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Hi everyone. I have been reading these boards almost daily since last Fall, but this is the first time I have posted. This site is an amazing resource. I have learned an incredible amount from coming here. I just hope I can apply it in my next relationship, should I ever have the courage to enter into one again.

I have seen some of you struggling with the issue of whether or not to take someone back after an episode of cheating. I know this is just one story, but I wanted to share my experience.

I am 45 years old and have never been married. I am well-educated, attractive and am told I look ten years younger than I am. I have a good job (I’m a lawyer) and am not looking for anyone to take care of me. While I have had several long-term relationships and would like to share my life with someone, I seem to keep picking the wrong kinds of men-commitment-phobes and/or cheaters. I must be good to them, because many resurface years later after I am past it and tell me they still miss me.

I began a long distance relationship about a year and a half ago with someone who lived on the East Coast. He said he was single and I believed him. He was smart, well-educated and we had great chemistry. We would spend long weekends together every 3-4 weeks and talked on the phone daily. I spent the weekend at his home and there was no sign of a woman anywhere. He acted like he was crazy about me and said he had never had such great chemistry with anyone before. About 5 months into it, I noticed a change in his behavior. For one thing, he began calling me during the day instead of at night. I called him on it and he denied that anything was wrong or different. He became almost desperate to keep me, making me all kinds of promises about a future together. We began planning for me to move there within a year.

Then I got the call. I picked up a number I did not recognize and a woman said, "Hi. I’m x’s girlfriend. Please stop calling him." I was shocked of course, and explained that I had no idea she existed. It was obvious she thought I had a fling with him and was stunned to find out it had been going on for seven months. Apparently he had been dating her long-distance (she lived on the West Coast) for a year before he met me. This is the kicker—she had moved in with him a few months before! She and I ended up having a long talk. She was considerably younger than I am and had come here from another country and gotten her college and graduate degree. She did not have a green card, and was sure they would get married. Since she moved in, he had been extremely cruel to her. She recognized that something must be going on so she looked through his phone and credit card statements and found out about me. She was actually very sweet and said she was sorry he had done this to me. I told her I was sorry he had done this to her too and that she would not have to worry about me any more. She said she was going to stay with him because she had no where else to go.

He finally called me to say he was sorry, but not until almost 2 weeks later. He said he loved me and did not want to be with her, but felt too guilty to let her go, as she was totally financially dependent on him. He said she had no where else to go once school ended and had done the application to get professionally licensed for work in the state in which he lived before we even began our relationship. He said she was very invested in getting her green card and he felt too guilty not to marry her. I told him not to call me again and good luck in the relationship… he would need it.

It was hard for me to move on, but I did. I was very sad and felt betrayed. I also had some strange belief that this man had really loved me but was too weak to carry through.

Less than 6 months later he e-mailed me, saying he missed me and thought about me all the time. Against my better judgment, I responded, saying you have chosen your life, leave me alone. He then said that (surprise surprise) the relationship had been a disaster and that she had moved out and they were over. Eventually he wormed his way back into my life and we began spending time together again. I visited him and she was obviously gone. Although I always felt sick that he would do something again, I tried to trust him and to believe that what he said was true: that he truly loved me and would never do such a thing to me again.

For awhile, everything seemed fine. Then one day less than six months into the renewed relationship, I sensed a shift. He began going out often and staying out late. He was vague about what he was doing. He stopped taking about future plans and one of us moving to be together. He came out for a long visit, and from the moment he got here, picked fights with me. He didn’t look me in the eye and was quiet for long periods. He was practically silent during sex, which was really unusual. He was cocky. He seemed to be intentionally distancing himself from me. When I confronted him about it after he left, he broke up with me, saying we had tried it again and it hadn’t worked. His cruelty and brusqueness stunned me. It was as if he was a different person.

He denied that he is seeing someone else, of course, but I know that he is. He loves sex and would never let go of one branch when he hadn’t already grabbed hold of another. He asked if he could call me "from time to time" and of course I said no. Now I am getting over him again, and feeling sadness I had already conquered once. Thanks to the knowledge I have gained from these boards, I am stronger now and understand the pathology behind someone with a personality disorder like his. I know he is not skipping through a field of daisies with this new woman. So to all of you who think if you give a cheater a second chance it will be different next time, think very hard on that. Men who need affirmation from more than one women to feel good about themselves continue that behavior forever.

Thank you again for all the good advice and support, even though you didn’t know I was here reading. LMWS and those who keep these boards alive, you help more people than you realize. God bless.

It does not surprise me that such relationships are doomed. I have known so many men leave cool wives or girlfriends for another woman and they are completely enamored…for a few months. Soon they are back to their old ways and making the new woman miserable. I think many cheaters are so unhappy with themselves that they constantly look outside their circumstances for answers…and wind up far less happy than they were before.

Getting in shape for yourself- that is such a good attitude!  My favorite way to get in shape is to take classes: Tae Bo and Spinning.  It is uplifting to see people and to feel like you are part of something.  Plus both of those go by quickly and really provide all-over results.

I have forgiven more than one boyfriend who has cheated on me.  Unfortunately, it was only a matter of time before they did it again.  While we as the betrayed see it as being forgiving, the cheater often reads it as a weakness, and the respect for you is never again present.  Of course, I never could truly respect them again either, so maybe that played some part in the failure of the relationship.  I honestly do not believe a relationship can ever fully recover from an episode of cheating, especially from a long-term affair.  Think of what it takes to look at someone day after day and lie to them repeatedly, to have sex with someone else and then come back and say I love you. Such a lack of character is fatal.  I would love to tell you people can change, but the relationship that brought me here and the remainder of my experiences in this arena tell me otherwise.  Best of luck to you.

Thank you all for your posts. The support and advice you give here is invaluable.

I know that I am not without fault in the choices I have made. In this case, when he came back to me after he had betrayed me, I should not have given him a second chance. However, in my defense, he was very convincing that he had found himself in a difficult position of loving one woman and feeling obligated to another. He had stopped seeing her and I really believed that he would not blow the chance for the fresh start I was willing to give us. I was wrong.

Poolgirl, I have asked myself if this is my fault because I "choose" bad men. As one of the many self-help books I’ve read pointed out to me, don’t be so tough on yourself if you "choose" narcissistic players…there are a lot out there and they are good at hiding their true nature in the beginning. I do know that there are nice guys out there too, and despite what you think, I would like to meet one. I have found that many nice guys tend to be shy and honestly get freaked out by a woman who is successful, outgoing, and independent. I know I sound like I am making excuses for myself, but that is really the truth. The nice ones don’t ask me out and I have never been good at being the pursuer. I will say this...I no longer let the losers linger once I realize who they are.  I used to dredge the last life blood out of a relationship.  One real area where I have seen growth in myself is that I no longer do this.   I have learned how to say goodbye.

Hi Cowboycrazy!  I haven‘t posted until recently, but have been stalking these boards since last Fall. I have followed your posts for many months now and have always admired your spirit and sense of self.  I have also sensed the continued pull you are feeling with this man.  I, too, left someone who was toxic for me only to feel the longing you are decribing for many months more.  I  ended up caving to his attempts to get me back, and it lasted a very short time.  Let me assure you, the fantasy is better than the reality.  Men like your cowboy are collectors.  They enjoy the hunt, and what better victory than regaining someone you‘ve already mistreated?  Especially if that someone is someone like you: attractive, bright and spunky.  Men like the cowboy love to bring such a woman under their control and break their spirit.  I don‘t mean to sound harsh.  I just don‘t think he will change, and you deserve so much more.

You have reminded me of myself more than once.  You are picky, and when you meet someone you like, you have a hard time letting go of the dream.  When the cheater was gone, I missed him terribly.  But after I took him back, I felt sick all the time wondering what he was doing when we were apart and wondering what the hell I was doing putting so much trust in someone who had betrayed me so badly.  In the end, nothing had changed. I still feel sadness over the loss, but I can sleep at night, and I don‘t worry about what he is doing anymore.  Let him make someone else a miserable wreck!

I have wasted a lot of time wishing certain men would come back to me only to realize later that I was very thankful they hadn‘t.  Look ahead, missy...your whole life is waiting!  Take care.

My most happily married friend had a pretty rough time with men before she met her husband.  Like us, she dated a number of narcissists/players who put her on a pedestal initially but then crash it down.  Her husband, however, is better looking than any of them, could be a total player if he wanted to but has no interest in it, and feels lucky to have her, as he should. She said that with him, it just "flowed."  They did not break up and get back together countless times, she did not feel the need to obsess over the relationship and they both wanted to move forward, not just her.  I know this may sound like a fairytale, but I am aiming for it!  I think of a relationship I had a long time ago when I was in my twenties.  I hadn‘t gone to law school yet and had no real interest in getting married.  Still, the relationship did flow, and I never doubted that he really loved me.  I know it is possible, and I know it is possible for all of us.  You just have to be patient, and clear your heart.

My brother always tells me that if I really want to, I can talk to any ex I want to in the future.  They aren‘t going anywhere. In the year or two following the breakup, however, you should abide by the no contact rule.  It really does break the obsession.  Once a certain amount of time has passed, I have spoken to some old boyfriends again.  It‘s funny, but I haven‘t felt the pull anymore, and it must be obvious to them by my reaction that I don‘t.  It never ceases to amaze me, but they seem really insulted by this!  Know that if you continue to dust Cowboy, you will always be the regret, the one that got away.  That is the best spot to be in with a man like that.

Rhiannon, thank you for all your kind words and support.  You are a beautiful writer and very insightful.  You had helped me long before I ever posted.

You are certainly right that you can‘t judge a man by his accomplishments.  Unfortunately, some of the biggest sociopaths (and I don‘t think I‘m being too harsh by labeling them as such) I have encountered have been high functioning, ambitious individuals with graduate degrees and high-paying jobs.  My latest ex was no exception.  They may lack a soul and a conscience but they sure are intelligent!

If you do monogomy right, sex is the one thing you don‘t share with anyone else.  It separates every other loving relationship you have.  It is very hurtful that your husband has pulled away from you this way.  I think the reason none of us can really give you a satisfactory answer here is that you really don‘t have options other than to  look for sex elsewhere, which I really would not suggest, or to leave him.  If this has gone on for any amount of time (I know you said nine years but you also said your portrait was stealth), you are way past getting a reaction with lingerie and porn.  You can only control your own actions, not his.   To neglect you has been his choice.

You deserve to be loved, and to be with someone who understands that sex is a vital part of marriage.  Cheating is not the only way to betray someone. 

If you feel you need to give him one more chance, tell him you are leaving him unless he will go to counseling with you. Tell him why.  If he will not go, you have your answer.

I understand that those who are telling you to cheat are well-intentioned, but it will only make you feel empty, and in the long run, will not solve your problem. 

Hey dbuck!  That is so funny...I detected the bitter tone as well, hence my curiousity for the update.  In most cases I‘d feel a little guilty trolling around for the soap opera scoop, but he is just here for entertainment value, isn‘t he?

Come on Patrick, fill us in, you know you want to.  No one will say I told you so. (Okay, that part‘s bullshit, but tell us anyway.)

I know it sounds cliched, but trust your intuition! If you think he is cheating, if things feel different, or wrong, trust your instincts.  My friends accused me of being paranoid when I worried aloud to them that my ex was cheating.  I ultimately did get confirmation that my perceptions were correct...from his other girlfriend. 

Everything you describe indicates that he is cheating.  He is not your soulmate, if there even is such a thing.  I don‘t believe there is one person for ewveryone, and if somehow it gets messed up, that‘s it.  God, or Fate, or wherever your beliefs lie, is not so cruel.  I thinkbeleiving someone is your soulmate only serves to make you stay somewhere you should no longer be.

If it feels wrong, it is wrong.  Do you really need spyware to confirm that?

Please don‘t think this way...it is so negative!  I am 45 and have dated many men far younger than I am (two of my most serious boyfriends were 10 years younger).  Think of yourself at 24.  Were you as confident as you are now?  I know that I was not. I like myself now, and it shows.  I have had men in their early to mid 20‘s ask me out and when I tell them (very nicely, after all, its really flattering!), that they are too young for me, they say they prefer to date a woman in her forties to a woman in her twenties since they have more confidence and life expereince. 

Please don‘t be so hard on yourself-this situation would be hard for anyone.  How dare your husband be debating between you and another woman!  Do yourself a favor and remove yourself from the equation.  Let them have each other!  I promise you that in time (if you give yourself that), you will not want him back.

Your husband is a real jerk.  Do not allow his immaturity and cruelty  make you feel bad about yourself.  This is about him, not about you.  Love and prayers to you.

Katie, have you forgotten where you are?  The reason we all say you should boot him out is that we have all been where you are.  Many of us on the boards have found it necessary to extricate ourselves from someone we loved very much.  We are here because we struggle with it, just like you do.  We let go of them, though, because we love ourselves more and that person was poisoning our lives.  This is not a group of people without experience, and if you see everyone giving you the same advice, it is only because it is clear to everyone but you how your story will end.   

I have read all your posts and worry that you are in serious denial.  How much more proof do you need?  Why do you cling to someone who has such disrespect for you?  You sound so sad, and so anxious.  I promise that if you make the concious decision to get out of this situation, you will start to feel better.  You will sleep again.  You will be you again.

Hell2pay, you sound so strong! Your post was just what I needed today.  I was focusing on all the wrong things, and you helped me remember that it is time to focus on me. Thanks for the inspiration.

How has dealing with him been since last fall when you posted this originally? 

What did you find out?  Was he cheating? 

I wish I could say you will feel better overnight.  I wish I would feel better overnight. While that won‘t happen, I will tell you that you will get over this eventually, and you will wonder why you ever loved this guy.  There I men that I obsessed over that I really never think about anymore, and when I do, it is to think Ick! You need to stay busy and you need to stay away from him.  No talking.  No e-mailing. No contact at all.  Not only will it help you heal, but it will serve the added purpose of forcing him to see what he has lost.  I‘m not suggesting that if he comes to you and says he realizes what he has lost that you should take him back, because unfortunately, they only seem to change short term, but at least you will feel some vindication knowing that he is missing you.  And he will.  They always do.  Can‘t commit to staying, can‘t commit to going.  It‘s the trademark of many, many disfunctional men.

Three days is such a short time...this is very fresh.  You will feel better.  Visit the boards and know that you are not alone in this. Stay busy!  Hang out with friends. You can get through this! Everyone on this site has.

This may sound silly, but I have fantasies of getting in really great shape, looking hot and being able to burn him with it.  (Even though we‘re not speaking, I know he‘ll call again.  The really messed up ones always do.)   I have a very screwed up guy friend who told me that it killed him when he called his ex girlfriend and she said to him, "My butt is so tight you could crack an egg on it." I swear, it haunted him for years.

One of my favorite quotes is, "Revenge is a dish best served cold."  I have gotten revenge in the past.  Exes have called fishing around and asking to have dinner and I‘ve been able to say "I‘m really busy, I‘ll get back to you," then haven‘t. Feels pretty damn good.  Men hate to see you are over them, ESPECIALLY if you were once very into them.

I like this thread!  I‘ll be heading off to the gym later.......

Huh, funny but pretty much every David I‘ve ever known has been a major player/jerk. Just an observation.  (My apologies to all the nice, non-jerky Davids out there).

This man is poison.  He sounds like the guy who sleeps with lots of women to break whatever current bond he has and to avoid being intimate with anyone.  (Again, ladies, read "Men Who Can‘t Love"-GREAT book) Walk away from him and know that he will NEVER be a good partner for anyone.  Stop trying to figure him out.  This has nothing to do with you.  He will do this to the next woman and the next and the next.  He will use you for as long as you let him.  I hope you do not think I am being harsh. I just don‘t want you to wake up 5 years from now still driving to his place to sleep with him, because, I assure you, it could happen.  Don‘t let it!  Cut off communication completely and let the loser wonder what happened to you.

Keep posting when you feel low.  We are here for you!

I feel for you.  I have been where you are and have obsessed over what my ex (damn, actually more than one ex!) was doing.  I would urge you not to follow him and to even try to stop yourself from wondering what he is doing.  I know it is hard, but why does it matter what he is doing, really?  The more time you spend wondering what he is doing, the less time you spend planning for your future.  You know what he is doing.  Let it go.  Let him go. Your next birthday will be so much better if you do.

Love and prayers to you, Katie. 

Please do not blame this on yourself.  This guy is obviously not ready for a commitment and all that taking it more quickly would have accomplished was to speed up the time in which he acted poorly. If anything, he is reacting to the fact that things were moving forward.  It is very common for commitmentphobes and narcissists to cheat to bring about the end of the relationship and break the bond with their current partner.  This is not about you or the fact that you wanted to take the relationship at a normal pace.  This is about his cowardice and problems with women.  All women honey, not just you.  He will repeat this behavior.  Thank God you didn‘t marry him! I assure you: the only thing that would have been different would be that you‘d be on here seeking advice about divorce.  So stop the what ifs! We are here for you.

Lorrie, loved the juniors department comment... you are really funny!

They are so full of it!  I was actually one of those idiots who always wore the Victoria Secret getups, tried to look perfect all the time (we were long distance so I could do that), indulged all his stupid fantasies.  He still cheated on me! You can‘t win with certain men.  Once I saw that, I‘ve been able to come to terms with the fact that this was not about my inadequacies, but his.

You may have to decide which you want to hang onto more: your husband or your dream of having children.  It is going to get more and more difficult for you to concieve a child.  Even if you look young, your body knows your real age (not that 35 is not young, but it‘s not young to be conceiving your first child.)  I have had several friends who stayed with men hoping against hope that the guy would eventually be ready.  More than one of the men never were ready and the women missed out on the chance for a child.  An opposing desire of this level is not easy on a relationship.  One woman left and is going to adopt on her own.  Another stayed and is very angry.  A couple of the men reluctantly relented and now their wives are going through in vitro, not very successfully, I‘m afraid.  It is very hard to make another adult decide that they want something.  If your husband is more receptive than your post seems to indicate, great.  However, I am guessing that since you went to all the trouble of coming to this board about this, he is not.  Don‘t take too long to figure this out.  Hopeless Dreamer is right, you just don‘t have a lot of time.

If I sound harsh I don‘t mean to.  I am someone who would really like to have had a family, and because of my poor choices in men, and the time I have wasted in the wrong relationships, my time for having a child by natural means has passed me by.  If that is something you really want, you may have to recognize that you and your husband may not have a future together.

I hope this works out for you.

Intense Quiet, hmmm....what made you take up that particular new hobby just then?

You have already been through the hardest part.  Do you really want to go through that again only to have it not work out a second time?  Men who cheat rarely change.  I did take someone back and he screwed up again.  I had already worked through the betrayal and the sadness over the relationship ending and now I am coping with it all over again.  If I had it to do over, I would not give him another chance.  I, like you, was finally recovering.  They sense it, and it is when they reel you back in.  

By the way, don‘t buy the guilt trip.  He is trying to change the focus from his bad behavior onto you.  Don‘t fall for it! 

My thoughts are with you.

My ex used to talk about his cheating "friends."  When I found out about his exploits later, I realized he got off on telling me but not telling me. I guess he enjoyed the cheating  more if he was secretly taunting me with it.

I think he was also testing me to see what I would say.  (I‘m so glad now that I always said, "Your friend is a coward.  If he doesn‘t want to be there he should leave.") 

I don‘t mean to scare you, but when I read your post, I felt a little sick to my stomach.  I am very jaded, though.  I hope it turns out to be nothing more than talk. 

DaGuru, I‘m not going to flame you, but I actuallly think doing as you suggest would imply to her that he still cares too much.  As the old saying goes, the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.  My advice would be that he should tell her cooly that while he may have reacted initially to the kiss, it was purely a physical thing and he has no interest in getting back together.  This will burn her far more.  Sex and the big  reaction of throwing her out of bed will confirm that he is still hung up on her, a confirmation she does not deserve.

Flyguy, honey, you need to step back from all of this and be on your own for awhile.  After a few months you will wonder why you burdened yourself with all this negativity from Wife I and neediness and responsibility from (if you‘re not careful) Wife II.  Give yourself a chance to find the RIGHT person for you...not just some warm body you met at church.  I know I sound harsh, but no, I cannot believe that the first woman you met as your heart was breaking is the right woman for you.  She is convenient, and you are adding to your problems by getting serious with her this quickly.

Patrick, good quote...Scarface, right?  It‘s true that many women admire and seek out powerful men, but it‘s also true that if you are a woman with money and power, men can‘t get far enough away from you!  I don‘t know which is worse, that many women look for those things in a man or that many men are so afraid of them in a woman. I can‘t tell you how many times I‘ve been ditched for someone who needs all her bills paid.  Yeah, she loves you honey, loves your wallet! 

Wire, I stalked these boards for a long time before I ever posted and am very familiar with your thoughtful advice and your warm heart.  There will always be women who appreciate you for those things, especially as you and the women you are dealing with get older.

Flyguy,

You should not be with this new woman out of fear.  I read your update to this and understand that she broke up with you.  I know you don‘t think so right now, but that really is for the best.  You need some time alone to figure out what you really want.  A relationship that started out with you talking to her about all the problems with your ex was not going to work out anyway.   She is not a counselor, she is a womam with whom you are having a relationship.  Hopefully, by the time you start your next relationship this wound will not be so fresh that you have to share every bad thing with a new woman.  While she may have acted like she was okay with that role, I assure you that sharing all your secrets and traumas right off the bat does not make for a good relationship.  Resist the urge to beg her back, because I honestly think in a few months you will not want her there. 

Don‘t be afraid to be on your own for a while.  I‘m sure you are great company!  We are here for you.

Wow, what a complete jerk he is.  Are you supposed to feel lucky that he says he won‘t leave you for the other woman?  What a champ! He obviously thinks he deserves to be "man of the year" for that one. 

You cannot win when someone is behaving this way.  Comments like the ones quoted above show that he only loves himself.  I honestly cannot get over him saying those things to you.  He "can‘t control himself"....how ridiculous! Please don‘t think about staying.  Let them have each other! Let him make her miserable! Please wake up...you do not want this man.  You cannot live like this.  He is treating you terribly.

I am so sorry this has happened to you.  Please keep posting...we are here for you always.

He obviously went and bought you some things at Victoria Secret once he knew you caught him.  I‘m sorry, but it is clear he is cheating, and not just emotionally.  Every cheater, when caught, first tries the "she‘s just a friend."  Do not buy this!

I am Catholic, also (raised in a home where we went to church as a family every Sunday and I continue to go to church every Sunday). Do not hide behind this as an excuse to keep taking his abuse.  Divorce most certainly IS an option, and believe me, if your husband continues his affair(s), he may just exercise that option before you ever get to.  God does not want you to be a doormat.  Respect for yourself and others is a major tenet of the Catholic church.  If your husband does not admit to everything and beg you to go to counseling with him, you must leave.  Do not tell him divorce is not an option for you.  This will only make him feel like he can do anything he wants to you and you will never leave.  You must start facing the fact that this may be an unworkable situation.  I know you do not want to get divorced but you may not have any choice given his behavior.

As to not wanting others to think badly of him, stop protecting him! You have done nothing wrong, but he has, and you deserve the support of those around you.  I see the above quoted words as your excuse to stay in something you know is wrong.   Is it really that you don‘t want others to think badly of him, or is it that you don‘t want them to perceive you as a pushover when you sweep it all under the rug and go on as if nothing has happended?   You need to acknowledge what he is doing, and you need to let your friends family and your priest know what you are going through.

I do not mean to sound harsh, but I hate to see you foreclosing your options by beleiving you have to stay.  You may not be able to stay, and you need to face that sooner rather than later. I will pray for you.

What are you going to do?  How can you live like this? I searched your posts in vain for one word about plans to leave him, but you don‘t seem to have any.  And you are cooking nice meals for him and having sex with him?  Why?  Really, why? 

I know that you asked us to be gentle, but honey, you need some tough love!  I honestly believe any priest except maybe the oldest most conservative one would tell you to leave and leave now.  He has a whole other life without you.  He is looking for sex wherever he can get it.  He is screwing the stripper and now he gets the extra charge of telling you all about her problems while he is doing it.  (Do not invite that woman into your home again.)  He is sick and depraved, and he is going to make you ill. 

Please, please tell me you are going to leave.  I really do sympathize with your circumstances, but you need to wake up.  He is not going to ever be the man you thought he was.  All the gourmet meals in the world and giving him sex everyday won‘t change that.  If you confront him, all he will do is hide it better (as he is now doing with the phone).  Please, please promise you will start planning your escape from this monster (and yes, he is a monster!).

Ugh.  What a complete dog.  You should dump him and not tell him why.  He will always wonder and you will be the one that got away.  You are so young! Enjoy your life, have fun with your friends and family, don‘t get so serious about men yet and don‘t waste another second or tear on this loser!

All of you are so beautiful!  Every time there is a picture thread on this site I think the same thing:  these women are not only beautiful on the inside, but on the outside as well. 

Wow, he‘s already coming back begging and crying?  That must be some kind of record!  Now he has to go back there knowing he is only with her as a default, and knowing that you know that too.  Imagine what it must be like in that house.  How miserable.

I know you don‘t want him anymore, but I hope you sit back, put your feet up, and enjoy this vindication.  I‘m certainly enjoying it for you.  You are going to have a wonderful life!

Unfortunately, this web site is full of women who have encountered men who didn‘t mean what they said...including "I promise to love, honor and cherish you all the days of my life."

This guy sounds like a player.  They say all the right things to get you in the sack and then never call, or worse yet, call only when they are bored and wanting sex.  Chalk it up to a fun night and move on.  Don‘t feed his already inflated ego with more calls.  He‘ll call again (I‘ll bet on it), but if he hasn‘t called yet, you can be assured his intentions will never be serious.  If you just want to sleep with him at that point, go ahead, but don‘t expect anything.  He won‘t deliver.  Sadly, I‘ve known more than my share of Dennys!

Take care.

Remember that you cannot control his choices.  He is lying to you and cheating on you.  I don‘t want to be harsh, but there you were on your anniversary, a romantic time reserved for the two of you, and he was thinking of her!  And the hotel room story, please, what a load of bull!  Please don‘t choose to be in denial over this. Let him know you aren‘t buying his bullshit stories and that you are very aware of the full extent of his betrayal.  What‘s happening is happening.  Denying it won‘t change that. You will feel better when you think of this in the future if you do not let him pull the wool over your eyes .

I know it is hard to face what he is doing, but the sooner you do, the sooner you can stop focusing on him and start focusing on you.  I also realize that it is not easy to think about leaving this situation, but I promise you that you will feel some relief when you do.  I am no longer with the cheater.  I still have occasional moments where the puzzle pieces come together and I realize for the first time another lie that he told me and have a fleeting feeling of nausea.  But then I think, "Who cares, he is her problem now!" and it is very freeing.

Unfortunately, the sadness will be creeping in for awhile.  This is still very fresh, and you were with this woman for a long time. I hope you don‘t consider taking her back.  She has treated you very badly, and while she might change for a brief time, she will  revert to her old behavior.  You are a warm caring person and deserve much, much better!  I hope you give yourself the chance to have that.  Take your time in the new relationship and don‘t jump into marriage.  If you end up not being sure about your girlfriend, you aren‘t doing her any favors by talking marriage and then pulling the pug, or worse, remarrying and  then getting divorced.  Take your time.

I‘m not surprised your ex is distancing herself from the children.  She sounds like the typical narcissist--trying to erase her past so that she does not have to think about her failings.

Try to have fun tonight, for your son‘s sake and your own.  This is a time for making new memories.  While I know you are sad that your life is not following the path you thought it would, you now have a chance at a future that is not riddled with betrayal and anxiety.

Take care.

Hey Patrick--

This isn‘t the first time you‘ve been tempted to stray, although it seems like this woman presents more of a temptation than the others since you actually like her.  I  don‘t think it is smart to marry someone you are already cheating on. You are young and have been with your girlfriend since you were in your early twenties.  I know you love her, but you may not be in love with her any longer.  It seems like you have already moved on but can‘t acknowledge it because of the pain you know it will cause you, and her.   

You should be thinking more about how you feel about your girlfriend apart from your feelings for this other woman. You have been struggling with being faithful to her for a while now.  Do you really think you can get through the next 40 years with her if you can‘t stay faithful to her now when  the relationship is still (assuming you‘ll live to be 80 plus years old) relatively new?  You really shouldn‘t venture into a marriage where you can‘t picture yourself being faithful. You both deserve a relationship that is free of that kind of betrayal and guilt.

I actually think your dilemma is less about this new woman than you think it is.  She may be great, or your subconscious may be fooling you into being more enticed than you are due to your ambivalence regarding your current relationship.  In the end, this other woman may end up to be more of a mechanism for moving past your girlfriend than she is the right woman for you. 

No matter what you do, you are going to miss someone.  Six years is a long time to be with someone, and it probably won‘t be as easy as you think to jump into something new without greiving what you have lost.  Having said that, I don‘t agree with those who have said you should remain with your girlfriend.  I think you are past your relationship in many ways and if you continue it, you will only find yourself in this same predicament before long with a new woman.

Damn, you must like drama.  I am from the east and lived in NYC for a long time and never got into as much trouble as you have there. (And I got into some pretty good trouble!) Good luck with your decision.

Doesn‘t the other woman seem to be wondering why you aren‘t pursuing her harder or why you are keeping her at arm‘s length?  I have been in her position before and when I found out I‘d been decieved, I was so irritated that I would no longer talk to the guy (who only then knew what he wanted and was suddenly ready to break up with the girlfriend).  If you take too long to figure this out, you are likely to lose both women, and worse, to have them hate you pretty much forever.  As you know from being around here for as long as you have, we women are smart cookies and eventually figure it out.  Your women (both of them-hmmm...that doesn‘t sound good) sound intelligent and therfore it is only a matter of time before they realize something is up. 

If you break up with your girlfriend now and say you just can‘t go forward (using the excuse that were too young when you started dating which is probably true), she may never realize that you‘ve been stepping out on her and you may be able to have some type of friendship with her down the road.  By the way, don‘t worry that she is going to be so upset that she will harm herself.  If she hasn‘t shown signs of that before, she won‘t now.  I‘m sure she will be sad, but ultimately she will be fine and hopefully be lucky enough to find someone who walks around starry eyed thinking about her. 

Honey, I know you are hurting, but please do not talk crazy.  No man is worth hurting yourself over!  I have thought many times how insightful you seem when I have read your posts.  Dig deep--you have it in you to pull out of this.

I suffered my worst breakup about 6 years ago.  We had been together over 5 years.  We had almost all the same friends and I loved his family like my own.  He moved on with lightening speed (moved in with her days after breaking up with me) and I was completely devestated.  I remember days when I could not imagine how I was going to get through it, but I did and now I rarely even think about him, and it has been that way for many years.  Had you told me I would ever recover from it to this degree at the time I would never have believed you. And LMWS hadn‘t invented this great site yet so I wasn‘t able to come here for help.  I actually thought it was some deficiency of mine and not his!  I know better now.  And if you give yourself a chance, you will too. 

Go and seek professional help today!!!!! I did and it really helped. I went on anti-depressants for a year and they were a Godsend.  Keep reading and posting.  This site has helped me so much.  I am determined to never get sick over a man again, and thanks to this site, did not do so in my latest breakup which was less than 2 months ago.  In fact, this is the fastest I have ever gotten over anyone and I honestly believe it is because of all the support and knowledge I have found here.

You are sweet, smart and absolutely beautiful.  Do not let this loser bring you down.  And please stop reading his stupid My Space site!  That is so self-defeating.  Go for a walk, eat an ice cream, go shopping, go to the movies, but stay off his vapid, heartless site. Please.

Please post soon.  We are all worried about you.  You are in my prayers.

I really do understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, men have brought more unhappiness to my life than joy.  I too have always taken a long time to heal, up until this last time.  I finally looked at myself and thought what am I doing?  Why am I crying over someone who doesn‘t deserve me? I made a concerted effort to get up and dust myself off and to get busy worrying about ME.  Make a plan.  If you have always wanted to live somewhere different, this is the time to do it.  If you want to go back to school or get a new job, do it.  If you want to take a yoga or pottery or whatever class, go sign up now.  Don‘t waste time worrying about what he is doing.  Focus on you.

The sooner you stop romanticizing that relationship the better.  You are writing about him as if he were perfect.  Well, I‘ve been reading your posts, darling and he was and is far from it.  He is a lying cheating scumbag, and the sooner you stop thinking he was your soulmate, the sooner you will start recovering.  Bad thoughts about him only!  That‘s an order!!

I know it hurts to feel like he is moving on, but don‘t be fooled by his seemingly perfect life.  Men always seem like they recover quickly.  But things are not always as they seem.  First of all, no one is crazy about everyone they date, and most of the time when a guy moves on too quickly, he loses interest just as fast.  He is only doing this as an avoidance tactic.  My sister  says she is glad when a man gets into a new relationship right away because she will only look better in hindsight and comparison.  (I have had a hard time adopting her thinking when I‘m in the midst of it but I have come to see she is right.)  I have a feeling that you are a very loving and supportive girlfriend and believe me, not everyone is like that.  Your ex will miss you more than you know and may want you back at some point.  Hopefully, at the point that he does you will no longer care because you are FAR too good for him.

Also, you never know when the sadness will hit them, but it usually does.  I have had men who acted like they couldn‘t have cared less about me at the time of the the breakup call me months, hell, years, later, crying (what babies) and saying they missed me.  I take my pain up front, thank you, and therefore don‘t find myself greiving long after it is appropriate.

I am not going to bother to try to change your mind right now about the fact that you will be alone forever, since you seem so set in it.....BUT...I actually don‘t believe it for a minute.  Despite how you feel right now, you will meet someone new in the future and he will be a much better person than your ex.  Keep praying.  Praying has helped me a great deal.  I will pray for you too.  Now go for a walk, rent a funny movie and go get yourself an ice cream!  I may be shallow, but I have replaced many a man with Chocolate Chip.

Love to you.

Hi, and welcome.  I am so sorry this is happening to you.  I also agree with DaGuru‘s post.  (Very beautifully said, Dag!) You should be with your children right now.  Life is too short to live far away just to make more money.  Of course, maybe you could move the children to be with you.  Or is this relocation a temporary thing ?  It is easier than you think to move with the children (without your wife) if you can show it is in the best interest of the children to do so.  Especially since 800 miles away is not that far and she could still have visitation easily.

It does not seem from your post that she knows you are onto her yet, but I noticed that you said you changed the passwords.  Won‘t that tip her off that you know what she is doing?

You sound like a very strong person, which is great.  It also sounds as if your wife has already checked out of the marriage.  I hope you decide to move on from her.  She does not sound like she appreciates you or the life you share.  Your wife is a fool, and willl eventually realize that she had a beautiful family and a man that loved her and she threw it all away.  She has no capacity for joy and for living.  You do, and nothing she does can take that away.  You will go on to be happy, but she will always be looking for something more.  Please don‘t think this is about you.  There is something wrong with her.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing. 

Almost everyone on these boards has had to let go of someone they love, and we all know how painful it is.  But how can you live like this? "Play stupid and hope it goes away"...could you ever really do that?  I certainly couldn‘t.  He has moved on from you.  He is treating you terribly. Please, accept that it is over, because it is.  What is there still to love?  The man you first knew?  He will never be that man again.

You are still young.  Do not let him rob you any more time only to leave you, because he will.  He is lying to your face and cheating on you!  You confronted him, and he did not stop the behavior.  There is nothing to salvage here.  Please protect yourself.  Make a plan, and leave him.

Just because they are free does not in any way mean they aren‘t excellent lawyers.  The Public Defenders who represent those charged with murder are the very best the system has to offer.  Also, when they are representing a murder client, that is frequently the only case they have, while a private lawyer could not afford to drop their other clients.  Public Defenders also have far more trial experience than private lawyers since they have had more cases during their careers and their clients don‘t have to consider finances when making the decision of whether to plead or go to trial. Fianlly, the state has money for investigation and experts that most private individuals can‘t afford.  When charged with murder, in most cases, people are actually better off with a public defender.  I would not make that same statement for those charged with lesser crimes, as the PDs who handle them are often so overloaded that a private lawyer can provide more attention.  However, in murder cases, I have seen many people ditch their PD for a private lawyer with less experience, which is a bad move. Just a little insight from someone in the system (but not a PD).

I hope the best for your friend‘s mother...she is in for a tough fight.

"From the Abuser‘s Point of View" is a really powerful one that mentions the silent treatment...ugh...hate that silent treatment.

I‘m confused.  Is she taking your girls with her on her tryst? Or are they staying with a neighbor and the neighbor is covering?  (You mentioned that she will be answering calls at the neighbor‘s.)  Are you going to go see the kids at the neighbor‘s?  The reason I am getting bogged down in the details is that I am overwhelmed by the boldness of her lies...a weekend "with the girls"...can‘t call "except tomorrow."  This reminds me of how obvious my ex sometimes was when covering his tracks, and it just makes me feel sick for you.

While I understand what Lady Jane is saying, I have a strong feeling that this relationship is past salvation.  As I said before, it appears not only from the affair, but from the disengaged attitude of your wife, that  she has already checked out of the marriage.  She seems disinterested in not only your marriage, but in the children.  Maybe I am being sexist by differentiating between men and women here, but when a woman reaches this point and is so narcissistic and uncaring about even her kids, she is already gone.  Your wife not only seems to no longer want to be a wife, but a mother.  I just can‘t imagine turning that around with a conversation.  Years of therapy, possibly, if she were actively seeking change, but otherwise, no. 

I admire the fact that you are already acknowledging that her actions are likely irreversible.  You could spend years bogged down in the what ifs and maybe we can work it out scenarios.  I just don‘t think that does any good once a woman has hit this point.  You should read Flyguy‘s post (I think it is in this same forum.)  His wife, like yours, has checked out.  He has tried to give her every chance possible, and she has responded with more deceit and distance.  Some people just don‘t deserve our efforts.

Women are different than men.  Perhaps a cheating man can be brought back from the brink once he longer shows signs of interest in his wife and kids (although I‘d debate that), but for a woman to show such a lack of interest in her children is a fatal flaw.  It goes against a woman‘s nature to display this, and I really think it shows just how narcissitic your wife is, and how far out of the relationship she has moved. She only cares about herself, and will never be truly happy with anyone. 

I feel for you, and hope I am wrong. Take care, and keep posting.

Flyguy, what you are experiencing is normal.  It is a form of denial that comes when we want desperately to hang onto something that is receding from us.  If you think, well that‘s the last straw, then it will be, and you don‘t seem to be ready to say that, at least not subconsciously.

The fact that you have known her since you were 14 sheds some light as to why you are so forgiving of her.  I think most people tend to have some part of them that freezes a person at the age at which they first met them, and although they may know someone for a long time, part of them will always respond to the initial image that they had of that person.  You do seem to repond to your ex as if she is a child--giving her chance after chance, making excuses for her poor behavior, in short, you seem to feel like the adult in the relationship.  I also think it is harder to part with her because she is tied to so much of your life....leaving her means abandoning memories from your adolescence on.

You are torturing yourself by reading those old letters.  Please stop doing that! You can‘t live in the past.  You are right, she has changed, irrevocably. You are banging your head against the wall, and it‘s time to stop.  She has shown you over and over again that she is incapable of change.  You have to start taking care of you.  No more looking back.  No more reading old love letters.  Once you make the decision that this is truly over you will feel better, you will sleep better, you will have closure.  You deserve that!

Kitty, that is tooooo creepy.  Why would any guy ever think you‘d want to find a note like that?  I have had freaks leave me notes too.  I think I am a freak magnet like in the article someone posted today.

I once had a favorite Chinese restaurant.  It was really cheap and since I was on  a diet kick I found it easier to order my favorite ( steamed chicken and vegetables) from them than to cook.  I ordered the same thing  every night for months.  I never spoke to anyone.  Just ordered, paid and left.  One night as I was leaving, the manager (who was probably 20 years older than I was) chased me down in the parking lot and handed me an envelope.  It was a card that had a phone on it and said Call Me.  He had written Hey Princess,  My day off  is Tuesday, blah blah blah.  As if !  Ewwww.   I never went back and I was so pissed because the only other takeout around was pizza and I have always blamed that guy for ruining one of my better  diets:)

Dbuck, hi hon. Sorry your husband is doing this to you.  Hopefully it was an isolated incident and does not represent a slip down his previous slope.  I know how hard it is to trust again and then get that awful nervous feeling when you catch them in a lie.  I think you are very wise to keep investigating and not let him know you are onto him...let‘s see what he does when you give him enough rope.  Otherwise, when confronted, they all just get sneakier for awhile...it‘s when they think you are relaxed about it all that the truth surfaces.

lorrie, he certainly did lose, and a lot more than money. How is your new place?  I had a hard time getting over a long relationship and finally moved to a new place.  The change made a big difference. No memories of him in my new space, no picturing him looking into the refridgerator or standing in front of the closet.  I also got rid of my comforter and bought a new one...change that bed karma!  And be sure to update on the groveling ex.  I love vindication stories.  They are so much better than revenge stories.  Anyone can paint "cheating bastard" on a car...they can always get a new car. But when a man realizes what he has lost, and let‘s you know it, that is like no other revenge on earth.

You are very brave.  I admire you.  I hope you‘ll grow to love your new place. 

I‘m so sorry his did this to you...what a bastard.  I can understand giving someone another chance, but you have done that, and he continued to betray your trust.  How can you ever trust him again?  Your husband has gone to some lengths to deceive you.  There is nothing worse than living everyday with that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. I‘m afraid that if you forgive him again he will just get better at covering his tracks.  If he didn‘t stop after getting caught, he is deeply addicted to the behavior and won‘t give it up.  I know it is hard, but if I were you, I would be planning my exit, and soon.

Hi and welcome!  I wish I could tell you I agreed with the coin, but I can‘t.  I think it is a huge mistake to marry someone who is already cheating on you.  He has cheated on you not once, but twice (that you know of).  You aren‘t married.  You have not gotten up in front of everyone and said your vows.  Why would you cement yourself to someone who is already showing you he can‘t be faithful?  I know you have been with him since you were quite young, but that does not always mean it is meant to be.  Look to his actions not his words.  All men talk big when they know they have screwed up and you have caught them red handed.   What did he first do when you got engaged?  Had an affair. He is certainly not acting like a man who really wants to be married. 

If nothing else, go see the other woman. Be nice to her and tell her you are just trying to figure things out.  Resist the urge to blame her in any way.  I am very, very suspicious about his explanation.  In my expereince, women only get crazy like that when there is still something going on, not that long afterward.  I think he has cheated on you again very recently, and if you marry him, he will continue to betray and disappoint you.  Okay, now I am going to quote some damn fine TV psychologists, Oprah and Dr.Phil:  When a man shows you who he is, believe him! And (my favorite): The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. 

Keep posting!  From this website, many of us have gained the strength to walk away when we needed to.  Many of us also thought we never could when we first came here.  Whatever you decide to do, we are here for you.

Good for you for contacting the other woman!  That‘s awful that his mother stuck up for him.  How dare she criticize you after what he did to you! It is no wonder he became be the lying cheater he is with a mother like that. I hate mama‘s boys.

Again, I think it‘s great that you caught him.  Keep posting here.  I hope you know this is about him, not you.  He is sick!  You will get past this.  Actually, it sounds like you are well on your way.  Please stick around. Sharing your expereinces here will help you move on even more quickly.  I like your style...asking the other woman if he said you were just a friend right in front of him...priceless!! 

kalyviaa, I love it!  Please post an update after you meet up with him.  Or better yet, where are you going so I can go watch?  I‘m in Denver too.

Just kidding about the watching part, but I really am in Denver too.

Honey, your post doesn‘t give a complete picture of this guy and what you have been through with him and what he is very likely doing with this My Space account.  I have read the rest of your posts, and given his history, I‘d be really concerned.  You are with a serial cheater. In your other posts, you related that he has cheated on you multiple times in your relationship.  My bet is he is doing it again.  It is one thing to forgive someone once, and hope that they have changed, but when they show you they haven‘t by doing it agin, it is time to say goodbye.  How can you live like this, always wondering what he is doing?  I understand how hard it is to leave someone you love, and so does everyone else on this site.  We will be here for you, but you should show  him the door.

Ah, the old men are genetically coded to spread their seed.  I know this theory may have some scientific validity but too many men use it to excuse bad behavior.  If you think it is imposible to be faithful, it certainly will be.  I know men always like to believe that being stuck, er, I mean faithful to one guy is easy for women, but it‘s not.  We have tempations as well, hell, probably more than men do since we get pursued more often than men do and know that we aren‘t going to get shot down if we do the offering.  If a woman offers sex to a man, he will almost always say yes.  I doubt the same holds true in reverse.

Sorry, but the image of men, blindly propelled forward in a zombielike state by the need to propogate the species, makes me crazy.

Hi honey, I was thinking of you today and wondering how you are feeling.  I know everyone else is wondering too.  Please post and let us know you are okay.

Hey dbuck,

First of all, I have to echo Rhi‘s post that you are beautiful and your husband is an immature ass to be putting you through this.  (I think Rhi said it more kindly, but he is acting like an idiot so I am calling it as I see it.) 

I‘m so sorry you are feeling like this.  God, I miss my ex sometimes but I do not miss the anxiety or the sleeplessness or the fear that he will do it again.  I know how awful that is. I know he will get mad that you are bringing it up again, buit if you need to know, you need to know. Don‘t worry if it will upset him-screw it!  He did this and you would have every right to ask him about it daily if you wanted to.  Maybe you could just say that you are feeling a lot of anxiety because you did not ask the questions at the time and that you now realize you need to know more details in order to move on.  Have you gone to joint counseling about it?  Maybe your counselor could be there as an intervenor (I feel so new-agey suggesting that!)

Again, I‘m sorry you are feeling anxious.  I hope you get some rest tonight.  Take care.

Hi Katie and Anti-Niss, of course they both say they want to be friends.  You are both loving, supportive, sweet, fun women.  Who wouldn‘t want to be friends with you?  I‘m sure you have treated these guys wonderfully, but it‘s time for that to stop.  Don‘t underestimate what you have to offer by thinking that giving your friendship is no big deal.  By agreeing to be friends, you are sublimating your desires for theirs.  You wanted more. They did not want that.  Do not give them all they want by agreeing to a friendship.  Ultimately it will only make you feel worse.  I say let them miss you!  They will!  Take care...things will get better by the day.  Honestly, they will.

lorrie, my first reaction is that I want to kill him. He betrays you and Lucy, destroys your marriage, makes you sell your home, and all for a few months with this other woman.  Wow, he is a real idiot.  I hope it was worth it to him, because from reading your posts over the last several months, I don‘t know that you will be able to get past this, even if you want to.  I do think he may have murdered not only your marriage, but your love and respect for him.Wow, I really am speechless, which is rare for me.  I will try to give you some better advice later after I‘ve had a chance to think, but I just wanted to let you know that I‘ll be thinking of you. 

Wow lulu, this guy is playing you well.  Don‘t think for a minute that he told his wife anything.  He is telling you that so you won‘t spill the beans to her.  Very slick.  Come on, use your common sense.  What woman would say well, you have a weakness for her...this guy is so full of it and, sorry, but you are a fool to believe it.  You can call the other posters bitter as your way of deflecting their advice, but I‘m not married, no one is cheating on me (at least not currently LOL;)  and I still think what you are doing is horrible.

Of course he is begging you to stay.  This guy is getting it all!  But I notice he is not leaving his wife for you, and even if you don‘t want to see it, that menas something.  It is easy to get divorced, especially after a short marriage.  If he wanted you full time, he could be with you.  

I find it fascinating that you won‘t let go of him (oh right, I forgot, it is HE that won‘t let go of you), but that you find it difficult to understand why this woman, his wife, who stood up in front of everyone she knew with this loser just one year ago, whom he promised to love and cherish forever, won‘t let him go. If you feel you have such standing in this relationship, he has "cheated" on you as well, and yet you can‘t leave.  How dare you fault her for trying to hang on to her marriage??  You are being hugely hippocritical with that one. 

Every mistress believes her situation is "complicated."  It certainly is, but not in the way that you think.  This guy is a bastard and a major player who is not capable of loving either of you.  You are amassing some pretty awful karma, missy.  I am not saying any of this to be cruel, but rather to wake you up!  I hate seeing men like this have it all, I just hate it!  Damn, wake up and look at your situation.  He is clearly using you.  Please get out while you can and find a man who can actually care for you, not this slimey creep.

Okay, let her rip.  I‘m sure you have plently to say about what I wrote, but really, I am doing you a favor.  You need help. Please get some therapy.

Whenever an ex feels the need to call and tell you how great their life is, you can bet it‘s actually not going well at all.  When people are happy, they don‘t have the inclination to call and brag.  Think about it...when you are newly in love, do you even care what the ex is doing?  I know I don‘t.

I can‘t stop laughing over the fact that he blamed his drinking on being with you, yet he is drunk when he is calling you.  This guy is a moron....you are so much better off without him honey!

Stop being mad at yourself for talking to him. Just don‘t answer next time.  And there will be a next time, despite how fabulously his life is going!

I can never beleive the gall some men have.  He left you, now he wants you back and he is going to haunt you until he gets his way!  It sounds like he thinks you owe him another chance.  I should really stop being surprised when men pull this shit, but honestly I never am.  Ugh. Sorry lorrie, I know this is horribly draining for you.  I hope you are doing okay.

What???? I am totally confused.  Just a week or so ago you wrote the following :

He just called and stupid me answered the phone. He told me that he was in love with this ex-friend of mine and that she had been there for him since the day I left.He said that he hasn‘t been this happy since before his wife left.He also told me everybody sees him smile now and that they all know now that I was the reason he was drinking so much. {He was drunk when he called me}.Damn I let him get to me. I am so pissed at myself right now for arguing with him.I did exactly what he wanted me to do.

What happened to the ex-friend that he was supposedly so damn happy with? This guy is a freak!  Don‘t get too upset over spoiling some kids for 3 days...anyone can keep up any kind of behavior for three days, honey.  Plus, he must not have treated them that well--they left after all!  This is one of those situations where you will look back at his pathetic behavior and laugh.   Honestly, you will, and my bet is that time is closer than you think. When you hit that point, I hope you come back here and post all about it.  I‘ll be waiting.  You are going to be fine, but stop answering this loser‘s calls!

I am so sorry.  I am tearing up from reading your post.  The fact that your husband is still feeding you this line of bullshit after you have uncovered the truth is a real sign that he not only has a black heart, but that he will likely do this to you again if you give him the chance.  While acting sorry and taking reponsibility isn‘t an assurance that the cheating won‘t reocuur, without those things it is a given.

It is not unusual to still love someone despite their betryal.  Almost all of us on here have experienced it.  Sometimes though, you have no choice but to leave someone, despite that love.  Only you can say if there is anything worth salvaging in your relationship, but if your husband is not sorry for what he has done to you, there is no overcoming that. 

Please keep posting...we are here for you!

Abigail, welcome! That is awful that you have to see him looking at another woman in that way.  And he texed her that he loved her?  I am sorry to tell you this, but he is cheating...men don‘t tell friends that they love them.  Trust your instincts!  If you feel something is going on, it probably is.  Unfortuntely, many of us have learned that the hard way.

Why don‘t you start a new thread?  It‘s easier that way and the advice you get will be specific to your thread.  Thanks!

Nothing is wrong with you.  One of the worst things about the betrayal is how it sneaks up on you when you feel you are recovering.  I would feel fine and then the next day the panicy feeling would spread.  You will likely experience unexpected bouts of anger for a very long time.

I‘m sure your husband feels that the details would only hurt you, and in some ways, he may be right.  The more you know, the more you will visualize them together. You do have a right to answers, but I just don‘t know if it really helps to get them.  That has been my experince anyway.  Sometimes it just makes it more real, and more painful.

I hope you find peace with this.  

Hmmm...love like I‘ve never been hurt.  While that may  not have been possible before I spent the last year coming here everyday reading these boards, it certainly isn‘t possible now!  Honestly though, loving like I‘ve never been hurt would, at this point, make me an idiot.  I can‘t ignore my experiences, and would not want to.  I have learned to protect myself, and while I don‘t experience that over the edge abandon anymore, I also don‘t experience the extreme disappointment...well, not as often anyway.  As of this point in my life, my interactions with men have brought me more pain than pleasure.  I hope that balance shifts someday, but I must admit that there are days when I really have my doubts that it ever will. (Today is obviously one of them...sorry that my answer is totally depressing!)

Randy, you are too funny.  I don‘t think I‘ve ever told anyone this story before. Although I‘m tempted to make it a good and sexy story for you in which a came loudly in the middle of the stacks, I‘ll tell you the truth...I was unfortunately too nervous to enjoy it...several people walked by and stopped an gawked, I think mostly because they were trying to determine if we were really doing what they thought we were doing ( I was straddling him wearing a skirt on a couch, so it wasn‘t like we were screwing up against a row of books).  I was much younger and actually worried about what people thought back then...if I ever have sex in a public place again, I plan to enjoy it damnit!

Oh honey, don‘t wish your life away!  Make September a great month...you can! If you think you will have a breakdown you will, but if you believe you are strong and invincible, you will be that too.  Neither Sal nor Niss deserve you.  This is the time in your life to focus on you.  I know everyone keeps telling you that, and you respond that you are already doing that, but you are also focusing on two men who will bring you nothing but misery. 

Let‘s start by finding you a new screen name.  I know you  hate everyone calling you Niss, but with your screen name as it is, it‘s going to keep happening.  Love the Avatar though.

By the way, did you really date someone named "the Nub"?  I am afraid to ask you what that stands for....

I don‘t think you are crazy at all. That would bother me too.  I also have curly hair that I often blow straight so I know how much work it is.  (How do you get is straight in the summer in NY??  You must have some great styling product secret that I expect you to share with me right now!!)

It is funny about betryal.   Sometimes I think back on little things that I now know he lied to me about and I still hurt, even though we haven‘t spoken in months.  Unfortunately, I think there will be things that suddenly occur to you and bother you for some time, and many of them will only make sense to you.  I‘m so glad your husband is making an effort for you, and I hope you find relief from the sadness soon.

Lonely, I just read the rest of your posts.  You should go back and re-read them.  You said you were trying to leave in December 2005.  Honey, why didn‘t you? This guy is a real bastard.  First he was hitting you and emtionally abusing you.  Now he has moved on to another form of abuse: he is cheating on you, and cheating on you when you are pregnant no less! (And yes, despite what he says, he is cheating...hickies are a distinctive mark that you really can‘t get any other way).  Don‘t for a minute believe his BS.

I know you are pregnant and that this will not be easy, but you have to make the break!! I don‘t care why he won‘t leave...I care why you won‘t!  You recognized in your last posts that your husband is horribly abusive and no prize.  Now you stayed with him and are having another baby.  His behavior is getting worse.  Please, how much more can you accept?  I am sorry.  I do not mean to sound harsh, but I am concerned. You should be wondering what you are going to do, instead of wondering why he is choosing to do what he is doing.

Keep posting...we are here for you.

DaGuru, I hate to disagree with you, but your advice is the very reason men end up calling women 3 years later, crying and saying they want to get back together, while the woman, who grieved at the APPROPRIATE time, is long over it.  There is no substitute for grief.  You can put it off and put it off, but it will catch up with you eventually. 

Patrick, I‘m sorry you are hurting, but you are doing the right thing, and in the right way.  I am impressed that you were honest with her. As a result of your honesty, she won‘t be able to easily dismiss the fact that you aren‘t ready for marriage, and will hopefully see that  breaking up is best.

You will feel better, but it is going to take awhile. Take care.

Dag,

I have known very decent men who have tried the old "can‘t get over someone until you get under someone" method you are advocating, and yes, years later they finally find themselves crying to anyone who will listen about a woman they haven‘t spoken to in years.  I still believe that if someone pushes under their emotions, whether it be by using food, alcohol, drugs, or sex, those emotions will eventually come to the surface at very inconvenient times (like when you should long be over something but aren‘t). 

Patrick had six years with this woman.  In my opinion it would serve him better to feel the sadness accompanied with a major loss now and save the womanizing for later.  If he doesn‘t mourn this loss, his future girlfriends will suffer for it.  Grief is part of life, and part of being a human being with feelings.  It would be nice to be able to experience only the feelings that we want to experience and ignore the rest, but I really don‘t think life works that way.  If you were lucky enough to avoid the pain of breakups by hooking up with someone new, good for you, but I believe that‘s unusual.

Hi and welcome!  I just want to clarify: have you left him, or are you looking for ways to heal the relationship? I assume you have left him since you are asking if there are nice guys left, but I feel like I could give you better advice if I knew a little more. 

I was just reading a survey on MSN about men‘s habits, etc. and one of the questions was whether they had ever cheated on a wife or significant other.  Only 25% said they had cheated.  If that‘s accurate, it‘s a pleasantl suprise to me ( I do spend a lot of time on this website though, so maybe my perspective is a bit scewed!)  So if it really is only 25%, that means you have a good chance of finding a non-cheater.

Take heart.  There are nice men out there, and some of the women on this site have found them once they have gotten rid of the dead wood that is their exes.

Welcome!!  Wow, 31 years.  Congratulations for being so brave as to get rid of him.  I know that couldn‘t have been easy.

I‘m sorry he did this to you and that he would not accept responsibility for his actions.  Your husband is a narcissistic bastard.  Please read the great articles about narcissism collected by the Blogmistress and you will see what he is really about.  My guess is that he will have a hell of awake up call someday and realize his grave mistake.  I also would guess that from the strength of your actions in getting rid of him even before you knew what was causing the bad behavior, that you will want nothing to do with him.

Keep reading and posting.  It really does help, and you have a lot to offer others who don‘t believe they have the courage to leave much, much shorter realtionships than the one you ended. 

I know you probably weren‘t trying to be funny, but you made me laugh anyway. 

It will be okay eventually, but you will have sad moments along the way.  From your age and the length of time you 2 dated, I would think this would be your first major relationship.  I‘m sure you both learned a lot from one another and in the future, when she is no longer angry with you, she will probably think fondly of your relationship.  Had you stayed in it and she caught you cheating rather than having you confess to your mistakes, there would be little chance she‘d ever think well of you again.  As it stands, you two might even be able to be friends someday. I dated someone for 5 years and when he told me we weren‘t right together anymore and he had met someone else and wanted to be with her, I never believed I would be able to talk to him without crying again.  We went for a long time without speaking, probably about a year, but we do talk occasionally now and I know if I ever needed anything,  he would be there for me.  I respected him for ending it when things with this woman were in the early stages instead of  cheating on me for years until I found out.

You are doing the right thing.  Breakups are hard, but divorce is harder. Are you two speaking or are you going cold turkey?  I know it seems counter- intuitive, but no contact is actually easier in the long run.

Take care.

I take it he knows your situation (ie. that you are married)?  If so, he entered into this knowing it could end at any time.  For the sake of your marriage, I would tell him that you cannot be friends because it isn‘t fair to your spouse.  You seem so concerned about his feelings...please focus all that emotion on what you are doing to the person you promised to love, honor etc. and just break the affair off now.  I understand that your boyfriend never did anything unkind to you, but he alos knows what he is doing to your marriage, or helping you do to your marraiage, isn‘t right.  He will understand if you make the breakup discussion brief and insist on no contact.

I am a little confused.  Is this the boyfriend who you were worried was cheating with women from museums and church?  I hope you are really ready to let him go.  You seemed pretty concerned about what he was doing and those posts are very recent.  Also, and I am not trying to kick you when you‘re down, the fact that you are married would have been pertinent in that post, as , while I can‘t say for certain, I would guess that those who responded would have said what‘s good for the gander is good for the goose and that he can see anyone he wants. 

I think you are right, and that you have no choice but to leave him.  He obviously has no respect for you, and I don‘t want to hurt you by saying this, but I can‘t believe they aren‘t having a physical affair.  He is obviously very taken with her if he is willing to put in all that phone time.

I read on this site somewhere that in 85% of the cases when a woman thinks her partner is cheating, she turns out to be right.  (The rate is lower for men being right--I guess they don‘t call it  "women‘s intuition"for nothing!)  When I thought my ex was cheating, all my friends thought I was paranoid and crazy, and he treated me as if I was paranoid and crazy.  When I received a call from his other girlfriend, I was devestated, but at least I knew that my instincts hadn‘t betrayed me.  Yours haven‘t betrayed you either.  You know this isn‘t normal.  How can you live like this?  When I think about missing my ex, I remind myself of what I now have that I did not have with him:  I have peace of mind.  I can sleep.  I am not constantly twisted and worrying. I have a future with hope in it. 

I agree with Rhi and everyone that you should spend time on yourself and look great...but I don‘t think you should do it to try to get your husband  to notice.  Do it for yourself and the new guy that will come along as soon as you dump this inconsiderate bastard.  You would be wasting your time in trying to get your husband to notice anything--his attentions are elsewhere.

I feel for you and know it is easy for me to say that you should leave.  But I have been reading this thread since you posted and wondering how you can stand it.  He is a first class creep.

We are here for you!

Or worse yet he and the new woman will read it together and get a rush over the thought that Tera still thinks about them and still is affected by them.

Honey, you are an incredible woman, he‘s a loser.  Your instincts are right in that this is a good letter to write but not to send.  You are moving on and doing great.  Don‘t let him think you aren‘t by allowing him to read your thoughts.  Don‘t send it, ever.

If you want to drive him crazy, just never answer another one of his calls.  Damn, he should have kissed your ass--a woman 20 years younger isn‘t enough for him?  Let him think you met someone else.  Let him think you got tired of him.  Let him think whatever his crazy head dreams up.  He doesn‘t deserve an explanation from you.

Welcome!  you sound very strong...good for you!  Please keep posting.  We are here for you.

You are not paranoid.  That condoms story is complete bullshit. Why would he be emptying room garbage anyway??  That would not be his responsibility.  He is full of crap.  And the secretiveness...that is a big red flag.  I feel for you, but I urge you to look at this with eyes wide open.  In the end you will be glad you did not let him get away with anything a minute longer than necessary.  If you feel you don‘t have enough proof yet, don‘t talk about this with him.  If he thinks you aren‘t watching him, he will get sloppy.  If he thinks you are onto him, he‘ll only get sneakier.

Please keep posting.  It really does help.  We are here for you!

It has only been three weeks....are you sure you shouldn‘t give it a little more time?  Just because he seems to be falling in love with you puts you at no obligation to do the same.  You should be able to take your time and figure out how you feel.  If you need more space, maybe you should just tell him that but keep seeing him to see if it clicks. 

I read something once that stuck with me about not feeling that immediate connection.  People like me who are very used to unhealthy relationships seem to have a radar for the wrong guy.  I have always relied on the immediate connection and while I have been wildly attracted to thise i‘ve dated, I tend to pick the players.  According to the book, when I feel an attraction of a 10 to someone on the scale of 1-10, I should actually run, because it means I am tapping into the unhealthy part of myself that is drawn to my typical type.  If I feel like I am attracted more on the 7-8 level, I should, according to the book, give it more time because it is likely that the guy is a nice one and one which I would otherwise avoid.  Does that make sense?

If you said you were disgusted during sex, I would not be giving you this advice.  But it sounds like you just feel pressured because he is more into you than you are to him.  If that‘s the case, I‘d say keep seeing him and enjoy having the upper hand!  It doesn‘t always happen and it doesn‘t always last but not many men would drop you for the reasons you‘ve given.

Let me know what you decide.  Only you know what is right to do here.  Just don‘t feel like you have to love someone overnight or he is not Mr. Right. 

Can you call her?  Not to yell at her, but to find out what is really going on.  I don‘t believe this was not a physical affair with so much talking...he is roped in big time.  I would call her and say you need to know what he has told her.  I suspect he is lying to her too.  When you call, I would try to be calm and to place the blame where it belongs...on the person who promised to love, honor and cherish you.  (I am not saying she is in any way right for carrying on with your husband, but I also suspect that he is lying to her too--telling her things are over or bad between you and that you are something you are not.  Just a hunch.)  You will get mor information from her if you try to be calm and not get angry with her.  Trust me, I know this will not be easy but maybe you will get the answers from her that you are not getting from this lying, inconsiderate cheater.

I am glad you are here and hope you find peace.  With your daughter‘s illness, this would already be the most difficult time in your life.  Think about the fact that while you are suffering, he is playing around.  This is the way he supports you.  What a creep.

I am sorry you are going through this...the anxiety is terrible, isn‘t it?  I have come to believe that our instincts are there to protect us, and if you think something is going on, it very likely is. Don‘t let on to him that you believe his is cheating, and watch him carefully.  If he is being seen with her, he is pretty relaxed about this, and he will slip up.  Is he acting differently?  Fluctuating between distant and sweet?  Look for the signs and read, read read.  Go to the articles section of this site and read how to catch at cheater. 

As for listening to your pastor, you have to do what is right for you. If your husband isn‘t making you feel secure and like he is lucky to have you, maybe it is time to leave, even without "proof." 

Please keep posting--we are here for you! 

I had one guy tell me he fantacized about a threesome with me and my sister...Ewwww!  I stopped right then and never touched him again. 

My long distance ex-boyfriend with whom I thought I had a monogomous relationship, told me during drunk phone sex (well, him drunk, me sober, sadly), "I even think of you when I‘m f***ing other girls."  He was so drunk he actually thought I‘d be glad to hear that.

I can sort of laugh about this now......okay, not really yet.

It really must be going around...I have been feeling blue lately as well.  I had been doing really well with the breakup and have not had any contact with him since the beginning of June.  I am suddenly feeling lonely and sad about it, amost as if it just happend.  I even had thoughts of contacting him, but thanks to being able to come here everyday and be reminded of why I shouldn‘t, I haven‘t done it.  Thanks to all of you for being here...

I wonder if it has something to do with the time of year.  Ever since I was a child, I would associate Fall with positive things...new school year, new friends, new beginnings.  Even though I‘m no longer in school, I still find myself eagerly anticipating this time of year and then I feel let down when it gets here and nothing is different.  I have been really needing a change, so I am making plans to make one.  I am planning to move to the east coast in the Spring, so I am trying to focus on that when I get blue.

As for being alone, I am still hopeful that I will find someone someday.  At least I‘m not still floundering in a relationship where I am being deceived and trying to get blood from a stone. When I feel lonely, as I often do lately, I focus on the fact that I have hope now, and peace.  And that at least there are good TV season premiers on to keep me company:) 

Love you all.

Hey T...Welcome to womansavers from a neighbor...I have yet to find a decent man in Colorado....I really must get out of here:)  That‘s awful.  When did this happen?  Where was your boyfriend (God, I hope and pray EX-boyfriend) while this was happening?  Did you talk to her afterward? What did he have to say for himself?

Getting over something like this is really hard, but it is actually better that you know for sure that he is cheating...so many times the signs are there but it takes months or even years to uncover the lies....time you would have wasted with a lying, cheating loser.

Please tell us more and keep posting!  It is very therapeutic and will help you get through this.

Hi Margarett and welcome....I‘m so sorry he did this to you!  What a complete bastard.  I agree with BMW and LMWS that you should ignore his request to call him...a guy like this will only get off on your pain.  He didn‘t even care enough about your feelings to call you, or to even write a decent e-mail for that matter.  Did he not even re-read it....it is full of duplicate sentences! 

The thing that kept running through my mind as I read this was how miserable he and the woman he is moving in with are going to be in a few months.  Don‘t be surprised if you hear from him then.  And I hope you don‘t take his calls then or now.

Please keep posting!  Coming here has been the only thing that has gotten me through this and has kept me from calling in those weak moments that we all have.  We all help each other here and we and your off-line friends are certainly much better company than this guy could‘ve been. The only thing that rang true in his e-mail is that he probably has disapointed you before.  Time for you to disapoint him! Don‘t give him the response he wants.  He just wants to hear you cry.  It will kill him to be ignored, so if you really want to bother him, do just that.

Take care!

I‘m sorry you are feeling down.  I know how hard it is when you get excited about a guy and then he disappoints you...I‘ve been there many times.

One of my best friends internet dates all the time.  She has been having better luck lately because she meets the guy very quickly rather than exchanging a bunch of e-mails or calls.  It wasn‘t always like that....she used to get all invested in talk and e-mails.  It seemed like every time she talked or e-mailed for months or weeks with a guy and then went out with him, it always ended badly.  After watching her get horribly disappointed when a man she had talked to for hours and hours failed to call again after they met, I suggested she keep the e-mail and talk time brief and meet right away...even if it means a long distance trip.  Otherwise, the fantasy takes over and no matter how great you are, the other person is visualizing a fantasy playgirl/playboy that no one can live up to.  There are also a lot of men who are damn scared of a relationship yet will talk your ear off for months or use you for company if you let them.  Suggesting a quick meeting tends to weed them out.  I would also offer this piece of advice:  try to not get invested in or excited about someone until you‘ve actually met them and even then, keep your guard up a bit.  The whole I love you thing without spending significant time together can never be real.

Take care and keep posting!

Wow, this enrages me and I wasn‘t even there!  What a witch.  I am not a violent person, but I have to say she is lucky you didn‘t slap her.  Jilly, your ex is a lying scummy cheater.  That woman won‘t be laughing for long.  Your ex will undoubtedly pull his same crap on her, and my guess is that you will hear about it. 

Don‘t beat yourself up about this incident, but now it is time to totally extract yourself from this disaster.  Let them have each other...if she doesn‘t feel she is competing with anyone for him, he will be a lot less  appealing.  Don‘t add excitement to their relationship.  My guess is that without you to spice things up and make her believe she is getting some "prize," they will be pretty bored with each other before long, and that their relationship will be over within a year.  It is likely that at that point he will come back crying.   If he does, I hope you slam the door in his face and jump on here and tell us about it!!

It will get easier.  Love to you!

That‘s great!! Congratulations and good for you for having the strength to go to the meeting.  It is hard to go to things like that alone and you did it.  You are a very strong woman, and now that you have shed the loser, good things are going to be coming your way...I can feel it!  And I do think that in the future your sister is going to deeply regret her actions, if only because she will need somewhere to stay when things go sour with that control freak she lives with.

You have accomplished so much in the last few months!  I can‘t wait to hear how happy you are in your new place. 

Sammi, I agree with Randy.  I think your feelings for your "friend" go far deeper than you are letting on.  I noticed that on another thread (I think in the sex forum) you are asking why this same friend would care that you masturbate.  You are awfully focused on his feelings.

You are on a slippery slope honey!  You say your husband is glad that you are all friends again.  Does he know you two discuss your masturbatory (that has got to be a word!) habits?  I hope that all this chit chat doesn‘t lead to another hookup with the friend.  You could lose your marriage over this.  Are you prepared for that?

Rhi, wow that is interesting.  I can fully understand being curious to see him.  I know it seems romantic that he is calling almost a year to the day he left, and I must admit to missing a breath when I read that.  We all want to believe they have changed.  Time almost heals too well...I know I often find myself unable to remember the bad or why something ended.  However, as someone who took back an ex only to have him leave me again, I want to tell you to please be careful!  My ex said everything I wanted to hear to get another chance, and I never thought he would hurt me again.  But he did, and I am finding myself struggling again to get past it. In some ways,it is harder this time.

I have always admired your clear headedness, and your words have given me strength on so many occassions.  There has only been one thing that you have expressed in your posts that has bothered me, or maybe a better way to say it is to say that it has made me sad.  While you are very hopeful about other people‘s ability to go forward and what their lives will bring, when it comes to you and this man, you always state that you have come to grips with the fact that he is the only one for you and that he has ruined you for all others.  I always feel sad when I read that because I see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy.  You are so vibrant and intelligent, and you deserve someone who will realize what he has in you.  You say that you two have broken up many times.  I may sound naive, but I have always believed that when the right person comes along, you don‘t break up over and over.  I see it with the couples I know are happy...it isn‘t dramatic or up and down.  It flows.  I wish that for you.

I hope that this visit goes well for you, and that if you decide to reconcile with him, it is for good.  If you don‘t, I hope seeing him will give you closure.  You are a wonderful woman, and even if you have given up hope that you will meet someone else, I know you will:)  Your heart just needs to be free first.

I am here for you...please let us know what he says!

She was going to tell you the truth, and so he kicked her out in a rage.  You should have confronted her alone, but by now he has probably threatened her so you will probably not be able to get the truth out of her either.  But honey, you KNOW the truth...it is obvious what happened.

The "crying thing" is manipulation.  He thinks if he distracts you with his tears you won‘t see that he is lying to you.  A very old trick.  Don‘t fall for it.

lori, he obviously doesn‘t want to sign the papers and acknowledge that he has permanently lost the best thing that ever happened to him.  I‘m sorry he is putting you through this.  Unlike him, I‘m sure you just want it over at this point.

If he doesn‘t pay you on January 1st and your lawyer files a motion for contempt , even if it is not resolved right away, cakeman will owe you back support from the time you filed the motion.  Just keep in touch with your lawyer...he will help you.  I‘m sure if you want him to, he will call or write cakeman in December and remind him of his obligation.

Take care, sweets.

How can you live like this, honey?  Believe me, with a marriage of twenty years, you will likely get maintenance for at least 10 years, and if you file a petition to get divorced, you will go before the court and  start receiving temporary maitenance right away.  The law is designed to have temporary orders right away so people like you don‘t have to stay and will have money to live on until things are finalized.  Please, go see a lawyer, or at the very least, someone at legal aid.  (If he makes good money and you have been a homemaker during the marriage, the court will likely order him to pay your attorney fees).  You can do this.  You need to be free of this man.  It will be hard at first, but then you will realize he‘s not your problem anymore.  You will sleep again.  I know...like everyone else here, I have been there.

love to you...please stop crying...he doesn‘t deserve you tears.

Okay everyone, I am feeling weak.  I am really battling and could use some horror stories to pull me through.  I don‘t know why, but after 5 months of no contact on either side, I am fighting a daily urge to contact him. 

In brief, we were long distance.  After about 8 months, I found out he had a whole other relationship, and the woman had actually moved in with him.  When they broke up, I took him back, and things were good at first.  Then came the shift.  When I last spent time with him, he acted so cold and distant that I knew there was someone else.  He didn‘t admit it of course, and since we were long distance, I had no way of knowing for sure.  At the time of the breakup, he wanted to keep in touch, but I said no.  Now I am weakening...

Please tell me all your most awful stories about contacting someone and having them act like a freak!  I know nothing good can come of this.  Even if he were free (which I highly doubt), I could never trust him again after what he did, so I know we can‘t be together. 

I‘m sitting back with my popcorn...stories please!

Hi WP...wow, you never know when they are going to resurface.  I‘ve been reading your posts since you got here and have seen such progess in you.  You are doing great!  Do not let this derail you.   

Okay, here‘s a cheater-came-crawling-back story with a not so happy ending.  I found out my long-distance boyfriend was cheating on me when I recieved a call from his other girlfriend saying they had been long distance also, but she had recently moved in with him...really, the stuff that day-time TV is made of.  She and I had a long amicable talk and I told her she would not have to worry about me any longer as I was letting go.  She said she had just graduated from school and therfore had no money, so she was going to try to make it work.

When he called to apologize and tell me I was the one he really loved and that she had pushed him into this because she was totally reliant on him financially, I told him goodbye and never expected to hear from him again.  About 5 months later, however, he called, saying the whole thing had been a collosal mistake, she had moved out and he begged me to get back together with him.  God, as I write this, I am thinking I am nuts because I not only took him back, but even after what happend next, I love him still, and actually miss him...

We spent a lot of time together over the next 6 months, more than before.  Although we lived 2,000 miles away, we really made an effort. We were talking about moving to be together.  Just when things were going very well, the commitmentphobic in him took over.  I could see it happening, and could feel the palpable change.  Cheating is his way of detaching, and I‘m sure it always will be.  He began to act cold and distant, was keeping strange hours, and all the signs were there.  I felt sick again, because I knew there was someone else.  I said something to him about it, and he denied it but said he didn‘t like feeling pressured, and broke things off.  He asked me if he could call me and I said no. I have not heard from him since. 

So, there‘s my story of a cheater who came crawling back, only to devestate me again.  Maybe you should just delete those text messages, honey.  It is so easy to be strong until you hear his voice.  These guys are master con artists.  Keep me posted!

Thank you all so much for your wise words and comfort.  I am going to print this out for the next time I feel weak.  I don‘t really know what has triggered this, except that when we broke up, my sister was temporarily living with me.  I really liked having her there,  and I looked forward to seeing her when I came home. I asked her to stay, but I live almost an hour from her job and the commute wore her out.  I have found that I am taking the breakup harder than I did initially, which probably has to do with her absence and the fact that I am depressed that despite the fact that it has been 5 months, I still think of him daily.  You would think that when someone has been such a worm, it would be easy to get over it.

Each of you has given me valuable things to remember when I get weak.  Slappy, thank you for reminding me that he will likely miss me if I don‘t contact him. My self-esteem doesn‘t always kick in when it should and I forget that I am missable. lori, thank you for reminding me that I need to remember who I am, and what he did to me.  I don‘t think I would like myself too much if I gave into this weakness.  Rhi, you helped me think about why I am feeling this way, and why now.  I think I am feeling wounded that he hasn‘t contacted me...I honestly thought he would.  I usually have too much pride to be the one who does the contacting.   Thank you for reminding me of all the scenarios that I could be opening myself up to by contacting him and their probable outcomes.  And Defyant, thank you for reminding me that contact with him will not turn out the way I am hoping and he will never show me the regret or love I am seeking from him.

I love you all.  Once again, I thank God for this site and don‘t know what I would do without it.  I won‘t be contacting him.

Hi Dr WS!

I have recently lost about 15 pounds.  I would like to lose another 10-15.  I should feel better, but I have noticed that I am feeling depression with the weight loss.  (Of course, I am still depressed about the recent end of the relationship, so it may be that my sadness relates to that, but honestly, since the diet, I seem worse and not better).  A friend mentioned that fat cells store hormones and that the hormones are released when the fat cells deflate.  As a result, our bodies are sometimes overwhelmed by the hormone surge and a blueness results.  Is this true and how long will it last?  Any suggestions for countering the effect?  I plan to stay on the diet even if there is no counter for this.   I find sometimes being able to intelectualize the whys of feeling blue is enough, so if there is truth in this, maybe it will help to know.  If not, I guess I am signing up for some therapy.  Thank you!

Hi WP...

No, I have not found anyone new, and to be honest with you have not had the inclination to look.  I have been hanging out mostly with my married friends and their kids and by myself...more time in the gym too, which has been good.  I know, I know, I do have to get back out there someday :)

So, when your ex said he had a lot to tell you, surely he didn‘t mean that he was unemployed and had gained 2 stone...isn‘t that about 30 pounds????  Damn, if I were him, I would have kept that to myself!!!  Too funny!

Please keep me posted....

I know I am getting to this discussion a little late, and that everyone disagrees with me, but I actually think the lip gloss incident is fishy.  I think cheaters get a sick charge out of mentioning stuff like this so that they can tell you they are cheating without actually telling you.  I know it sounds warped and sick, but I swear, I have seen it many times.  I think you are going to find out there is something going on, and I do not think you‘d be here if you did not have some greater intuition that something was wrong. 

Trust your gut, babe.  Good luck.

I think sometimes it is hard to let go because we aren‘t envisioning a hopeful future...it is easier just to want our old lives back than to move forward.  It may be hell, but it‘s a familiar hell!  I agree that giving this over to God really helps. When you think about your ex, pray that the thoughts will leave you and try to focus on the positive things in your life.  Have faith that better times are ahead.  In the meantime, hit the gym, rely on your friends, make this time about you.  Is there a class you‘ve been wanting to take? 

My younger sister gave me good advise this summer when I was really low.  She said rely on simple, shallow pleasures to cheer  up ...go shopping, hang out at a bookstore and read the books for free (I love sitting on the floor in the the self-help section to read and drink a latte when I am mourning a breakup!), see every movie that‘s out, eat an ice cream, or sushi, or whatever your favorite food is.  I must be shallow, because I‘ll tell you, I did all those things and it helped! :)

How are you feeling today?

You have fought hard enough.  There comes a point where you are just wasting your life with a man who does not deserve you.  I hope you leave this lying, cheating bastard.

I beleive in marriage and in God, but I know God did not put me on this earth to be a dorrmat.  Please, this man is killing you.  Please, please leave him.

Honey, how can you live like this?  You need to cut the cord and NOW.  Please stop searching for answers and focus on saving yourself.  He will never make sense to you because you are rational and sane.  His mind is disordered, and his soul is missing. 

As to staying with your cheater because you think the next man will likely be a cheater too, well, that is a cop-out.  You have to shake this out of yourself and know and believe you deserve better. 

As to staying with him for the material things, the torment you are feeling could never be worth it. I don‘t care if he is giving you diamonds every day, it is just not worth the heartache.  When you leave him, you will be sad for a while, and feel lonley, as we all have.  However, you will sleep again and have peace of mind.  You say this is affecting every aspect of your life.  No man is worth that, especially not a loser like this guy. 

Please keep us posted.  We are here for you.

Does anyone ever want to give up?  Married or not, we all loved our cheaters and it was painfiul to let them go.  One thing I have learned is that we cannot control the choices of others.  It is actually very freeing sometimes to admit that not everything is within our control.  Lady has tried hard, but her husband is fighting her efforts.  He clearly does not want to be married to her any longer, or he would not be giving her every reason to leave him.  I believe in marriage, but I do not believe it is a license to treat your spouse like crap, because you know their ethics demand they stay. 

At least if you kicked him out, you will see if he misses you or not.  You are providing him with a clean house, clean laundry and comfort.  You are not a maid.  You do not deserve to be treated lke this.  Show him you are not a dorrmat and kick him out.

I feel for you!  I think in the future avoid dating a neighbor.  I did it once too. I lived in a big apartment building, and after we broke up, I continued to see  him in the elevator or garage.  Ugh.  I will never do it again.  Your home is supposed to be your refuge and now you are forced to see, not only her, but her sons and her new/old guy daily.  That really sucks.  If you are just renting, I suggest you move.  I know it seems extreme, but you seem like a pretty deep guy and your feelings are going to remain strong if you see her all the time.  If you can‘t move, at least put as much distance as you can between the two of you and try not to be consumed with what she is doing.  I know it is hard with her living so close by.

As to what happened, she seems like a very messed up young woman.  Something you said really struck me.  She asked you about your feelings for her, waited until you totally expressed your love for her, then told you she was returning to her ex.  She is clearly someone who loves an ego boost.  Had she really been a good person and cared for you, she would not have put you through the pain of exposing your feelings only to dash your hopes.  This is a selfish woman looking for a rush. 

Sometimes short relationships are very hard to get over.  You haven‘t played everything out and you are left wanting more.  However, I think a life with this woman would have been extremely disapointing.  She seems to be always on the fence, and I don‘t think that ever would‘ve changed.  I know you feel this was meant to be partly because of the good chemistry. I have read that the best chemistry is often with people we know we cannot ever really have---on both sides there is the intensity that comes with the subconscious thought that each time could be the last.

I don‘t think she is coming back, honey.  You seem like a great guy.  Find someone who deserves you!  And please stop the drinking...she is not worth it.

We are here for you.  Please let us know how this turns out.

Honey, I am so sorry you are going through this.  That kind of money does not imply strippers and lap dances---it is going to hookers.  You say you have no prooof of intercourse.  Short of walking in on him screwing someone else, I would say you have the best proof there is.  Please look at the reality and stop pretending you are short of "proof."  You know what is going on.  You need to find the courage to confront what is in your heart and decide how you are going to handle it.

How can you live like this?  I do not believe this is salvageable.  Please, save yourself.  It will be hard at first, but as everyone here can attest, it will gets easier with time.

Take care.

Hi and welcome! I‘m sorry your boyfriend is doing this to you.   This woman is obviously playing him for money, and honestly, I think you are misplacing your concern by focusing on her.  He is the one who owes you loyalty and faithfulness, and you can bet if she were nearby, he‘d have already had sex with her.  I am concerned that this behavior is indicative of larger problems:  how long before he cheats with someone who is nearby?  Why isn‘t he listening to your concerns?  Why is he distancing himself from your relationship by paying so much attention to this fantasy woman?

I can tell by your post that you have not considered letting him go, but you should.  His actions realy call into question how he feels about you.  I am so sorry to be saying that to you, but I am trying to get you to really look at your situation and make the change before you have to.  He is starting down a slippery slope.  I do not believe it will be long before he really hurts you, but mostly likely not with this woman.  She is the symptom of a larger prooblem.  He is up to no good.  Please take care of yourself and stop worrying about her.  You have larger problems with this man. 

Congratulations, lover boy.  That is my new name for you.  This should give us all hope, chickies!  If someone as jaded as TOW can find love, surely there is hope for the rest of us!  Just teasing, Romeo...so happy for you.

You better not leave us though...we saw you first!

It is absolutley selfish and good for you for seeing it.  No contact seems hard, but ultimately it is far easier.  A very smart woman on this site (thanks Slappy!) said to me, let him miss you.  It‘s true!  Why water down his memory of you by keeping in touch as friends? He will think of you, and he will miss you.  But if he knows he can pick up the phone and call you anytime, he will take you for granted, as he seems to be doing now. Do you really want to hear about his new realtionships?  I sure don‘t. 

I don‘t think it is good for our self-esteem to keep in touch with those who reject us.  go have fun and forget this loser.  You are young and will likely have lots of men in your future...consider him a mistake and move on.

Hi honey, I‘m so sorry you are going through this, and I know this is an especially bad time of year for this to happen.  Reading your post made me feel a little ill.  I remember so well that awful feeling of the "shift"...the something-is-not-right-feeling, the distance, the lack of affection.  You actually described very well the very same symptoms that I observed when my ex was cheating on me.  Don‘t let him tell you that you are crazy, because you certainly are not.  Everything you describe points to him cheating, and with more than one woman.

I want to comment on what you said about having invested a lot of time on him.  While I think most of us can relate to what you are sying, I would urge you strongly not to think that way.  Some of the worst mistakes I have seen women make have stemmed from that way of thinking.  I have seen so many friends stay with guys for years longer than they should have and the end result is the same...the relationship ends, but now they have wasted an additional 4 or 5 years on the jerk, all because they wanted to salvage that initial "investment."  Sometimes you just have to call it a loss and move on.

You are not married to this man.  If he is already doing this after only 3 years when he should still be very enamored with you, what will he do when you have been with him 10 years?  I do not think he is salvageable.  His reaction (to balme you) is very typical of the serial cheater.   Have you thought about what you will do now?

Love to you!

DC honey, I‘m confused, and I wonder if you are confused yourself about this.  One minute you talk about this guy and how wonderful he is, and the next, you tell us something like this...that he knowingly enjoys hurting you and that he still thinks lovingly of the ex.  I hope you are doing the right thing by being with him, but I have to say, that statement makes me think you are not.  I hope you aren‘t upset by me pointing this out, but then again, maybe you want us to point it out.

You are a beautiful young woman!  I think you should wait for a guy who is more worthy of you instead of trying to make this silk purse out of a sow‘s ear.  Just my opinion, sweetie.

By the way, this song makes me feel a little ill...unless of course, I think of being the ex that my ex is thinking about lol!

As to cheating on 2 women who loved him and didn‘t know about one other, my ex said: "I thought what you both didn‘t know wouldn‘t hurt you...."

I am with you WP!

Oh Mollie, sweetie, what are you doing? I read your post and all I could thing of is why are you trying to justify his behavior?  I have quoted 3 parts of your post.  First, you say you don‘t want to act rashly.  While I understand this, I am also thinking about what you said about the investment in this man.  Like I said before, please do not feel you have to stay with him because you have "put in the time."  I assure you that given what it is obvious he is doing, it would not be at all rash to kick him to the curb. 

You are wasting your time being angry at the other women.  It is your boyfriend who owes you love and fidelity.  Unless a woman is your good friend, she owes you nothing.  Do not get me wrong---I believe there is a sidterhood of women and I would not try to take someone‘s boyfriend, but honestly, your anger is misplaced.  You should be furious at your boyfriend, not annoyed.   You don‘t know what he is telling these women.  As someone who has had taken men come on to me, I can tell you from experience that they talk a good game.  They say they no longer love their girlfirend, and that she doesn‘t understand them.  They say a lot of things that might make a woman believe they are about to get out.  I say this to wake you up.  Put your anger where it belongs...with your boyfriend.

Finally, it is not common for a taken man to text message his "friends" the kind of things that are transpiring here.  I have plenty of male friends and no, we do not text racy stuff to one another, and I certainly don‘t tell them I might have given them a disease!  If you are tyring to make this into nothing, which I sense you are, it isn‘t nothing.  It cetainly is not normal or meaningless...it is sleazy and deliberate. 

I hope you don‘t think I am being cruel.  I feel for you, I honestly do.  I am just concerned that you want so badly to continue this relationship that you have yourself believing that  this is no big deal or that your boyfriend was somehow seduced against his will when neither is the case.  He is going out of his way to cheat and lie to you about it.  When you caught him, he did not come clean like a man.  Instead, he blamed you for prying.  This is classic cheater behavior.

Again, I am sorry you are in this spot.  If  I sound harsh, it is because I think we come here needing someone to wake us up from our love coma.  I needed it too, and one of the things for which I am most grateful is that I told my cheating ex that no matter what, I knew he was lying and he could not make me think I was the crazy one.  It helps me that I did not play the fool for long.  Don‘t let him get away with this for too long, or I assure you, it will make you crazy thinking about it when it inevitably ends.

God bless, honey. 

Honey, I‘m so sorry...that is awful.  Sometimes though we need to have the cold hard truth in front of us to see it.  This will make you more savvy in your next relationship, but of course being more savvy also takes some of the glitter off the whole thing.  None of us will ever be the trusting souls we were before, but if being cautious and therby unable to fully immerse myself into a relationship saves me from some pain, I can accept the tradeoff.

Please, please read the red flags next time.  Any guy who puts up ads on a personal site is looking for more than a mindless diversion.  They are looking for sex.  You are not the first woman who wanted to believe the best of a man, but next time you cannot be so trusting.  If you are like me, I simply do not think I can take going through something like this again and if I smell a rat early on, I am out.  I will make that pact to you, and I hope you‘ll consider making it back to me.  We have to take care of each other :)

Please keep posting.  It helps so much.  Whatever you do, no contact!  He doesn‘t deserve to have you in his life.  He doesn‘t deserve to be able to count you as a friend.  Be strong...we are here for you!

This certainly is not a "friendship."  Phone sex is sex.   Your girlfriend is cheating on you and she is obviously addicted to this relationship.  If he did not come out to visit, and notice I say if, it was only due to logistical issues.  It will happen as you cannot possibly watch her 24 hours a day.

You asked her to give up the relationship and she refused.  Now you know where you stand...dead last.  Why would you marry someone who is already cheating on you?  You seem like you are making a lot of excuses for her. Why?

I know it is difficult to hear, but you must let go of her.  She is a cheater, and she has no respect for your feelings.  I actually think she may dump you if you do not let go of her first. My advice is change before you have to.  This woman is toxic.

Unfortunatley, I think he does not want her to know because he is still having a relationship with her also.  This just feels like he is being unfaithful to you.  I‘m so sorry you are going through this! 

Do not let him take advantage of you like this.  I would insist that he tell her, and since you cannot trust that he actually will, I think you should insist that you meet her.  My bet is he won‘t let you and should that happen, you should let him go because he is having an affair with her.  Actually, maybe you should just contact her yourself...after all, you have given him plenty of time.  I talked to my ex‘s other girlfriend (neither of us knew about the other) and boy, was it an eye-opener!  He didn‘t know she was contacting me so he didn‘t have time to cover his tracks.  If you call her, DO NOT tell him you are going to do so.

There are men who, unbelievably, actually carry on two marriage-like situations for a lifetime.  Do not let your life be like this.  It will never get easier to challenge him on this; infact, the longer he gets away with it, the more difficult it will be to ever get him to change.  Also, although it may not seem like it now, it will be much easier to leave now than in 5 years. 

Please keep us posted.  We are here for you! 

Red flag, honey!  Are you sure he is not married to her, too?  I‘m not kidding---that response is so very abnormal.

I try to repect people‘s privacy, and I am not a snoop.  Still, if I were in your situation, you better believe I would meet this woman, and i would do so "behind his back."  You say, "He trusts me enough to know that I would never go behind his back to tell his ex."  You seem to think that is a good thing--it‘s not.  I read that to say that he knows he can take advantage of you so he is.  I can‘t figure out if you are afraid of him or you just do not want to know for sure because then you will have to make a decision to leave or stay.

I‘m sorry if this sounds harsh.  I don‘t mean it to.  I just see his reaction as so obvious!  If he is not married to her also, he is definitely sleeping with her and doesn‘t want this ride to end.  I‘m so sorry.  Please keep us posted.

I am proud of you!  I know you haven‘t come to this easily. And yes, you are doing the right thing by telling her. Having a talk with his other girlfriend was a real eye-opener for me.

I hope you will stick around.  This site has hepled my healing like no other presence in my life.  When I am feeling weak, I come here. 

Please keep us posted! Love to you.

I respect your opinion Pandora, but I don‘t think he is lying about the sister.  That smells very fishy to me. Men almost never admit to something they haven‘t done. They especially don‘t give details, like the fact that he slept with her twice.  Also, it seems like her sister  may have led her to the bit about the girl and the cell because she herself is jealous.

Unfortunately, sometimes even sisters betray one another.  You don‘t seeem like this version of events is beyond your comprehension, so you must think both your sister and your boyfriend are capable of this.  Your sister may be jealous of you, and if she works with your boyfriend and they travel together, feelings may have developed.  I‘m sorry honey, I would keep my eyes open...keep posting here...it helps!

Oh honey, why are you talking to him?  It will be hard initially, but you need to do no contact.  He doesn‘t deserve your support, comfort and a continued relationship with you and you will prolong the time it takes to get over him by talking to him.  He deserves to miss you, and I‘m sure he will if you cut him off.  Don‘t have a big conversation about it---it is too painful and you will never be able to do it if you discuss it first--just stop answering.  This may seem out of your spere of ability but it isn‘t. None of us wanted to stop taking to our exes, but most of us have.  Promise me you‘ll consider it.

I‘m sorry you are having a bad day.  Curl up on the couch and watch something mindless on TV.  Try not to think about him.  His life with the new woman is obviously not great if he is calling you.  Don‘t romantacize his life, or him.  He is who he is and he won‘t change.

Love to you. 

Wow.  I thought I had heard every rendition of the selfish bastard story but I have to say honey, this guy takes the cake!  I can‘t believe he did all this while on the cruise with you!  I‘m sorry you had to endure such traumatic experiences but I have to tell you that I‘m really enjoying reading about them!  Keep it coming!

I am so sorry you are going through this.  I wish I could give you a big hug, I honestly do. I need to clarify something:  my understanding of your post is that your husband is telling you he no longer loves you and your relationship is over but that he wants to remain in the house.  Is that the current status?  Honey, you cannot live like this.  You know he is having an affair.  I don‘t need to tell you that.  Everything you wrote points to it.  And he is doing it in your bed!  You would have noticed a condom from years back.  He is a disrepectful lying cheater.  He cheated before and you not only gave him another chance, but accepted the fruits of his affair.  He should be kissing your ass!  Instead, he has betrayed you again.  Do not waste another 11 years of your life with this man.  He is not worthy of you.

You must face this: the relationship is over.  When a man acts the way this one is acting, he is finished with the relationship.  Nothing you do or say will change that.  Please focus on yourself, and your children.  Make him move out. Don‘t wait.  Let him be her problem!  I knew my ex was cheating.  I could not sleep.  I could not smile.  Now he has been out of my life for 7 months, and yes, sometimes I still miss him.  But I can sleep again, and when I feel that anxiety creep into my stomach when I think of something he did, I breathe deeply and remind myself that it is not my problem anymore. I am not trying to compare my situation with yours, as I know that the length of time you have been with him and the fact that you have children together make it extra hard to leave.  I can only tell you that if you dust this roach, your life will get better.  It won‘t happen overnight, but in a year you will look back and be so happy he is gone.  I promise.

You will go on to have a happy life and he will always want more, more, more, and never be content with what is right in front of him.  He had a sweet wife an family and he blew it.  You don‘t need a roomate.  The sooner you send him packing, the sooner you can re-establish your self-esteem and begin to heal.

Please, please get rid of this blood-sucking vampire.  Let us know how you are...posting here really helps.  We are all here for you!

Love to you.

Carliss, I hope you are really through with him as he will continue to betray you if you let him in your life.  Please, for your sanity and well-being, do not waste another minute on this man!  That means not talking to him when he calls, which he will.  He wants it all.  Don‘t let him do that to you.

Really look at those text messages from the other woman and think about what they say.  He is obviously not making her life a picnic either...she refers to  him as no good, swears at him, indicates that he is keeping her waiting, is so desperate for more than the sporadic contact he is giving her that she offers to pay to turn his phone back on and says she is only giving him one more chance, an indicator that he has already disappointed her.  Let them have each other!  He is already making her miserable.

You asked how you recover from this.  Time is an amazing thing, as is distance.  You need to completely cut off all contact with him.  You will never get the answers you want from him.  It has helped me tremendously to come here and read and post.  I helps me know that I am not alone, and when I read about alousy cheater like yours and the pain you are going through, it helps me remember that I am doing the right thing by not having any contact with the ex.

You will feel better!  But first you need to cut out the cancer.  He is toxic.  No contact, sweetie!

You are not alone...we are here for you!  I know you are devestated but you need to plan an exit strategy.  You say you have no where to go, but you cannot think that way.  Do you have any friends or family you could stay with while you go throught the process of getting him to pay child support?  What about a shelter while you get on your feet?  I am concerned that you say he hits you when you confront him with this.  It is time to get out!  If you don‘t feel you can justify doing it for you, do it for your children.  They deserve so much better.  So do you.

He is chipping away at your self-esteem daily.  The only thing you have done wrong is to believe what he says about you.  He is a miserable, cheating coward.  I will pray that you find the means and courage to leave him.  In the meantime, please come here and let us know how you are doing.

Hi Momo, welcome home!  Your trip sounded amazing...I am so envious.  It is miserably cold here and I have been craving a nice warm vacation.  You are inspiring me to start saving up for one.  Since I‘m not seeing anyone I can put the money I would apparently need to be spending on brazilian waxes (I hope you saw the hairless women thread so you know what I‘m talking about) toward it...I guess sometimes being single is a plus! :)

I feel sad for what you are doing to yourself.  I remember reading your original posts because you started writing shortly after my ex and I ended and because I found your avatar very telling and very sad.  I think about how much better I am feeling about myself and seeing you in the same, if not a worse place, makes me very sad for you.  If that sounds judgmental or unsupportive to anyone, I do not mean to sound that way.  It is just frustrating to see someone continue to do this to themselves day after day.  You give such strong advice to thers---can you not take any of it yourself?  When I first read your posts on here about 6 months ago, you had only been with him 6 months.  I remember thinking that your relationship with him sounded incredibly toxic, and was wondering why you felt such a strong pull after such a short time, and why after such a short time, you were adamant that you could not let go.  Now things seem to have only gotten worse.  How can you let this go on?

I do not mean to sound cruel by saying this, but relationships like the one you are in do not last.  Ever. Why are you trying so hard to hang onto this bitter twisted wreck of a relationship?  I am surprised he hasn‘t ended it either.  You both must have severe co-dependency issues and a lust for drama.  It‘s not healthy!  I hope you are in counseling.  Again, I am not trying to be cruel. I am genuinely concerened for you.

Elaine, I am so sorry you are going through this.  There will probably contuinue to be moments when you will realize he lied to you about his wherebouts on certain days months ago or remember things that didn‘t make sense then but suddenly do.  You will have questions for a long time.  It is unfair for your husband to think you can move on without answers, and without voicing your distrust for a while.  Would he be able to just "get over it" if you slept with someone else?  I doubt it.  There are women here who have rebuilt their marriages after finding out that their husband had an affair, but I don‘t think there is anyone who did it without counseling.  In my opinion, a betrayal of this magnitude is difficult, if not impossible, to recover from without serious hard work and couples therapy.  If your husband refuses to go, you may have your answer as to whether your marriage can be saved.

In the meantime, keep coming here and posting, and read posts from others who are in your same situation.  Respond to someone else‘s post when you get to the point where you feel like you have the energy to do so.  It really helps!

Take care, and let me know how you‘re doing.  You will find great support here.

Hi and welcome!

He sounds hideous!  I hope you are free of him now.  I‘m sure he will continue to cheat once his wife gets here...guys that decietful don‘t ever stop.  Did he get married to a woman from another country while dating you?  How did you find out?

Keep posting...it will help you heal.

lorrie--just wanted you to know I am thinking of you and sending you love and good thoughts. Things are going to be all uphill from here!

I admire you.

Your post made me so sad. When you say he has cheated 4 times in 4 years, was it 4 different incidents or 4 different women for a period of time?  To say your marriage is perfect except for the cheating made me think of the expression, "aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"  I feel so bad for you, but I also feel like you are not really facing this.  When I found out my ex had led a double life, I really felt like our relationship had not been real.  I felt this way despite the fact that from all appearances, he treated me like a queen.  However, once I found out that he had been with someone else, I deeply questioned how he felt about me and whether a single moment had been genuine.  Honestly honey, you should be wondering that too.  This man has cheated on you 4 times in as many years.  To me, that does not even represent trying to control oneself.  He is totally taking advantage of you.  You say he loves you, but a man who loves you does not hurt you like this.

None of us wanted to leave.  We all loved our cheaters, and many of us still struggle with what is left of that love.  You have to love yourself more.  How can you and the children live like this?  You deserve better.  I hope you find the strength to leave....I‘ll be praying that you do.

Take care and keep us updated.  You are not alone!  We are here for you.

Hi and welcome honey!  I am so sorry you are going through this.  This man sounds like the classic narcissistic abuser.  The first step in getting away from someone like this is to realize who you are dealing with.  Go to the "Read" section and read bout abusers and narcissists...I promise you, it will help. 

How cruel of him to come back into your life only to abandon you again.  Try not to romantacize this relationship, but rather see him for who he is.  When someone comes in and out of your life and leaves prematurely, it is easy to retain the impression that things were great, and remember the relationship when it was new.  In reality, love means sticking around.  A man capable of love does not disapear from your life suddenly or create fictions to break up with you. 

Losing your family undoubtedly has a great deal to do with the immense sense of loss you are feeling.  In reality, you haven‘t lost much in him.  He is a volatile, abusive person.  The way he ends things says volumes about him.  Try to remember that when you are getting nostalgic about the relationship.

It really helps to write down the way that you are feeling right now.  Make a list of everything bad he has ever done to you and all his worst traits.  Read it over and over until you do not remember why he ever appealed to you.  My guess is you will need this list in the future, because it is likely he will call you again...it is his pattern.

When I read your post, I thought of this great article I read on here.  I am going to post it for you below.  Please read it---I thought of you immediatley and I think it will help you understand you situation better.

Please keep coming here and posting.  You are not alone!

Thanks lorrie! I wish I had some exciting news to report...I really have been laying low.  I hate to admit that I am still feeling the aftershock of my relationship with the ex even though we haven‘t spoken in 8 months.  I think I‘m scared that if I go out too much I might meet a new man...and that he‘ll break my heart too.  I have come to see that men have brought me far more pain than joy.  Why do I still want one then?  Ugh...sorry to be such a downer on a Friday afternoon.

As for why you don‘t see me around more, believe me, if I had my way, I would be here all the time.  I only have a computer at work, so I have to sneak on during the day.  My employers are really nervy....actually expecting me to work while I‘m here LOL.  I am working on getting a computer at home.  I never cared about having one before, but coming on this site keeps me sane.  Tonight of course, though, I have a date with my friend the TV, as I will be watching that 20/20 on revenge...thanks for the tip! 

love you all.

Hi everyone---this is my idea of a good strong break-up anthem.  I don‘t like the sad ones...I like the "I will Survive" type tunes that remind me of what I already know: karma is sweet :)

I‘ll Take You Back (Brad Paisley)

When a freight train jumps off a track
And rolls down my road
And its summer time in Texas
And they‘re playing in the snow
When politicians everywhere stop telling lies
And only state the facts
Right then, that‘s when
I‘ll take you back

Let‘s say I get bucked off a bull and fall and hit my head
And then I get amnesia and forget the things you said
I lose my better judgement and I take up smoking crack
Right then, that‘s when
I‘ll take you back

Chorus
Go on keep trying
Come on keep calling
You know I like it
When you come crawling
Its like music
To hear you bawling
Waa, waa, waa, waa, waa

When Donald Trump takes a part time job parking cars
When Clint Eastwood does ballet in a big pink leotard
And a donkey wins the Derby as he takes his victory lap
Right then, that‘s when
I‘ll take you back

Repeat chorus

The day that old morning sun rises in the west
And they pass a law in L.A. banning artificial breasts
When cars can run on water, gasoline and oil ain‘t worth jack
Right then, that‘s when
I‘ll take you back

Repeat chorus

Its like music
To hear you balling
Waa, waa, waa, waa, waa

I think it is possible to rebuild a relationship after cheating but having it be better than ever?  I wish I could tell you that an affair could ever "bring someone closer."  I just don‘t believe that.  Once someone has inflicted such a betrayal, it is very hard for the relationship to ever be the same.  Someone once told me that getting over cheating is like mending a broken china cup...it may look as good as new, but there is a fault line that wasn‘t there before and it is much more susceptible to being broken than before.

There are women on this site who are working very hard to reconstruct their marriages after an affair.  I think they would all say that it has been very hard, and only worth doing if the cheater is truly sorry and willing to go to counseling.  Will he go to counseling with you?  I think that if he doesn‘t want to go to counseling, you have your answer.

Take care and keep posting here, wahtever you decide to do.  I hope that whatever decision you make, it turns out well and you are happy again.

I am always shocked at how many women start their posts saying what a great relationship they have and then go on to give clear evidence of cheating.  I point this out to you not to be cruel but to make sure you are looking at your relationship realistically.  You don‘t have the "best relationship."  What you do have is a man who has repeatedly lied to you and decieved you.  Please get angry and get aware.  He is taking advantage of what is your obvious goodness and desire to look at the sunny side of things.

I am very sorry he is doing this to you.  Don‘t let him!  Please keep us updated.  Love to you.

Wow, so disrespectful and so stupid.  That is the kind of story that will spread like wild-fire, and when Ms.-Soon-To- Be-Married-to-Strap-On finds out that guy is toast.  And, yes, I think it is definitely cheating.

It is stories like that one that make me 1) scared to death to get married and 2) glad that I have four brothers who will be mandatory guests at whatever bachelor party any possible fiance of mine would have.

PB--Was anyone there who would tell the future wife?  I‘m pretty sure it‘s just a matter of time until she finds out.

I am going to go with a kind but firm "open your eyes." If you don‘t use condoms, he is obviously planning to use them with someone else.  You aren‘t paranoid.  Condoms simply aren‘t an item with multiple uses. 

I‘m sorry you are going through this!  Don‘t tell him you know anything if you feel the need to look further. Once he knows you are onto him, he will only cover his tracks better.  Gather more evidence if you must, but honestly, do you need to know more?  He is obviously cheating, and you don‘t need that in your life.

Oh yeah, I‘m sure she‘ll think it‘s a riot.  You are expecting a lot from a woman if you expect her to laugh at that.

Guys don‘t always abide by the stay quiet rule.  My brother went to a bachelor party where the groom-to-be performed oral sex on one of the strippers.  Somebody spilled to the bride-to-be‘s twin sister, who then told her twin.  I guess there was even a videotape commemorating the blessed event that the bride-to-be eventually saw...They still got married, but it was pretty touch and go for a few days, and honestly, I think she only went through with it because she didn‘t have the stomach to cancel it all so close to the wedding.

Why would it be any different if you used a condom during your period?  I assume you say no because it‘s messy and it‘s probably even messier with a condom added in.  But you won‘t know if that‘s his reason unless you wait and say no, I have my period.  If he whips out a condom, you are in luck.  But i don‘t think that‘s what‘s happening.

As for knowing that you know his passwaords, men are lazy.  They don‘t think everything through the way women do.  Hence this board and the thousands of stories here.  Most men get sloppy and get caught.

Honey, why are you letting him have it all?  Kick him out!  So, he is using your place as a closet and then goes and sleeps at her house??  I would be so livid after finding him with another woman that I would never talk to him again, except maybe to arrange visitation.  He is totally taking advantage of you.  Put his stuff in gargage bags and and put it on the porch.  Call and tell him that if it is not gone by the end of the day you are moving it to the curb for the gargage man. 

Wow, what a slimey loser he is.  I really think that even the worst guys on this site would be scared to show their ugly mug at your door after pulling a stunt like that.  Instead, he spends the night with her, and then has the nerve to waltz in cavalierly and change at your place?  Wow, extreme nerve.  Please promise me you will end this abusive relationship today.  Please come back and update us!  We will help you through this.

Honey, you don‘t need to collect any more information, you need to leave him or confront him.  You are focusing on the wrong issue here....who cares about telling this other woman?  You know his intent.  He is ready to sleep with someone else.  Are you going to let him?  If you still want him, I suggest you call off this little trip of his and tell him you know.  Then I would insist that you both start marriage counseling immediatley.  If he refuses or doesn‘t take responsibility for what he was about to do, there is no salvaging the relationship.  (There may be no salvaging it anyway, but if he is not really sorry and doesn‘t take any responsibility for his actions, then there definitley is no chance of redeeming it.)

If you intend instead to end the relationship, let him go on the trip and once he has left the house, call the woman, tell her who you are and tell her that you don‘t blame her but just wanted to inform her that he is a lying cheater. At least you will have ruined his trip. Then serve him with papers when he comes back. 

What are you planning to do? I am just conmcerned that you seem to be avoiding the real issue at hand...that your husband would and will cheat if given the opportunity and is going to some lengths to deceive you.  If he doesn‘t carry through with it this time, which would only be because the  women backed out, he will in time find someone else and complete his mission.  

Are so focused on telling her because you will then be circumventing the cheating and will have an excuse to stay and pretend this never happened?  Unfortunately that won‘t work.  You can‘t follow him every minute of the day.  Once he has made up his mind to do this, he will find a way.

Please let us know what you are thinking and keep us posted.

lorraine, don‘t apologize...your post was perfect and very astute.  Sometimes we all need a little "tough love."  Following along the tough love vein, Shoegirl, sweetheart, what are you doing?  Would you really want to marry a guy who is showing you that he is a lying cheater even before you walk down the aisle?  Thank God you found out now!  You are focusing on the wrong issue.  Why demean yourself further?  He is just a boyfriend, not a husband.  You don‘t have kids with this loser.  Count yourself lucky and get out now.  To quote Oprah, when a man shows you who he is, believe him.  What more does he need to show you?  He has been deceiving you and when confronted, he protected the other woman, not you. 

When a man acts this way, the relationship is already over.  You can sit around and wait for him to dump you, which could take another year of your life away, or you can leave with dignity now.  Either way, the result is the same...it will be over.  The only difference will be how you feel about yourself at the end, and believe me, that‘s a big difference.

Love to you.

Hey Giggles, I‘m sorry he ended up being such a loser.  I‘m glad you got some answers, but from here on out, stay away from his Myspace page.  It makes it much more difficult to move on if you think he is having some imaginary great life that he isn‘t actually having.....

Trust me...he won‘t be skipping through a field of daisies.  That line about the bill paying is very telling.  He will soon be tired of her demands.  Don‘t be surprised if he starts calling you again, and I hope you ignore him. He really isn‘t worth your time honey.

Silence is not always a sign of guilt.  Several years ago, I had been dating a guy for a few months when I recieved a message on my phone from his girlfriend, a woman I had no idea existed.  I didn‘t call her back because I didn‘t want to get further emeshed in their drama.  I did, however, give him an earful and tell him I didn‘t appreciate the disrespect he was showing both of us.

Similarly, a close friend recently hooked up with a guy at an out of town conference.  He wore no ring and kept whining about how his busy work life left him no time for a personal life.  There were other people from his office at the conference and he was kissing her in front of them.  When she got home, she e-mailed him and told him she had fun with him.  Shortly afterward, she received an anonymous e-mail telling her he was married.  She couldn‘t believe it.  She then confirmed it by exchanging e-mails with one of his friends from the conference, who apologized for not telling her the guy was married in time for her to avoid hooking up with him.   She did not write back to the anonymous sender, but she did write an e-mail to the cheater letting him know what she thought of him.

You really can‘t assume this woman knew anything.  Your boyfriend sounds like he went to some lengths to cover his tracks...my guess is he was not forthcoming with her either.  She probabaly did not write back because she dealt with him directly or he got to her first and convinced her he is done with you or that you are a crazy ex.

Every time this has happened to me,  I have found out later that the guy had a girlfriend.  He will call again--they always do--but I would beware.  It will continue like this, and if you give him another chance, you may actually get to really like this guy at some point. If he is doing this at the beginning, I promise you, it won‘t change, and at some point you will likely get a little call from a number you don‘t recognize and will be introduced to cheater‘s girlfriend.  Have been there. Several times.

How else would you possible explain the question in the forum?  A woman‘s intuition is rarely, if ever, wrong about things like this.  You certainly would not be the first smart woman to be played by a cheater.  It is much easier than you would think for him to hide this from you, especially if he travels a lot.  Be careful.  I have a very bad feeling about this.

My ex looked me straight in the eye and lied repeatedly about the existence of his other relationship....I eventually had to hear about it from the woman herself.

I‘m sorry you are going through this.  keep us posted!

Oh Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, you must like it here or you would not keep coming back.  Have you ever considered using your powers for good instead of evil?  You actually strike me as being fairly, okay, even very, intelligent and I‘m sure you are capable of giving insightful advice.  You must have a good heart hidden by all the sly remarks because you finally did the right thing and gave your ex her freedom...and as I recall, were actually quite torn up about it, too.  As one of the few here who gets a kick out of you and some of--not all of--your posts, I‘m sorry that you don‘t use your sense of humor to a better end. 

I‘m a lot older than you, and a fellow Yankee, so you really should listen to me: )

Hey Momo---missed you!  I don‘t think it‘s strange at all. When I took  my ex back, I had steeled myself up for him doing it again (which he did, and it ended that time for good).  I wasn‘t devestated like I was the first time because part of me just couldn‘t let myself be that vulnerable with him again.  When it happened again, I realized I hadn‘t been enjoying the relationship fully anyway, as I had been waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Betrayal of this magnatude is very hard to get over, even when the man really wants you to, and even when he is being really good.  Honestly, you‘d be abnormal not to be feeling this way.  It is going to take time and really, honey, it hasn‘t been that long.  Your numbness is likely a protective mechanism.

I am so glad that he is doing all he can to make this up to you.  You will be back where you were, but don‘t rush yourself.  I for one would like to seee him kissing your ass for many more days to come!

Unbelievable!  Have you talked to cakeman about this yet?  Can‘t wait to hear his lame ass excuse.  And you were just saying something nice about him on another thread....damn, just like a man, they always make us want to take back anything nice as soon as we say it.

Hopefully you have a good lawyer.  I don‘t know though.  I wasn‘t too impressed with the time he told you that you had to be at the courthouse in 10 minutes for your hearing...if he doesn‘t help you on this, maybe it is time to switch to a real shark.

Hi WP!  I‘ll reply, sweetie.  I know how hard this is for you, and it is always hard for me.  My sense of you is that you are a warmhearted person with a very forgiving nature.  That‘s a good thing, but it has its negatives too.  You are already experiencing the ramifications of letting him back into your life, and the closer you get, the more deeply you‘ll experience it.  Suddenly the balance of power can shift, and you find yourself in his grip again, waiting for his calls, wondering what he‘s doing when he‘s not calling....ugh it is the worst!

When my latest ex and I ended, he asked if he could call me "from time to time."  I was so hurt that I had taken him back only to have him betray me again that I said what‘s the point? and shut him down.  For a long time I regretted doing so, and wished that he would call. He hasn‘t and I haven‘t.  It has been 9 months.  At first I was really saddened by the lack of contact, but now I have come to realize that contact is a very risky thing.  I am much more honest with myself now than I have been in the past, largely because of this site.  I‘ve always told myself with past exes, what is the harm of contact?  I now know that if I were to allow myself to be in contact with him again, it is likely that it could lead to forgiveness and that forgiveness could lead to getting back together.  Do you want to live the rest, or any part of, your life with a lying cheater?  I know you don‘t.

It is really painful to tell someone you love or once loved that you no longer want contact.  I wouldn‘t do it in a phone call.  I‘d either just stop answering or text him or e-mail him and tell him you forgive him and are sorry he is going through a bad time, but that you can‘t be there for him.

It‘s just like going through it all over again, isn‘t it?  So hard.  I know it feels bad now but you will be better again soon.  My love to you. 

When you say you are having a hard time dealing with the memory, what do you mean?  Do you mean the memory of finding out?  When did this happen?  If you tell your story, we may be better able to understand what you are feeling.

It is incredibly difficult to forgive someone for this kind of deep betrayal. It will take a lot of time to get the relationship back to normal, if you are able to do so at all.   Are you in counseling together? 

Don‘t be so hard on yourself.  This would not be easy for anyone.  Take care and keep posting! 

Hi WP!  Volume baby, volume.  You are an unusual woman and you are probably going to have to kiss a lot of  frogs before you find your prince.  Don‘t let it frustrate you, just do what you are doing now:  if he shows you who he is in the beginning, like this toad did, don‘t ignore it.  Move on.

I have not yet tried internet dating (I‘m also thinking about it!), but one of my best friends is a big internet dater. Her biggest pitfall is that she talks to guys for weeks on end, often for hours at a time, before meeting them.  By the time she meets them, the meeting is fraught with false expectation.  Even if you look like Cindy Crawford, if  the guy you are speaking with loves Christie Brinkley, he will build up the fantasy over multiple conversations that Christie is who he‘ll be meeting.  Sounds idiotic, but I swear it‘s true.  I keep telling her that she should meet very quickly with a potential date and keep the fantasy to a minimum. This is sometimes easier said than done.  You‘d be surprised how many men on these sites want to talk and talk and might never actually make a date unless you push it.  Okay, that‘s my advice on internet dating...please let me know how it goes.

Oh, the other thing I will tell you that I know you probably don‘t need to hear since you seem very savvy, is that 2 men (my brother and a friend)  told me that they were dating women from match.com and very early on the woman announced she was going off match.  In both cases, I noticed that while the men seemed initially flattered, they both broke it off with these women shortly after her pronouncement. Internet dating is kind of strange in that you know that the other person is still on the site and probably looking, even while you‘re dating.  I guess in short I am saying that I wouldn‘t let myself get too attached or remove my profile until they did. 

I‘m glad you‘re back...missed you!

Beth, why are you hesitating, honey?  Call the police and file for a restraining order.  Start protecting yourself.  And promise me you will never be alone with this man again.  He sounds terribly dangerous. 

It doesn‘t matter that this began with consent.  He has now crossed over into stalking and threats.  I assure you the cops will be on your side.  Please, go today.

Ignore him, please.  Patrick, go to your room.

At this point, I think you don‘t have much of a choice but to accept it.  If she won‘t go to counseling and says her feelings have changed, there doesn‘t seem to be much room for improvement.  I would sit down with her and calmly tell her you know she has met someone and ask her if she is certain this is worth ending your relationship over.  Tell her you love her, that you understand why she had the affair and that you want to go back to counseling.  I personally don‘t know why you wouldn‘t tell her you know about the affair.  Why would it matter at this point?  Things can‘t really get worse.

If she persists in telling you she wants out, let her go.  Cut off contact and let her miss you.  Maybe she‘ll come back and maybe she won‘t.  Maybe she‘ll come back and you will no longer want her. 

You had an affair and acknowledged that it was wrong.  She should have been honest with you if she could not forgive you--at least you could have gone to counseling when it could have helped.  If her way with dealing with the problems in your marriage was to begin an affair, she is immature and possibly using your prior infidelity as an excuse for getting out.

I‘m sorry you are going through this.  Keep posting here and let us know how you‘re doing.

Beth, I hope it is telling you something that everyone is giving you the same advice...this is not your fault.  Do not ever speak to this man again, even to tell him not to talk to you.  Go and fill out the papers for a restraining order.  It is easy.  If you go get the papers and private message me, I will talk you through it.

If you don‘t want to involve the police (although I think you should), go see a lawyer and ask if for a few hundred dollars (the best money you will ever spend) he or she will write a letter or place a call telling this guy if he doesn‘t stop contacting you, you are going to file charges and his wife and family will find out.  I think you will be surprised how quickly this would all stop if you involved the police or a lawyer. 

Please do something soon!  I can tell you from experience that the "watery grave" comment would get you a restraining order from a court and a menacing charge from a DA.  You have power.  Please use it.

Why should ths guy change anything?  He has it all. Most men hate conflict, so if you continue to have sex with him, he will never leave her, even if he is supposedly unhappy there. (Note I said supposedly---you have to take everything he says to you with a grain of salt since he is after all, still living with her)  If you stop seeing him and having contact with him, he might miss you and might then break it off.  If you keep up the status quo, you will always be the other woman and the sounding board.  End it now!  If he comes back crawling and says he has moved out, then you will have a decision to make. 

I am giving you this advice because I sense you want this relationship to continue, but my real advice to you would be to stop talking to him and never look back.  He is still betraying this woman, whether you want to see it that way or not.  He will very likely do the same to you in the future.  You are young...so very many fish in the sea.  Why accept so much less than you deserve?

Why would you want a guy who treats his girlfriend (her) and his so-called "best friend" (you? sorry but that is a line if ever I‘ve heard one) this way?  This guy is manipulating you with all this "love" talk.  If he really loved you, he would be with you.  It‘s pretty simple.

You are so young and will have so many choices to make in the future about how you are going to let men treat you.  Start now.  Make the decision to love yourself.  And in the future, if you think there is another girl in the guy‘s life, don‘t start sleeping with him.  Move on. Things like this always end badly.

Good luck to you.  Keep us posted.

Maybe he is worried about leaving "proof"...maybe he is cheating with someone who has joked or threatened about providing proof to you in the form of pubic hair he has left behind.  I know it sounds far-fetched, but keep in mind that many rapists have been known to shave their pubic hair to avoid leaving DNA at a scene.

I may sound paranoid, but cheaters are crafty!

Wow, honey, isn‘t it funny what a difference a year can make....what happened to the soulmate thing?  I am consistently taken aback by the fact that men leave great women and their children for....what?  Something "new" that lasts a few months?

I know you don‘t want him back, but I hope you get some enjoyment out of this turn of events.  I certainly do. Love to you, and big hugs.

I got rid of everything...pictures, e-mails,mementos.  So far I don‘t regret it!

Dear Rhi, I can‘t begin to thank you for all your heartfelt advice over the last two years.  Even though I don‘t have time to post as often as I‘d like, I come here every few days to read and get grounded.  You are a source of wisdom and comfort to me daily, even if you are writing to someone else.  I will pray that your sadness dissipates soon and that you will come back, at least to visit and let us know how you are. Love and kisses---Sass

I would suggest contacting her and being nice and non-accusatory...simply introduce yourself as "x‘s girlfriend"  and ask what is going on. 

I was contacted by my long distance boyfriend‘s other long distance girlfriend, whom I had no idea existed.  She was a bit uppity and assumed it was a one night stand and that I knew about her (I believe her exact words were "please stop fucking my boyfriend"), until I told her I had been seeing him for 8 months and that he lied and said they had broken up the year before.  At that point, her whole tone changed and we had a long talk and I told her everything. 

My point is that you never know what your lowlife boyfriend is telling her.  She may really not know about you, or if she does, he may be telling her that you are on the skids and he will be ending it with you soon.  In fact, after reading the stories on here for almost 2 years, I‘d be shocked if he wasn‘t saying that.  It is extremely rare that a guy tells the other woman that he loves and respects his wife/girlfriend and just wants a fling...most of the time they lay on the misunderstood man stuff pretty thick and do all they can to lure her in.

Maybe you should not actually go out of town and follow him instead.  Follow your insticts...they will rarely lead you astray. 

Three years of lying to you over and over again, lying to her over and over again...wow, I don‘t think I could, or would even want to try, to get over a betrayal of this magnitude.  I cannot imagine that he won‘t do this again...he obviously has very deep character flaws to be able to carry on that type of affair for that long.

Please update us...what‘s going on now?

Honey, you did not do this.  It is not your fault.  He betrayed you, and you have every right to be angry...you would be abnormal if you were not.  Please, go and seek counseling, whether you choose to stay with him or not.  You seem so bent on making this your fault, and I am wondering why.

It has only been three months.  Give yourself a break!

Honey, you are so young.  Go and learn about yourself and what you like to do.  Learn to enjoy your own good company and foster close friendships with other women. Don‘t worry about your boyfriend...he may or not be in your life in 5 years, but the friends you make will.  I know this is not what you want to hear, but it‘s really the best advice I can give you.  I have been through a lot of boyfriends.  Sadly, they come and go, but your family and friends...they are forever. 

The fringe benefit in not focusing on a man is that you are suddenly perceived as mysterious and exciting, instead of needy.  Go do your own thing and your boyfriend will very likely have renewed interest in the relationship.  And if he doesn‘t, you‘ll be too busy to care.

Love to you!

Hi sweetheart...welcome to womansavers!  This site literally saved my sanity.  I, like you, believe God led me here.  I too believed at the time that I was losing the love of my life.  It has been almost a year of no contact for me, and while I was devestated at the time, I now don‘t even think about him every day and I certainly don‘t feel sad over him, except on very rare occassions when I am in pity mode.  The passing of time has made me see that not only was he not the love of my life, but we really weren‘t very well-suited at all.  Give yourself time and check in with us often...when you reach the point where you see he wasn‘t "the one," let me know, as I love being told I was right : )

Keep posting and stay strong.  When you feel weak, come here and read.  Eventually you will learn so much about yourself and abusive relationships that you will feel blessed that you got out when you did.

Your ex is an abuser.  They are always sorry when we are leaving, and they never change.  If you go back you could end up losing your life.  I think you know that I‘m not being melodramatic.

Love to you!

Yes, Happy Mother‘s Day to all my beautiful friends  at womansavers!   Big hugs to everyone....

Love, Sass

Very cute new do Busty.  You are adorable!

Love this post, lorrie... I think especially when the breakup is new, and we are suffering, we all want to know, will he come crawling back? 

Mine was a crummy long distance ex-boyfriend, not a husband.  No, he did not immediately ask me to remain in his life, as he had his other girlfriend living there by the time his double life caught up with him.  He did come begging back about four months later and, my God what the hell was I thinking, I started seeing him again.  Then he started cheating again, but this time I‘m pretty sure it was with someone new.  I didn‘t stick around to find out details...all the signs were there and I let it go that time.  I am coming up on one full year of no contact in June, and, for anyone who is wondering about their situation, "Should I call him/e-mail him/give him the time of day?," I would tell you please don‘t do it.  It feels pretty empowering to do the no contact thing, and he does not deserve you in his life...let him think about what he did.  Let him forever miss your beautiful presence!

I do admit, it makes me mad thinking about the betrayal even now! But at least when I think of it now, I feel angry, not hurt.

I have been reading these bords for two years and your story is one of the saddest and most heartbreaking I‘ve seen. I am so sorry.  Your ex is a cowardly selfish pig.  While I understand the desire to call him and show him your rage, I would say that you will feel better if you don‘t do it.  Ignore him, and let him think you have forgotten all baout him.  Believe me, his life with her won‘t be any picnic.  These guys aren‘t any different with the new woman.  They are always dissatisfied and always searching for more. 

I am so sorry that this happened to you. It will get better!  Two years is not very long when you are talking about the kind of betrayal you have experienced.   Just keep coming on here and reading and posting.  We are here for you!  You should post your story in the ‘general‘ section as more people will see it there.

Love to you!

Wow, I am so proud of you!  You sound so strong!  It does get better with time, and posting and reading here really helps.  Please post more details when you have a chance.  How long had the affair been going on?  How did you find out, and how did he react?

You will have hard days mixed in with the strong ones.  Don‘t let the weak days fool you...you are doing the right thing.  I‘m sure he will try to contact you, and will try to come back.  Nothing will make him feel less in control and more miserable than if you just don‘t answer his calls.  Really, there is no greater burn out there!

Take care, honey, and welcome.  We are here for you!  please come back and let us know how you are. 

honey, why are you letting him treat you this way?  Listen to what he is saying...he is telling you he does not think of you as a girlfriend but he still wants you in his life.  He does not introduce you to those who are important to him.  Essentially, he is saying he does not want to commit to you in any way but would still like to sleep with you whenver he wants.  If that is okay with you, I‘m sure he is happy to continue the arrangment as long as you plan to let him.

I‘m sorry if I sound harsh, but I think you need a bit of a reality check.  How can any of his behavior surprise you given what he is saying to you?  I don‘t worry about his self-esteem--in fact, I don‘t care what he is thinking at all--but I am concerned about yours.  He is absolutley treating you poorly but you are letting him.  Please shut this guy off.  He will never change and if you remain in his life, I guarantee he will soon be telling you about his new girlfriend.  I know you like him, but this relationship will do nothing but zap you of your self-esteem.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are.

I am not even going to address the fact that his mother still does his laundry, but I am obviously with everyone else on that one.  Not good.  Not good at all.

I‘m with ME.  I am always surprised at how much anger is directed at the other woman.  I have been cheated on by boyfiends in the past and honestly have never even considered the other woman.  But in those cases, I also did not stay.  I guess if you choose to stay, it is a lot easier to hate the OW than the man you love, the one who promised to be faithful to you, to love you , honor you, etc., and the one you have to then spend the rest of your life with.  

Unfortunately, the other woman owes you nothing.  And as someone who has been lied to by several men who pretended not to be in a serious relationship, I can tell you that men will say anything when they want to lure a woman in.  Yes, these women may have known your men were married, but in many cases the man says, I am done with her, I love you, she doesn‘t understand me like you do, etc.  While she should walk away, she has not made you any promises.  I agree with ME and TOW that the anger should be placed on the man who betrayed you.

Don‘t feel stupid...he sounds like a good liar.  I would say though that in the future, don‘t make too many concessions for a guy‘s strange behavior.  If something seems strange to you now in hindsight, there is probably a good chance it seemed a bit strange to you at the time.  You only go together once a month because of his work schedule?  He invited you to his house in the beginning but then stopped doing so?  These are pretty big red flags.  One of my friends told me that if I wasn‘t meeting a man‘s friends and regularly going to his house in the first month or so, I should cut things off, and actually, I think that‘s good advice.  When something is right, there just aren‘t all these strange quirky signs. 

I‘m sorry this happened to you.  Good job ferreting out the truth!

Hi Uber, I think I would start with hiring a PI to do some research on her...find out if she really lives in the SE.  I think if you give them his information and tell them it‘s his wife, they should be able to track her pretty easily.  They can run checks pretty cheaply...probably won‘t cost you more than $75, and well worth it if you ask me.  I think you would do better calling a PI from the phone book than using an on-line service.

I sense that you are a lot like me...very independent and you sometimes give a guy his space and privacy to your own detriment.  I agree with Busty that you should further investigate this marriage.  I know people stay married and don‘t consider themselves married, but honestly, I don‘t know how.  The ambiguity of that situation would drive me nuts.

As to the out of state move...I would visit and often.  Do not accept any excuses as to why it is not a good time.  My ex let me visit initially...before his other girlfriend moved in.  After that, he always had excuses as to why he had too come see me.  I loved the idea of a long distance relationship...it really fit with my independent nature.  But sadly, the truth of it is that it is difficult to trust if you already have some questions now.

I really hope this works out for you.  You have had more than your fair share of losers...you deserve a keeper.

Love to you!

I don‘t like the sound of this at all.  I don‘t know how "great" this guy is honey, and don‘t necessarily concur with your belief that he would never cheat.  What happened to him "earning your trust one way or another?"  I really call BS on that statement, given his actions.  Remember, look at a guy‘s actions, not his words. 

This woman must mean something special to him if you have told him that you have trust issues, asked him not to continue a relationship with you, and he still calls her.  Once there has been a relationship between two people, it is very easy for the bond to reform.  I would be very edgy about this.  As to her being pregnant and about to get married....says who?  I don‘t know how you find out if that is true, but I‘d sure try to find a way.  Plus, married pregnant women cheat too.  I wouldn‘t call just anyone at 10 at night, and would be even less likely to do so on a weekend night...too intimate.  Don‘t discount this...none of this feels right to me.

By the way, every time an old boyfriend has contacted me, they have been up to no good.  Married, have a girlfriend, living with a significant other.....all up to no good.  Please don‘t let this guy snow you.

Thank you, Little Miss, for bring us all together.  We love you!

It is the one year anniversary of no-contact with the ex. I am posting not because I think I should get kudos for this, because honestly, contacting him after all he did to me should never have been an option.  I am posting this to tell anyone who is contemplating contact or hasn‘t yet cut the cord what no-contact did for me, and what it feels like after a year. 

When I first started reading here, it was after we broke up the first time.  I had received a call from his girlfriend, who had moved in recently (we were long distance and I had no clue that he‘d been carrying on a double life with this woman, whom initially was also long distance).  I was devestated and had to resist the daily urge to call.  At about the time I was getting over it, 4 or 5 months later, he contacted me, wanting me back.  Foolishly, I gave in.  It was not very long before the lies and strange behavior began and I knew he was at it again.  When we broke up, he asked if he could call me "from time to time" and I said no. 

Saying no was very hard, and I almost called to tell him I changed my mind.  Thanks to the support of everyone here, I didn‘t do it.  As the months went by, I would tell myself, if you still want to call in a month, you can. About 6 months ago, I realized that although I still thought about him every day, I no longer wanted to call. Somewhere in the next 6 months, I stopped thinking of him everyday. 

I am amazed at how over it I feel now.  I know that if we had contact, I would not feel this way.  I read the posts here about people not wanting to get out of bed, or crying all the time, and want to tell you, you will not always feel this way. In fact, you will be amazed how quickly and even more surprisingly, how very completely, you will heal if you give yourself the time and distance you need.

Doing the no-contact thing is actually very empowering.  With rare exceptions, our exes want to talk to us.  They want to feel we are still there for them, that the door is open if they want to walk through it, that the love they did everything to ruin still somehow survives.  They want to know what we are doing, to find out that we aren‘t dating anyone, and if we are, to be able to counter with "how much could she like him if she‘ll still talk to me? If you deprive them of your company, you are a mystery. Most exes will imagine your life is far more exciting than it is. Don‘t ruin that fantasy by picking up the phone on a Saturday night while you are home watching Dateline and eating Ben and Jerry‘s!

I love this site.  I don‘t have time to post as often as I‘d like, but I cannot imagine a time when I will ever leave.  To Little Miss Womansavers and all my lovely friends who have helped me so much, thank you and bless you.  I truly love you.

I don‘t know how you didn‘t clock that woman...she sounds so damn smug.  Your ex is lying to you.  The babysitter obviously felt sorry enough for you to jeapordize her job by telling you the truth.  Believe her.  

If he wants to see the children, you should arrange for someone, a third party, to do pick up and drop off so you don‘t have to see him.  How dare he come around like nothing is wrong!

You know what really happened...don‘t let him make a fool of you.  We are here for you baby.

Lulu, I know you have enough to worry about, but I would be shocked if this was limited to 2 incidents.  Your husband took a big risk by fondling her at your home with you present.  Usually people don‘t make this kind of slip-ups unless it has been going on a while and they are pretty comfortable with the other person.  I‘m so sorry.  I hate that sick feeling in my stomach more than anything.  Please keep posting and let us know what is going on.

Love to you!

Are any of the princesses actually good role models for little girls?  lorrie honey, I agree about Ariel.  Dumping her family and running off with a strange man.  She is just lucky that worked out! 

Snow White, doing all that housework for the dwarves, taking an apple from a complete stranger? Sleeping Beauty, again, quite stupid.  Had only one job: to avoid spindles, nevertheless, went near one anyone and got pricked.  Belle.  My sister is very creeped out by the bestiality issues, but I actually find her one of the less annoying princesses.  She is loyal and can see beyond his looks... that is certainly a better message than many of the others.

It is hard not to like the story of Cindarella, but I wonder sometimes if I absorbed too much of it and am still waiting for my Prince Charming.  I think I still know all the words to the songs in the 1950 version of the movie.  Someday my prince will come, someday my prince will come...

Oh Busty, I love you!  I do feel like I‘ve come far...what a difference a year makes!  Thank you for all your love and support...I remember when I first started posting here, you had the little piggy avatar where she had her legs over a fence and cute little floppy ears...I always felt so comforted by it, and you.

Thank you all for your beautiful words.  I love being here.  I think we have to figure out a way to have a convention so we can all meet!

Wow, Ellen, someone must have really hurt you, and for that I am sorry.  I have been cheated on, and I stilll don‘t believe all men cheat.  I actually know a lot of decent men and know for sure that it would never occur to them to cheat.  Hell, one of my brothers very briefly dated two women (he‘s very, very hot even though he is my brother), wasn‘t even sleeping with both, and I thought he was going to have a nervous breakdown!  Many men just can‘t stomach it, and many men believe in loyalty.  I‘m sorry you haven‘t expereinced them, but I hope you do, and that you come back and tell us.

Thinking as you do has a dangerous side effect.  In my experience, people will deliver what you expect of them.  If a man you are dating or married to gets the vibe that you believe he will cheat, I really think he will be much more likely to do so.  If you let him know you expect more of him and will show him the door if he screws up, well, then I think he will try a lot harder not to do so.

As for flyguy...leave him alone!  He is an awesome man and one of my very favorite people on this site.  He is no cheater, despite the fact that as a pilot he has plenty of opportunity.  To suggest that there is something "wrong" with him for not cheating concerns me...what kind of message are you sending out to men?  Really, I do not want to attack you.  But I hope you will think about what I am saying.

Oh sweetie, I know you have been struggling with this for  months.  You are doing the right thing.  Love to you honey and lots of hugs.

If you realy are only 25, then you started up with this man when you were very young.  I‘m excusing a lot of the things you did then to the former girlfriend due to your age.  However, you are older now.  Do you not see that you did something very wrong to that woman?  I hope you have the insight to realize that you really wronged her, and she didn‘t deserve that.

Honey, you are getting hit with a cold reality:  if he cheated with you, he‘ll cheat on you.  You need to start your life over, without him.  He has established a pattern, and he won‘t change.  Ever.  Why would you want him?  He treats you very, very poorly and he is a habitual cheater.  You and your child deserve better. Leave him now and don‘t ever take someone else‘s man again.  This is usually what happens when you do.

I think one chance is generous...two is crazy.  How many have you given?  He does not treat you great, my friend, if he cheats on you.  They all cry when they get caught.  it doesn‘t mean anything. 

I just went and looked at your age.  Honey, you are old enough to know the answer to this one.  Do you want to live the rest of your days with a lying cheater?  If you have forgiven him once, and he has done it again, he will never change.  Flick him off NOW.

It may be hard at first, but I guarantee you will feel relief at the end of all this.  He doesn‘t deserve you.  Please let us know what you decide and keep posting.  It really helps.

I‘m sorry you are going through this.  Big hugs to you.

****Oh babe.  I just read the rest of your posts.  You have been married for 4 years and he has cheated on you with 4 different women multiple times???  One of them posted him on here?  I hope you won‘t stand for this humiliation a minute longer.  I don‘t care if you love him.  What is there to love?  I hope you can love yourself more and get the hell out now. 

You asked in one of your posts how to find out who posted your husband.  Why don‘t you start a post with his name on it on a couple of the forums?  Maybe someone will come forward.

Hey honey...I‘m sorry you are blue.  Give us an update, and details.  Did he ask you first?  Is he looking for another job?  Does he usually impulsively quit a job before he has a new one?  I had been wondering how things have been going with him.  This just adds a whole new level of stress to what you‘ve already been experiencing.  You will get through it--you are strong honey!

Love you, Sass

Sam, that‘s great!  Wow--a year and a half, what took so long?  Did he try to drag it out? 

I was curious how long you were married, so I took a look at your old posts. That is great justice that you and the other woman both dusted him on the same day...priceless!  How did she find out about you and you about her?  I hope you don‘t mind talking about all this now...I am always curious as to how the bastards get busted.

I hope the finalization of the divorce gives you some closure.  

Hi Little Miss...great to see you!  It is depressing, isn‘t it?  I have come to the sad (and okay, bitter) conclusion that most men are sheep and want a woman that fits some kind of standard that all men understand and live by, even if it‘s low.  Being at all exotic looking has really gone out of style.  The stripper/Stepford look is uniformly recognized by men as "hot," so more and more women are conforming to the look. 

Depressing, I tell you! 

You are soooo funny TM! 

Damn, that site is depressing, on so many levels.  Those women are crazy...and those men...saying "I love you" to 2 women...making lives with 2 women...it just makes me violent.  I can only read that site for a few minutes at a time...truly nauseating.  Hey, but thanks for linking me to it Lor...it is addicting! :)

I am not trying to be mean by saying this:  you do NOT have a great relationship.  If you think you do, you need counseling.  In a great relationship, men do not engage in the type of behavior you are describing.  He is treating you very poorly and you are letting him.  If you stay with him after knowing what he is doing, he will know he can get away with anything with you.  If this hasn‘t already escalated to the physical (which I believe it probably has), it soon will.  You are so young!  Go find a man who truly loves you, not one who just says he does.  Actions, honey, not words!

God bless and good luck.  Keep posting and let us know what you decide.

Honey, I‘m so sorry.  You might not get much from the phone, as he is probably deleting his incoming outgoing calls to her...most cheaters get pretty good at doing that.  What else could the hotel billl possibly be?  I‘m sorry to upset you, but there really aren‘t a lot of viable explanations that dfon‘t include cheating.  Also, a guy who keeps his cell close usually has something to hide.

Can you have a friend follow him when he tells you he has to work late or is going out with the guys? 

I know this is gut-wrenching.  We have all been there and know the sick feeling.  Again, so sorry.

I know I have told all of you this on another thread, but I couldn‘t read this one without thinking of it.

My ex, with whom I was supposed to be having an exclusive relationship, actually said to me as he was telling me how into me he was,"I even think of you when I‘m fucking other girls."  He was drunk enough to think I‘d find that flattering.

I must be over it because I am actually sitting here laughing.  Love you, my chickies!

Not that this isn‘t real, but you all know what I mean.  As I was reading Pandora‘s post and saw that she and Yasmina are going to meet up, I started thinking about all of us meeting someday.  Who has already met?  Busty, have you and Lorrie and Momo met?  I am such a nosy little bitch, but I wonder about things like this. 

LMWS, if you see this, please can we have  a convention?  Damn, that would be fun.

Love, Sass xox

Hi Rhi, hi Randy!  I was feeling a bit blue today and seeing you both back on here really lifted my spirits.

I think she should be told, but really, I don‘t think you are the one to tell her.  I agree with everyone who said  he will eventually reveal himself.  I know I‘ve made the mistake of hooking up with an ex before....vow to never do it again,  move on and don‘t look back.

Boy, you should have asked this question of my mom instead of taking your chances on this board.  She doesn‘t really acknowledge divorce, so she would tell you he is still your husband.  No, she‘s not nuts, just very Catholic.

Good luck to you.

As always, honey, very cute.  You have good taste and they do, after all, grow them cuter back east.  The men here, not so cute.

Keep us posted! 

It is pretty clear that this guy suffers from mental illness...most people who end up living on the streets do, since if someone is not mentally ill or does not suffer from a severe substance abuse problem, they generally have the faculties to find a program or shelter or someone to help.  Maybe that is naive of me to believe that. Either way, I think you should just think he had problems and move on from the things he said to you.  Have you ever gone to counseling?  It really does help, as does reading and posting here.

All the best to you, dearie.

Oh, thank you honey...

I love Vegas.  Just tell me when to be there!

Love, Sass

No, I understand that.  It is hard to get over the love you feel for someone, whether it is a friend who betrayed you, or a lover.  Why do you think we are all here? : )

I thought that was odd that your boyfriend said he disliked her so much...by the way, what do you intend to do about him?  I hope you aren‘t blaming this solely on her.  If you found out about these two instances, the cheating may run deeper.  Have you thought about that?

I‘m sorry you are suffering.  It‘s very hard to lose a friend.  Just don‘t put your head in the sand regarding your boyfriend. 

Okay honey, I‘m confused.  You indicated in your other post that one of your closest friends slept with your husband? boyfriend? (not sure which) and you find yourself missing her.

This post involves someone you don‘t know .  I really am not trying to rub salt in the wound, but I have to ask you, what is going on with this guy?  How many times has he cheated?  Why are you still there?  While I understand being angry at the other woman, I think you are mis-directing your anger and focusing on the wrong issue:  you need to think about leaving him.  He slept with your friend, and then you find him going to a hotel with a woman.  I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceburg.

As to this incident, how do you know this woman even knows you exist?  I was the other woman and had no clue. 

You have some big thinking to do.  I‘m so sorry you are going through this, but denying the truth won‘t help.

Love to you.

Wow, that is awful.  I am so sorry, honey.  I am also sorry to say that I just don‘t think there is any recovering from a betrayal of this magnitude.  A year long affair???  The lies he must have told you in that time...I can‘t even imagine.  Just when you are beginning to forgive, you are going to realize another one.  How will you ever trust him again?  I think you‘d be best off divorcing him now and getting on with your life.  I honestly don‘t see how you‘ll ever get over this.

How did you find out?  Is he willing to go to counseling?  I will support whatever you decide to do, but I think you need to seriously consider leaving.  We all loved our cheaters.  Sometimes you need to dig deep and love yourself more, and sometimes that means leaving.

Please give us more details.  And I wouldn‘t bother wasting a second on the girl.  Young, stupid, and not the one who promised to love and honor you.

Please keep posting.  I‘ll be praying for you.

Momo, please feel free to use it if you ever have the need (God forbid).  I myself plan to use it when (hell, I should say if, but with my history, it‘s when) I find out the next guy has cheated on me, I‘ll sleep with him one last time and blurt it out at the top of my lungs.  That would be beyond revenge.

This woman is a serial cheater.  How many more chances do you intend to give her to make a fool out of you?  I‘m sorry to be harsh, but I think you need a real wakeup call/slap in the face.  Resting at the hotel?  Please tell me you didn‘t buy that ridiculous story.

I am always amazed at how many people on this site describe their relationship as "wonderful" then go on to describe acts of infidelity dating back years.  Honey, your relationship is far from wonderful.  She is using you and playing you.  Please, please don‘t let that continue.  It will make it even more difficult to get over the ending of this relationship if you let her continue to take advantage of your loving and somewhat gullible nature for much longer.

I am so sorry you are going through this.  I know you love her, but please love yourself more and put an end to this charade.

Don‘t eat anything where you have to ask,"What is this?" : )

From my brother:  "Don‘t worry about whether or not he likes you.  Figure out if you like him."

Another favorite of my brother‘s: "Revenge is a dish best served cold."  This has stopped me from making many a foolish move when in the grieving process.

I must be the most untrusting person on here, because I can‘t entertain for a second that he was telling you the truth.  I am so, so very sorry to say this, but he is still cheating. He bought those condoms to use them, and he has someone to use them with.  Cheaters can cheat anywhere, anytime.  I knew a guy who would meet up with women at 8 a.m.....his girlfriend never suspected because he was always home at night.

This whole thing enrages me.  And it is a red flag to me that he turned it around on you.  Guilty, guilty, guilty.  I am so sorry, but I don‘t know how much more proof you need.  I understand about not wanting to spoil the mood, but really, what point is there in just going along with a sham.

I‘m so sorry you are going through this.  Please face it head on and be honest with yourself as to what finding these condoms means-you will feel better in the end if you haven‘t let him make a fool of you.

Why would you think he doesn‘t want you anymore?  It may be however, that he wants you and someone else.  I know my ex certainly did.  He actually said of his betrayal of me and of her, "I figured what you both didn‘t know couldn‘t hurt you."

I would beware...they sometimes act really nice out of guilt and/or as a means of throwing you off the scent.  Again, I really don‘t see any explanation for the condoms other than the obvious. I‘m sorry you are going through this.

Honey, I just think there gets to be a point where you don‘t go to him for answers anymore and trust your instincts and let him go.  Finding this last set of condoms would have been that point for me, but everyone has their own breaking point.

If you are looking to this man for the truth, and to validate staying, you‘ll never leave. 

Keep posting here...it really helps. Love to you.

The easiest way is to pretend he doesn‘t exist and do the no contact thing...can you do that?  From your other post, it sounds like he was deceiful from the beginning.  You have to let this be over.  This situation will not change, and even if it did, he will likely seek out a replacement for that situation with her.  Four years is a long time.  Don‘t waste another minute on this loser.

Maybe you should consider a new job...fresh starts are always good.

I‘m not a guy but here goes...I don‘t know if you can believe him.  There are a lot of bad signs here.  Smashing the computer...a pretty over the top move for someone with not a lot to hide.  Her lying about meeting up...that is not good.  If nothing happended, why would she lie?  And that spring in his step you refer to...where does that usually come from?

I think there is more than meets the eye here.  And I know I sound like a huge bitch for saying this, but don‘t go too overboard in buying the whole "oh, you are the love of my life, this was the wakeup call I needed" thing.  Men do that when they are damn guilty and to throw you off the trail. 

I‘d monitor him closely but try not to let him know that you are.  If this woman would lie to you when confronted, she is one of the truly dangerous ones.  It is likely she would carry on an affair behind your back.  And I wonder about the "one" meeting.  Just be careful.  It is possible more occurred and he told you they met just once to make you believe he was being totally honest.

I don‘t think he is gullible and I don‘t think he thought she just wanted to catch up.  I think he enjoyed the interaction and the potential of something more, or whatever was already occurring.  I am sorry to say this to you, as I know you have invested alot of time in this man. 

So your call stopped him "forcing" himself on her.  What was her excuse for even being in a hotel room with him?  If  I sound like i‘m really not buying her story, I hope you know it‘s because I‘m on your side. I think the hardest thing for me about being cheated on was the blow to my pride...I hated him making a fool out of me.  When I see someone offering implausible explanations, I think it connotes a lack of repect and it really pushes my buttons.  I see her doing that to you here, so again, I apologize if I sounded harsh in any way in my reponses to you.

Hi Robin, I‘m sorry you arer going through this.  There is nothing worse than that sick feeling in your stomach as you wonder where they are, what they are doing, etc.  So, to be clear, they had an affair 7 years ago and have been talking ever since?  Are they still talking?

I tried to take back my cheater (just a boyfriend, not a husband), and honestly, the relationship was never the same for me again.  I could never enjoy it, and was always wondering what he was doing.  Now, as I start dating again after about a year off, I joke to my friends that I want to go find him and stick a sharp pencil in his eye for making it so hard for me to trust again.....even after a year of no contact with him, the residual effects of the relationship still haunt me, even though I think I have forgiven him.  I am really impressed with the women on this site who have been able to forgive and start over, but seeing how I reacted to what happened, I think the realtionship would be forever stripped of any pleasure.

I hope this works out for you.  How are you feeling this week?

This whole question just makes me sad.  We want to believe them so badly, but at what cost?  This is a no brainer to me.  First he cheats, then he insults her intelligence with this idiotic story. 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

My story, you seem like a sweet man.  Your kids will very likely suffer more if you stay with her, because I promise you, if you stay, you will always be sad.  Sad and worried about what she is doing.  Kids do better with 2 loving happy parents who live apart than they do with a situation like the one you are describing. 

I�ve seen alot of once a cheater, always a cheater debates, but what about this one, once a player always a player?

I recently met a man who is divorced after 7 years, 40 or nearly 40,and swears he never cheated during his marriage.  Very hot.  When he was young, he was a professional athlete and (why the hell do they always tell me shit like this??? Sigh) says he slept with between 125 and 200 women.  Do you think someone like that can ever be faithful in a relationship?  He says he was always very upfront that he didn�t want a relationship, and that when he wants one, he is capable of being committed. 

I was somewhat horrified by such a high number but then I thought, well, I�ve likely kissed in excess of 100 men and the only reason I haven�t had sex with that many is because my refined moral compass made me put the brakes on it.  (no snickers please.) Since single men rarely put the brakes on anything, should I really be horrified?

I like him, but after all the nonsense in my life, I don�t need more. So, let her rip.  I can take it.

Oh, I‘ve disapointed you Dreamer...I feel awful!  I hear what you are saying, and you are probably right.  We had been friends for about 6 months before anything started.  He didn‘t seem like a crazy player, but actually semed very normal and sweet.  I was actually really surprised when he came out with that zinger...why do men always tell me how many women they‘ve been with??? I really don‘t ever want to know, and yet they all do it.  Drives me beserk.

He claims the vast bulk of the women were when he played pro sport (19-23ish), and that he has grown up.  Still, that is a lot of women, and when he saw the look on my face, he spent the rest of the night backpedaling. Also, the fact that he told me at all does undercut his contention that he has advanced in any way since then...

I‘ll keep you posted. Thanks for the advice!

Hey, way to burst my bubble Dreamer! LOL. You are right, I know you are right.  As much as I‘d like to, I‘m can‘t disregard your reasoning here.  Especially when you‘ve said it so well.  Damn.  You are good.

Honey, this woman is not your friend.  Of course she is going to tell him you called.  Probably did it immediately after hanging up with you.  And if this is the chick he went to the hotel with, she has obviously decided to ally with him and not tell you anything.  This woman is lying.  I don‘t know why.  Sometimes men tell the other woman they are in the process of leaving and just need time so to please go along with the stories, other times women just don‘t care about "sharing" the guy but don‘t want conflict from the wife or girlfriend.  Your boyfriend‘s behavior is classic cheater...really sweet at times and accusing you of being crazy at others...we have all been there.  I am wondering about something.  You aren‘t married to this man...what is making you hang on so tightly?

(By the way, it makes it easier if you don‘t start a new thread everytime but just post updates in your old one so everyone can remember what‘s going on...you get better advice that way.)

Just sit down and do stream of conciousness.  Write really quickly and just get something down.  Do 1 page a day.  Then edit it at the end--you will have passed the scary part by then.

Or, do what I did in in college--this worked for me every time.  I would make notes on a yellow legal pad.  I would seperate the thoughts but they didn‘t need to go together.  Then I would cut them up and put them in piles by topic.  The paper basically wrote itself.

Good luck honey!

Your post made me very sad.  I wish you had never married this guy.  I‘m judging from your post that you wish that also.

You say leaving seems impossible.  I must admit that I am concerned that if you do not leave him, he will eventually leave you.  He seems obsessed with finding someone, anyone, to take the bait.  I really think you are going to forgive him for all this, and in 3-4 years, he is going to disappear in the middle of the night with some chick he met on line, leaving you with no recorse for divorce or child support.  Are you working right now?  Does he make a decent living?

I think it is too late to set this relationship right.  Once you have shown a guy you will forgive so much, they will always take advantage of you.  I hope you don‘t think I am blaming you in any way for this.  I am just telling you that I don‘t think you can flip it around at this point.  How humiliating for you that he is dirty chatting with all these mothers in your circle!!!  I can‘t believe that.

I am so sorry you are going through this.  Please keep posting.

Absolutely.  Even if they don‘t want to believe you, it will linger in their minds and they will keep a closer watch...but I think they will believe you.  You sound very credible, and really have nothing to gain by lying.

Do it!!

Wow!!  I‘m sorry this happened to you.  What made you suspicious?  Something must have happened to make you call his hometown.  Also, how do you know it‘s him if he didn‘t tell you his real last name?  What did the current wife say?  I take it she believed you, which I‘m glad about.  She certainly deserves to know what kind of cheating loser she‘s married to. 

You will feel hurt at first, and then it will turn to anger.  Keep posting!

No, it‘s not your hormones, sweetie.  Unfortunately, you are listing the red flags of an affair.  Stop confronting him...just watch and listen.  If you confront him, he will just get sneakier.  Let up on him and he will make a mistake and you‘ll catch him red handed.

I know this is hard, as you want to do something to stop this before it really gets rolling, if it hasn‘t already.  I don‘t know how to tell you to do that, as I‘ve never been sucessful at preventing anyone from cheating on me, and man, have I tried.  Ladies?  Any thoughts on how to do that?

Apparently, it is very common for men to begin affairs during pregnanacy, as they fear the changes in their lives, the increased pressure, what they perceive will be a lack of attention once the baby comes, etc.  It would be horribly low and cruel of him to do this to you at any point, but especially when you are making a family together.  I‘m so sorry you are going through this...please keep posting.

Wow, how incredibly disrespectful.  I don‘t know where to begin.  But yes, at a minimum, if he can‘t even control himself around the one person who should be most off limits, you can bet he has not controlled himself with others.  Please, please, get out of this.  Wow, he is an incredible bastard.  I will pray that you find the strength to leave him.

Hi Nikky, well, I see that everyone is viewing your post but no one is responding...it is probable that they, like me, really don‘t know what to say to you.  I think you want a magic answer on how to make him stop...I have none.  I can tell you that with what you are describing, he is going to keep cheating.  He doesn‘t respect you, and he certainly doesn‘t respect the fact that you are staying with him despite his repeated cheating.  How many times is finally going to be too many?  What are you waiting for?

You say that with a new house and 4 children you can‘t consider leaving.  Well, there aren‘t too many things we can tell you then sweetie because this man isn‘t going to change.  Not for you, not for anyone. 

I know this sounds harsh.  I don‘t mean to.  I see nothing here to indicate that he is willing to change. Am I wrong?  Please tell me I am. 

I‘m sorry he is doing this to you and your children.  Please keep posting here and keep reading.  You have more options than you think you do.

This is a hard post to reply to, and I think others must have found that also or you would have gotten some advice by now.  I‘ll give it a shot...It is hard to know what to say to you because you married this man despite the fact that you already knew he had cheated.  I probably would not have advised that.  Why buy something you already know is broken?  Also, I have a hard time with his version of events..his description as the innocent victim being forced into sex makes me a little nauseous.  He protested, he pushed her away, but he still did it?  I am not so sure.  Also, I am concerned that you seem to be painting this woman as the demon.  Again, I‘m not so sure.  I have been the unknowing other woman more than once.  Men don‘t always tell a woman they are taken, and I would be wary about completely believing this man about anything, even that he disclosed his relationship with you prior to all this happening.

Since you already married him, I guess I‘d advise easing up on him.  There is no better way of guaranteeing that an immature man will cheat on you than by nagging him constantly that he might be doing so.  I‘m sorry if I‘m not really helping.  Also, I must admit to being a little suspicious of him coming home and giving you big hugs and crying.  I truly, truly hope those aren‘t crocodile tears and that your man isn‘t crying and carrying on to veer you of the scent.  My instincts are pretty good, and I have to tell you, something about that stinks a bit.

Good luck honey.  Keep posting.

Tris, don‘t waste another minute on this immature woman.  There is something wrong with her.  Kick her to the curb and enjoy it, if not for you, for me.  I did not get to kick my last cheater to the curb, and damn, how I would have liked to!  You sound like a sensitive, smart guy...you certainly shouldn‘t have a hard time finding a quality woman.  Unlike the case with men, there are a lot of quality women in the world from which to choose : )

I don‘t want to kick you when you‘re down, but I would guard your heart more carefully in the future.  Giving her photos of you as a child, giving her your whole heart, thinking of her as your angel...all things I would reserve for a time when she has earned it.  Unfortunately, there is no substitute for time, and four months is not nearly enough time in which to see someone‘s true character.  Just some advice from someone a little older and more jaded...

Sooooo......what happened?  Fill us in!!!

Tris, update please...I hope she didn‘t talk you into taking her back.  you can do so much better, my friend.

Have a great time, honey!  Eat delicious food and fattening desserts that you normally wouldn‘t eat and relax and try not to worry about anything...wish we were all going with you!

Hi chickies-I love these lyrics and think there‘s real truth behind them...sometimes showing them you don‘t give a crap anymore is far more hurtful than telling them off.  Love, Sass xox

SHE DON’T LOVE ME

By Blake Shelton

You know if I‘d seen her comin‘
I‘d probably have tried to hide
But I came around the corner
And she caught me by surprise
There was no ice cold shoulder
There was no ugly scene
She just smiled and didn‘t say
The things I thought she‘d say to me

It was nothin‘ like that rainy night
She left and slammed the door
Not only she don‘t love me
She don‘t hate me anymore

I felt like some neighbor
Just some guy she once knew
You‘d never know she loved me
And I broke her heart in two
Was she hidin‘ her emotions
Or did she really get that strong
Right then she turned and
Introduced me to her new friend John

I could tell the way he shook my hand
He‘d never heard of me before
Not only she don‘t love me
She don‘t hate me anymore

There was no ice cold shoulder
There was no ugly scene
She just smiled and didn‘t say
The things I knew she‘d say to me

I guess she got so caught up in him
My memory‘s gone ignored
Not only she don‘t love me
She don‘t hate me anymore

I know it might sound crazy
But I don‘t know what hurts me more
Is it the fact that she don‘t love me
Or she don‘t hate me anymore

Hi Lizzi, I‘m so very sorry that this happened to you.  My instinct is to tell you to get rid of him and start your life anew.  Thirty is so young, and this betrayal is so huge.  Having sex in your home and with your best friend just shows such a blatant lack of respect for you...not to mention the level of hostitlity towards you that it implies.  Is he jealous of you?  Are both of them jealous of you? 

I don‘t seee how you would ever  get past this, but  I‘m not  a therapist.  What did your therapist say?

I am curious about the aftermath of all this.  What did your friend say to you?  What was his excuse? 

We are here for you! Keep posting.  It really helps.

Hi...I just finished reading your other thread and didn‘t really agree with everyone who thought you were imagining things.  I believe in the strength of the gut instinct, especially when it involves a woman‘s instinct that her guy is cheating.  After reading this post, I really don‘t think you were imagining anything!  The comment your husband made about leaving is classic cheater.  So is the walking out on you while you are all dressed up for him.  It‘s hostile, it‘s angry and it shows he wants to be elsewhere.  I hope I am not hurting you by saying that.  Your relationship doesn‘t matter to him anymore.  I think he has somewhere else to go.

I am so sorry that you are married to such an immature selfish prick.  Seven kids and he is acting like this!  I agree with Yas that he thinks you will never leave him because of the kids.  Show him he‘s wrong.  I‘d love to hear more about your financial situation.  Could you leave?  You would get support on all 7 kids and he‘d have to subsist on mac and cheese.  I‘d personally love to see that.

Hi Sandy,

I really think you did the right thing.  Not meeting his family after a year, not willing to share his spacce, the late night calls...all red flags of at the minimum, a very serious comittmentphobe, and at the worst, a big fat cheater.  It sounds like he could have gone on like this indefinitley.  Many women waste their whole young lives on men like this.  Good for you for being honest with yourself and getting out.

This is the worst part!  It does get better!  I loved my cheating bastard ex and, here, after a year of no contact, can honestly say I very rarely think about him now.  By the way, I never met his family either.  There is something wrong when a man doesn‘t want to share parts of his life with you.  Go get a copy of "Men who Can‘t Love" or "He‘s Scared, She‘s Scared."  They really helped me see that some individuals will never fully commit to anyone.  Rob fits the profile to a T.  They often cheat to keep themselves from getting bonded to you fully, so both he may be a commitmentphobe who has become a cheater.  It has very little to do with actually wanting another woman and very  much to do with wanting to detach from you.

You did the right thing!  Please keep posting...love to you.

This is one of the best things I‘ve read on this site.  Please, please read it.  I took back a cheater who said he changed, and I think he really believed he had, and within months of taking him back, he did it to me again. All the best to you, honey.