get picked and in some ways I am relieved and in other ways I am confused.

I swear they picked the most inappropriately dressed people there and the ones who gave the most dumb ass answers.  Would you show up for jury duty wearing tennis shoes, jeans and a ratty shirt?  Not me.  I wore a beautiful fuchsia suit.  For nothing--ha ha.

I told my friend that they did not pick me because the judge said I was too pretty and would be a distraction--ha ha.  That is my story and I am sticking with it.

Gosh darn it, I was hoping I would get sequestered for a few weeks in a nice hotel with excellent room service.  Away from work and a break from the kids and maybe a conjugal visit too every now and then.   That sounds nice.

But no, they had to pick the dumb asses!

SAM

First of all, I am glad you found this site because you are dealing with allot right now and you will find support here.

I don‘t know what to tell you other than go with your gut feeling.  You know something is up even if he will not admit it.  Take emotion out of it and begin thinking about what you would need to do if he left or if you asked for a divorce.  Try to squirrel away a little money.  Do you work and have your own insurance and income?  If you do, then you will not be so dependent on him financially.  Do you have somewhere to go if you needed to leave suddenly?

There is a good book I read years ago when I wanted to save my marriage.  It is by Dr. Dobson and it is called "Love Must be Tough".  I may not get the entire message right but basically it tells you the way to get him to pay attention to you is to back away from him and not make him the sole focal point of your life.  You tell him what you want and need from the marriage, let him decide what he will do and then go from there.  No begging or pleading or accepting any of his bad behavior.  He either choses to be a husband and father to you and your child or he doesn‘t.  If he choses to continue to misbehave then he has to move out and be on his own and accept the consequences of HIS decision.

You really don‘t have proof of any affair or other woman right now.  If you go digging for proof, do so quietly and do not confront him right away.  If he knows you are onto him, then he will be even more sneaky and therefore harder to catch.

I do not envy you at all and right now the most important thing is for you to take care of yourself and that baby.  Make sure you have someone to talk to about all this and surround yourself with friends and family who love and support you.

I wish you luck.  I am sure the others here will give you excellent advice.

SAM

That is the part that is so hard to wrap your little brain around--that they say they love you and only you and there is no one else but you find evidence otherwise.  So you are forced to believe what they tell you and what you really want to be true or either believe what you see with your own eyes and your gut feeling.  Some cheaters are able to compartmentalize their lives and can put you in a little box and the person they are seeing in a little box and keep their lives seperate.  They want you at home taking care of them and the home and the children and her on the side for some excitement.  They want it both ways.  Cake-eaters and that was what I dealt with.  A man who wanted it both ways.

Someone mentioned in a post about their spouse talking about her to the OW.  I found out my husband talked about me to his girlfriend from her and that deeply offended me more than just about anything else.  Talk about a betrayal.

It is very difficult until you finally believe in your heart of hearts that he is lying and has been lying and that your gut was right all along.  You don‘t want it to work out that way but it is what it is.  Once you get beyond the "what ifs" then you can get some closure and get some peace.  It will get better, I promise.

There is really nothing you can do to get even--especially if you have children and have to keep things semi-civil for their benefit.  At first I think most of us had these wonderful get even fantasies and this is fun.  In my mind I killed my former spouse at least a thousand different ways and got away with it and buried him in every piney wood between where I live and middle GA.

I am not pleased to admit that I did just about everything I could to drag on the divorce.  I knew he wanted to be with her and that they would marry as soon as they could and that he had to pay for his divorce.  A family member did my divorce so I had no real expenses.  This turned out to bite me in the butt because by the time it was over and done with I was so ready to be done with him.

The best revenge or best way to get even is to look absolutely fabulous, be happy, and do well.  At first you have to fake it big time and smile when you feel like cryiong 24/7 but after awhile you really are looking fabulous, being happy and doing well.  The mean part of me hopes that my former spouse sees me now and is surprised at how great I look and how happy I am without him.  Other people have noticed this so I am sure he has too.  And the best revenge too for the OW is to let her have your used up worthless piece of crap cheater husband.  Believe me, mine was not worth fighting over.  I told her she could have him and dummy her took him.  Now she has him on a short tight leash and well she should and he is not working now either so I am sure all is not roses and candlelight at their lovenest either.  Gotta laugh about that.

They are their own worst enemy.  They do not change.  We need to work on improving ourselves and being happy and having some peace in our lives and let them fall back into their old habits.

SAM

Yes--my mother cried my whole junior year.

Yesterday when I was sitting at the doctor‘s office with my son, I got all teary eyed looking at him and seeing how he is changing all of a sudden into a man.   He is losing that baby face now at age 14.

SAM

I think the fact that a man would quote his mother as saying those things is the problem.  He can believe what he wants and say what he wants but I am sorry it is so silly to quote your mother.  If you are older than 10 that is.  I don‘t quote my mother although I often agree with her thinking.  Most grown people don‘t unless they are Forest Gump or the Water Boy.

SAM

One of my most favorite movies is Fight Club.  There at the end Tyler Durden blows up the buildings that house the computers and information of everyone‘s debt in the attempt to erase the debt and make everyone "equal" again. 

Most people are slaves to debt.  You know the old bumper sticker--I owe, I owe, off to work I go.  I am not comfortable with debt myself and this was a big issue in my marriage.  I think there is always a spender and a saver.

The one thing I really hate about being a single parent is that I have no real backup.  Or help.  I have to work.  There have been days I have left sick children at home (they are teenagers) and took my ass to work even though I would have liked to be there with them.  It hurt my heart as a mama to leave them there alone sick.  My former spouse just up and quit his job so I have not gotten child support for 3 months.  I do not have the luxury of just quitting my job because I do not want to work any more.  My kids like to eat and I guess their father thinks because he does not see them every day they don‘t eat every day.  But they do. 

The best thing we can do is try to find a job that we enjoy even a little bit.  I had a job years ago that was horrible and so stressful that I would throw up every day in the car going to work.  But I had no choice and drove my ass to work throwing up the whole way because I was the dependable one in the marriage.  Kids gotta eat and they need insurance and all that.

Sometimes being a grown up sucks.

SAM

I was more "single" when I was married than I am now.  I was married but did everything by myself--weddings, funerals, school events.  I am sure everyone thought I was divorced way before I actually was.  I was also much more lonely in my marriage than I have been since getting divorced.

You just learn to do things on your own.  You learn to hold up your head and walk in a room by yourself.  Imagine yourself as a supermodel.  You have to project confidence and become more social.  At least I did.  Start the conversation.  Host the party.  Plan an activity.  I had to become more outgoing and assertive.  This was a good thing for me.

The hardest thing for me was not having my children around 24/7.  At first he would do things with them and take them places but now that they are bigger and meaner (teenagers--ha ha) he rarely sees them so it is rare that I am by myself.  Ever.

What do you mean by single?  Once a man asked me if I was single and I said well I am divorced and he said do you have a boyfriend and I said well yes I do and then the man said I knew you were not single and therefore available.  ??? I always assumed single meant not married.  I have a boyfriend but I consider myself single.  Am I correct?

SAM