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Posts by BMW.
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WomanSaver's Forum
Topic: Divorce Lawyer Database
Subject: Divorce Lawyer Database - Posted: 2/12/2006 2:38:13 PM

There is a site developed by women lawyers specifically for divorce & child custody cases - http://www.womenlawyers.com/domestic.htm

(no need to reinvent the wheel! ;) )

Until then try these:

http://womansdivorce.com/divorce-links.html

http://www.aardvarc.org/

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com

http://www.divorcemag.com/

http://www.divorcecentral.com/

http://www.divorcesupport.com/

http://www.divorcenet.com/

http://www.divorcehq.com

My advice? Man or Woman lawyer - it doesnt matter.  Take free consults with at LEAST 3.  Dont take their word for it just because theyre a lawyer (they might be lazy and looking for a slam dunk)  Ask QUESTIONS!!  Fees? How can I reach you? How long does it take for you to return a call?  The first place I would call would be a Domestic Violence Crisis Line in your state for a referral.


Topic: Husband says its not abuse.. am I nuts or is he wrong?
Subject: Husband says its not abuse.. am I nuts or is he wrong? - Posted: 2/12/2006 2:49:47 PM

how nice of him to tell you how and what to think! That by itself is ABUSIVE.

He‘s a cop? Just shows me how much more education needs to be done with police in the US & Canada.  As someone who has been there & done that - call a DV CRISIS CENTER FIRST!!  let them walk you through the system. 

Try these sites: http://www.abuseofpower.info

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com


Topic: Question on monogamy?
Subject: Question on monogamy? - Posted: 2/13/2006 7:22:43 AM
Monogamy is NOT a myth. 

Marriage however - can be.

LMWS 

Topic: Verbal Abuse
Subject: Verbal Abuse - Posted: 2/13/2006 7:27:22 AM
Try here for more information on verbal & emotional abuse:

SANCTUARY FOR THE ABUSED



Topic: I think Im living with Satan himself!!!
Subject: I think Im living with Satan himself!!! - Posted: 2/13/2006 7:29:32 AM
Sounds like hes one of these:

http://groups.msn.com/psychopath


KICK HIS ASS OUT!!! He‘s FULL of crap - tell you he needs more? WTF is that?  He got swampland in Florida to sell too?

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Has anyone been through menopause yet?
Subject: Has anyone been through menopause yet? - Posted: 2/13/2006 7:33:13 AM
I am in it.... sort of 

http://www.menopause-online.com/

http://www.minniepauz.com/ (great site)

LMWS



Topic: ANTI-VALENTINE‘S DAY
Subject: ANTI-VALENTINE‘S DAY - Posted: 2/14/2006 5:49:33 AM
Share your anti Valentine‘s Day thoughts and stories:

http://www.antivday.com/forum/forum-1.html



Topic: valentines Day Gift ideas for men
Subject: valentines Day Gift ideas for men - Posted: 2/14/2006 5:53:23 AM
Bring beer

Show up naked....



Topic: Revenge or?
Subject: Revenge or? - Posted: 2/14/2006 5:56:05 AM
Try:

http://www.makehimpay.net



Topic: Defamation of Character
Subject: Defamation of Character - Posted: 2/15/2006 8:32:53 AM
I always get a big kick out of a cheating, lying, abusive man who throws around a new word hes learned - like DEFAMATION or MAIL FRAUD... without knowing what the **** it really means.

You cant be sued for MAIL FRAUD if you are LEGALLY MARRIED and the mail came to your JOINT RESIDENCE 

If the lying, bullying S.O.B. did nothing wrong.... then why is he upset about you opening his bill?  Tell him to sue away - you could use the money for filing false charges.

Tell him to bend over, LMWS has a present for him. 

Slander: ORAL defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another, which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed. Truth is a complete defense to a defamation claim.

Libel: to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander, which is oral defamation. Truth is a complete defense to a defamation claim.

"In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was FALSE. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material - such as putting it on an internet board or in an email yourself, you will not have a case. Establishing the truth is the single most effective defense that can be offered. If the remark is truthful and it "hurts", is embarrassing, or subjects you to ridicule, there is little you can do. Unfortunately, unless the remark is false, you have no recourse."



Topic: Not really sure, but I do need advice
Subject: Not really sure, but I do need advice - Posted: 2/17/2006 3:24:07 PM
nieve - there‘s nothing wrong with being sensitive! Listen to your gut and RUN LIKE HELL

How to Spot an Abuser

Those red flags are there to expose an abuser if only we were trained to see them. You will read the list and think… ”Now why oh why didn’t I think of that!” That over protective boyfriend in high school that demanded all your time and attention may have seemed romantic at that time. That boyfriend that was so handsome and charming but never seemed to have any money, and even though he made profuse flowery promises, he never paid you back.

We may have grown up in a home or even in a culture were women were treated this way, or we may have learned to expect it from the examples above. But as adult women we should know the red flags that help spot an abuser.

I wish the schools and churches (better yet the parents) would teach these red flags to the young ladies so they would make the proper choices in choosing dates. The following is a checklist to help weed out the abuser from the nice guys. And yes, there still are nice guys out there.

HOW TO SPOT AN ABUSER CHECKLIST

____   1. Are you afraid to act like yourself with this person?
____   2. Does this person refuse to talk AND listen to you?
____   3. Do you catch this person in lies?
____   4. Are you this person‘s only friend?
____   5. Does this person talk badly about other women?
____   6. Does this person mistreat their mother/father, siblings or ex?
____   7. Is this person mean to animals?
____   8. Is this person subject to road rage?
____   9. Does this person anger easily?
____  10. Does this person hold grudges?
____  11. Does this person express their anger physically?
____  12. Is this person upset that you have other friends?
____  13. Is this person jealous of your friends and realatives?
____  14. Does this person try to cut you off from your friends?
____  15. Does this person try to keep you from practicing your faith?
____  16. Would you not consider this person a friend outside of this relationship?
____  17. Is this person totally fixated on you?
____  18. Was this person abused as a child? Was their mother abused?
____  19. Is this person co-dependent?
____  20. Does this person have a poor self-image?
____  21. Does this person have poor impulse control?
____  22. Is this person preoccupied with sex?
____  23. Does this person have a history of alcohol or drug abuse or a problem with compulsive gambling?
____  24. Has this person pushed for intimacy early in the relationship? Perhaps making all sorts of promises for marriage and hope for the future.
____  25. Does this person use guilt to try to manipulate you?
____  26. Does this person unjustly accuse you of flirting with others?
___   27. Does this person take your money?
___  28. Must you always watch the TV program that this person wishes to see the movie of their choice?
___   29. Has this person tried “playful” forceful sex? Not stopping until you REALLY objected?
____ 30.  Has this person threatened to hit you?
____ 31.  Has this person hit, shoved, bit, kicked or in other ways tried to injure you?
____ 32.  Has this person destroyed any of your property? Has this person threatened to do so?
____ 33.  Does this person have a dual personality? Is this person nice and friendly most of the time, then cruel and heartless at other times (Jeckyll and Hyde)?
____ 34. Does this person have to know where you are every minute and check up to you to make sure?
____ 35. Does this person check through your computer history, e-mail, cookies and logs to see where you have been? Does this person read your mail?
____  36. Are you not allowed to be alone with friends and family?
____  37. Does this person have a problem with authority figures?
____  38. Does this person have extreme highs and extreme lows?
____  39. Has this person tried to ‘brush aside‘ your concerns and just trust him?
____  40.
Listen to your phone calls?

Simple questions. Powerful questions. Perhaps even life saving questions.

If you answer YES to more than just even one or two of these you are in an abusive relationship. The higher the number of questions checked the more serious the potential of the abuse. Carry this list with you on dates, keep a copy by your computer to refer to when chatting online it is a great tool! I used it (it worked) and I know of many other women that have.

Unfortunately, abusers can also be very intelligent and charming and can often weave elaborate lies. Think of the serial killers we hear about on the news. That is why it is SO very important to take one’s time to get to know the person you are interested in. Hopefully even a skilled liar will eventually hang himself or herself on a lie.

Note: This list is not comprehensive. Your particular situation may be somewhat different. If you feel you are being abused, seek professional counseling. Nothing in this checklist shoud be considered a substitute for counseling.



Topic: FEBRUARY IS WOMEN‘S HEART HEALTH MONTH
Subject: FEBRUARY IS WOMEN‘S HEART HEALTH MONTH - Posted: 2/17/2006 3:26:49 PM
Prevalence:
  • 8,000,000 American women are currently living with heart disease - 10% of women ages 45 - 64 and 25% age 65 and over.
  • 6,000,000 of women today have a history of heart attack and/or angina or both. Nearly
  • 13% of women age 45 and over have had a heart attack.
  • 435,000 American women have heart attacks each year; 83,000 are under age 65 and 9,000 are under age 45. Their average age is 70.4.
  • 4,000,000 women suffer from angina, and 47,000 of them were hospitalized in 1999.

Mortality:

  • Heart disease is the leading cause of death of American women and kills 32% of them.
  • 43% of deaths in American women, or nearly 500,000, are caused by cardiovascular disease (heart disease and stroke) each year.
  • 267,000 women die each year from heart attacks, which kill six times as many women as breast cancer.
  • 31, 837 women die each year of congestive heart failure, or 62.6% of all heart failure deaths.

At-Risk:

  • The age-adjusted rate of heart disease for African American women is 72% higher than for white women, while African American women ages 55-64 are twice as likely as white women to have a heart attack and 35% more likely to suffer from coronary artery disease.
  • Women who smoke risk having a heart attack 19 years earlier than non-smoking women.
  • Women with diabetes are two to three times more likely to have heart attacks.
  • High blood pressure is more common in women taking oral contraceptives, especially in obese women.
  • 39% of white women, 57% of black women, 57% of Hispanic women, and 49% Asian/Pacific Islander women are sedentary and get no leisure time physical activity.
  • 23% of white women, 38% of black women, and 36% Mexican American women are obese.

Compared with Men:

  • 38% of women and 25% of men will die within one year of a first recognized heart attack.
  • 35% of women and 18% of men heart attack survivors will have another heart attack within six years.
  • 46% of women and 22% of men heart attack survivors will be disabled with heart failure within six years.
  • Women are almost twice as likely as men to die after bypass surgery.
  • Women are less likely than men to receive beta-blockers, ACE inhibitors or even aspirin after a heart attack.
  • More women than men die of heart disease each year, yet women receive only:
    • 33% of angioplasties, stents and bypass surgeries
    • 28% of inplantable defibrillators and
    • 36% of open-heart surgeries
  • Women comprise only 25% of participants in all heart-related research studies.
Go to http://www.womenheart.org/   for LOADS of information!

Topic: HOW TO SPOT AN ABUSER
Subject: HOW TO SPOT AN ABUSER - Posted: 2/17/2006 3:28:25 PM
HOW TO SPOT AN ABUSER

Those red flags are there to expose an abuser if only we were trained to see them. You will read the list and think… ”Now why oh why didn’t I think of that!” That over protective boyfriend in high school that demanded all your time and attention may have seemed romantic at that time. That boyfriend that was so handsome and charming but never seemed to have any money, and even though he made profuse flowery promises, he never paid you back.

We may have grown up in a home or even in a culture were women were treated this way, or we may have learned to expect it from the examples above. But as adult women we should know the red flags that help spot an abuser.

I wish the schools and churches (better yet the parents) would teach these red flags to the young ladies so they would make the proper choices in choosing dates. The following is a checklist to help weed out the abuser from the nice guys. And yes, there still are nice guys out there.

HOW TO SPOT AN ABUSER CHECKLIST

____   1. Are you afraid to act like yourself with this person?
____   2. Does this person refuse to talk AND listen to you?
____   3. Do you catch this person in lies?
____   4. Are you this person‘s only friend?
____   5. Does this person talk badly about other women?
____   6. Does this person mistreat their mother/father, siblings or ex?
____   7. Is this person mean to animals?
____   8. Is this person subject to road rage?
____   9. Does this person anger easily?
____  10. Does this person hold grudges?
____  11. Does this person express their anger physically?
____  12. Is this person upset that you have other friends?
____  13. Is this person jealous of your friends and realatives?
____  14. Does this person try to cut you off from your friends?
____  15. Does this person try to keep you from practicing your faith?
____  16. Would you not consider this person a friend outside of this relationship?
____  17. Is this person totally fixated on you?
____  18. Was this person abused as a child? Was their mother abused?
____  19. Is this person co-dependent?
____  20. Does this person have a poor self-image?
____  21. Does this person have poor impulse control?
____  22. Is this person preoccupied with sex?
____  23. Does this person have a history of alcohol or drug abuse or a problem with  compulsive gambling?
____  24. Has this person pushed for intimacy early in the relationship? Perhaps making                 all sorts of promises for marriage and hope for the future.
____  25. Does this person use guilt to try to manipulate you?
____  26. Does this person unjustly accuse you of flirting with others?
___   27. Does this person take your money?
___  28. Must you always watch the TV program that this person wishes to see the movie of their choice?
___   29. Has this person tried “playful” forceful sex? Not stopping until you REALLYobjected?
____ 30.  Has this person threatened to hit you?
____ 31.  Has this person hit, shoved, bit, kicked or in other ways tried to injure you?
____ 32.  Has this person destroyed any of your property? Has this person threatened to                do so?
____ 33.  Does this person have a dual personality? Is this person nice and friendly most of the time, then cruel and heartless at other times (Jeckyll and Hyde)?
____ 34. Does this person have to know where you are every minute and check up to  you to make sure?
____ 35. Does this person check through your computer history, e-mail, cookies and logs to see where you have been? Does this person read your mail?
____  36. Are you not allowed to be alone with friends and family?
____  37. Does this person have a problem with authority figures?
____  38. Does this person have extreme highs and extreme lows?
____  39. Has this person tried to ‘brush aside‘ your concerns and just trust him?
____  40.
Listen to your phone calls?

Simple questions. Powerful questions. Perhaps even life saving questions.

If you answer YES to more than just even one or two of these you are in an abusive relationship. The higher the number of questions checked the more serious the potential of the abuse. Carry this list with you on dates, keep a copy by your computer to refer to when chatting online it is a great tool! I used it (it worked) and I know of many other women that have.

Unfortunately, abusers can also be very intelligent and charming and can often weave elaborate lies. Think of the serial killers we hear about on the news. That is why it is SO very important to take one’s time to get to know the person you are interested in. Hopefully even a skilled liar will eventually hang himself or herself on a lie.

AND LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!

Note: This list is not comprehensive. Your particular situation may be somewhat different. If you feel you are being abused, seek professional counseling. Nothing in this checklist shoud be considered a substitute for counseling.


Topic: Who Should I Vote For In 2008?
Subject: Who Should I Vote For In 2008? - Posted: 2/17/2006 3:36:33 PM
We already have an ANGRY JERK in the White House.  2008 should be time for a change.



Topic: Who Should I Vote For In 2008?
Subject: Who Should I Vote For In 2008? - Posted: 2/17/2006 10:42:00 PM
I meant the V.P.
the President? The cunning sociopath in the White House?

NO COMMENT! 


Topic: ...but I LOVE HIM and WANT TO WORK IT OUT....
Subject: ...but I LOVE HIM and WANT TO WORK IT OUT.... - Posted: 2/18/2006 6:11:15 PM
"Now, we know love is a good thing. Good love involves exchanging respect, affection, time and support with someone special. It feels good and when it has rough spots the two parties work them through.

"But the harsh truth is that there are those among us who don‘t love. And when they pretend to, at our expense, that‘s a painful thing for the rest of us. They pretend to love because they know we‘ll love them back and they like the way it feels when we adore them and struggle to make a relationship with them work. It makes them feel special.

"But one day we look up and we see that we‘re the one putting in all the respect, affection, time and support, and they‘re taking it as well-deserved worship and hold out their hands for more.

"We try to work through rough spots. And with a narcissist that‘s where the REAL ouchies kick in.

"In rough spots good people look at the matter and review their own role in it as well as that of their partner. Narcissists are so desperate to always look perfect to themselves that the chances are zero of them ever considering they might have caused someone discomfort. So, if the two of you have a problem, guess whose fault it is?

"In rough spots good people look toward the goal of working it out and going on in better understanding. Narcissists would rather dump the whole thing and start fresh with someone else. If you‘re with a narcissist, your purpose in life is to reassure them that they‘re as perfect as they want to be. So, if you find that there‘s something imperfect about them and show it, as in your saying, "You hurt my feelings," "But you said you‘d call. I needed to hear from you," or "Why did you spend our whole night at the party talking to the pretty woman from work?", then you aren‘t doing your job and may need to be replaced with someone much weaker or more troubled. (Healthy, strong people defend their due and their boundaries in relationships. Narcissists hate that.)

"In rough spots, good people engage in logical though maybe passionate debates about the issues. They ask each other what they want and use that information to make each other and themselves happy and fulfilled. A narcissist may very well ask you what you want; they‘ll then use that information to manipulate you by threatening to withhold what you need and try to extract more attention and reassurance from you. And this is what you‘ll get in return: punishment for having challenged their perfection in the first place. Threats of abandonment. Accusations. Contempt.

"Does all this sound far-fetched and like a lame made-for-TV movie? Then you‘ve never had an encounter with a narcissist.

"If you‘re with a narcissist, do research. Write your feelings down. Get some therapy. Do whatever helps, but before you do anything, get out. Just get out. And don‘t look back. The view ain‘t pretty."

~~~~~
"Now you‘ve done it. Forced to choose between your own sanity, your future and sense of self, and the arbitrary, absurdly selfish whims of a mentally ill manipulator, you‘ve chosen the high road to peace and clear thinking. You‘ve broken up with the Narcissist.

"IT‘S NOT TOO LATE!!!! CALL HIM!!! Beg his forgiveness! Yes, he‘ll wiggle with glee at your showering him with this attention and taunt you with ambivalence or outright haughty insults as punishment for your taking control of your own life, but hang in there! You might still be able to resume your place in his whacked psychoworld!

"OK. I know. You miss him. We all know how that feels. But, now, let‘s take a peek at this ‘missing‘ thing.

"I assume we all agree that with Narcissists, we‘re generally dealing with two people: The guy he is, and the guy he pretended to be. You miss one of them. I take it we all know which one.

"Pretend Guy is gone. Deceased. This hurts. This really hurts. It needs to be mourned. In addition to the loss of Pretend Guy, you‘ve got mucho grande abuses heaped on you by Actual Guy. Topping off this pile of misery and trauma, Actual Guy and Pretend Guy inhabit the same body. Only another psycho wouldn‘t be thrown into a tailspin by the surreality of it all.

"When he calls you after the breakup, he sounds just like Pretend Guy! ‘You‘re alive!,‘ you think. ‘You‘re not dead! Yes, YOU are my true love! You‘re finally back! Oh, WHEN can I see you?‘

"Whoa, there, Sister. Let me spare you a tiny bit of hurt here by having us skip ahead to where he slams you again and you wake up in the harsh, cold world of Reality. Things just got even worse. Pretend Guy is still gone, Actual Guy is still abusing you, Pretend Guy and Actual Guy are still the same guy, AND now any baby steps into healing you might have made just got deleted into nothingness.

"And you wonder how he‘s feeling. Of course you do; not only are you sensitive and caring (Narcissists don‘t pick hardasses for partners), but you‘re conditioned to feel that way. The entire relationship was about him and his wants and needs. He literally trained you to think of little else. The real you, the pre-N you, doesn‘t want an abusive, mentally ill, inconsistent, selfish freak, ridiculous in his pandering for attention, chock full of contempt and inner conflicts that spill out and burn you. The real you wants a real partner.

"Hey," I hear one loyal heroine say. "Don‘t talk about him like that! He‘s NOT an abusive, selfish freak! He‘s.... Well, OK, he‘s an abusive, inconsistent, selfish, ridiculous, freak, but he‘s MY abusive, selfish freak!" Oh. Sorry. Hey, didn‘t I see you last week on Jerry Springer?

"For the rest of us, we need to heed the experiences of my online friend L. L‘s man came on strong. Charming. Wonderful. They married, and he immediately became selfish, cold, and ambivalent about their marriage but refused to leave; he was unempathic, wildly defensive and manipulative. He was a Narcissist. L knew something was morbidly wrong, but she stayed; he‘d grow distant, she‘d work to make it better. How long did this go on before she read the writing on the wall?

"Friend L stayed with her narcissist for three decades, until she ‘selfishly‘ left him to preserve the remaining shards of sanity she had. I wonder if she has any regrets about leaving and wishes she could have him back, or if she has any general advice for the rest of us. Let‘s ask her, shall we?

"Alex: Hey, L. Do you have any advice for the gals out here who are on the fence about their Narcissist partners?

"L: G E T! O U T! I WENT THROUGH YEARS OF HELL. I SHOULD HAVE LEFT THIRTY YEARS AGO. I WANT MY THIRTY YEARS BACK!!!

"Hmmm. Well, don‘t pay any attention to her. She should have stayed for 31 years; maybe THEN he would have changed. Besides, YOUR Narcissist is different! HE‘LL get better! He will! I swear! Please, just take him back and get him away from the rest of us...

"When we leave the Narcissist, it‘s because the abuse has gotten intolerable. Afterwards, when he calls us and pushes the buttons he knows extremely well, the temptation to give him another chance can be overwhelming. We‘re hurt; we‘re mad; we want to recoup some of our losses; we love him and want it to work; we just can‘t believe that anyone would be so warped as to hurt us that way, so we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All roads point to trying again with the N.

"Except for one. Reality. Truth. Knowledge, and honesty with yourself. Your peace. Your health. This road points in the opposite direction away from the Narcissist. Yes, it‘s an uphill road, but if you can invest in the climb the view from the top is spectacular.

"Does it seem like if you just invested enough love and time in the Narcissist, well, it just can‘t help but to get better?

"Our L spent 30 years wanting her narcissist to get better. I wonder if he started to get a little better around year 10. Or year 17. Year 23? Year 29? Is L. content that she tried hard enough to make the relationship work? Let‘s ask L.

"Alex: Hey, L, are you glad you spent 30 years in a ‘relationship‘ with a narcissist?

"L: AAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH....... AAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHH....

"Sorry, folks. Apparently I said something wrong. "
~~~~
from: SO... (the book) by Alexandra Nouri
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aanouri/book.html/

Topic: "Let‘s Talk About Us"
Subject: "Let‘s Talk About Us" - Posted: 2/18/2006 6:54:25 PM

Topic: So I was thinking about before.
Subject: So I was thinking about before. - Posted: 2/20/2006 7:50:33 AM
Leave it to TOW to invalidate the concerns here and try to normalize this guy‘s poor behavior and tell the poster NOT to listen to her gut feeling that something is wrong.

But what would one expect from a guy who has time to come on this board with a nick like TIREDOFWOMEN.

Topic: So I was thinking about before.
Subject: So I was thinking about before. - Posted: 2/20/2006 10:52:31 PM
TiredOfWomen wrote:

Quite frankly, your boyfriend sounds quite normal.  He has his interests, treats you fairly, and it seems to tick you off when he doesnt act the way you want him to.

Yeah...I think you have some control issues.  He doesnt call when you think he should, you get mad.  He doesnt respond to you when youre angry with him...and that makes you madder.  YOU are not in control of how he acts anymore than he is in control of how you act.  From your description he appears to be pretty level-headed and not given to overreacting...pretty much goes with the flow.  You seem to be the one making all the waves.

The only problem hes had is with you getting involved in your friends drama.  Thats totally understandable.  Personally, if I were in his shoes and you gave me an ultimatum such as having to go to counseling if I wanted to be with you, Id tell you to take a hike...and I think theres a pretty good possibility thats where this is going.  He doesnt like the drama of your friends life and hes probably not very open to having a bunch of drama in his own life.

Hes not a child.  You are not his mother.  You want to lay down an ultimatum, be prepared for the consequences.  They may not be what you want.



>>your boyfriend sounds quite normal.  He has his interests, treats you fairly, and it seems to tick you off when he doesnt act the way you want him to<<

INVALIDATION.  In an earlier post DLS spoke about his obsession with porn and his lack of interest in her.  Yet he expects her to cook & clean for him.

>>I think you have some control issues.... From your description he appears to be pretty level-headed and not given to overreacting...pretty much goes with the flow.  You seem to be the one making all the waves.<<

INVALIDATION - DLS has her concerns.  Whether or not she had control issues.  The relationship is lopsided and shes unhappy and shes fully entitled to be unhappy.  So many women are infected with the disease to please, IMHO - that they allow this sort of male talk to make them feel guilty about wanting something more than passivity from a guy.  Thats called SHAME DUMPING - making the complainant feel guilty about her complaints.

>>
The only problem hes had is with you getting involved in your friends drama.<<

DLS is a women and women do this with their friends.  So if we are to understand the MALE point of view, this guy could have been nicer about DLS‘ loyalty to her friend.

>>Personally, if I were in his shoes and you gave me an ultimatum such as having to go to counseling if I wanted to be with you, Id tell you to take a hike...and I think theres a pretty good possibility thats where this is going. <<

INVALIDATION, NEGATION...

>>You want to lay down an ultimatum, be prepared for the consequences.<<

From my point of view yes, maybe DLS is over reacting but dumping on her reaction to his NON-REACTIONS is hurtful and nasty.

>>Hes not a child.<<

Yet he is acting like one from what DLS has told us about him in this and earlier posts.

I call them as I see them.  It is your right to agree or not agree.  I dont like seeing  the concerns of members of this board MINIMIZED by anyone.  Male or female. I see no need to sanitize an opinion, TOW certainly didnt.

back to blogging,
LMWS

Topic: So I was thinking about before.
Subject: So I was thinking about before. - Posted: 2/21/2006 4:53:22 PM
since Chocoholic seems to know what I am, how I think and what I feel... I will leave the rest of the DIAGNOSING up to her.

DLS - back to your original post, when I SUGGESTED your bf might have a problem with DESTRUCTIVE Narcissism, I would be very curious as to what insights you have gained on that MSN group, if any. And how are you doing?

Welcome SS - I welcome your OPINIONS..... I hope you visit the blog and comment when you feel so inclined! 

Do I hate men? thinking about my Late father.... whose life was destroyed by a FEMALE NARCISSIST.... who happened to also be my mother.  The latter pretty much destroyed what she could of my life and I have spent the last 6 years rebuilding it.  Does that help with anyone who cares to DIAGNOSE me? 

"you put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you put your left foot in and you shake it all about...." - the hokey-pokey 

back to blogging,
LMWS

Topic: Characteristics That Might Identify A Potential Abuser
Subject: Characteristics That Might Identify A Potential Abuser - Posted: 2/22/2006 12:10:32 PM

FAMILY HISTORY: Has your partner reported being physically or psychologically abused as a child? Was your partner‘s mother abused? A family history of abuse is a significant predictor for a person to become an abuser as an adult.

JEALOUSY: Is your partner jealous when you spend time with friends and/or family? Does your partner constantly accuse you of flirting with others? Does he call you frequently during the day? An abuser will probably tell you that jealousy is a sign of love and concern. In fact, jealousy has nothing to do with love; it‘s a sign of possessiveness and lack of trust.

CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR: Does your partner become angry when you don‘t listen to his advice? Is your partner angry when you are a little late coming home from an appointment or shopping? Does he control all the money? Do you have to ask permission to leave the house? Are you afraid when your partner becomes angry with you? At first, abusers will explain that controlling behavior is motivated by their concern for their partner‘s safety or the need to make good decisions. Rather than expressing concern for the partner, controlling behavior shows a deep lack of respect for the partner. It fulfills the need of the abuser to dominate, rather than fulfil the needs of the victim.

QUICK INVOLVEMENT: Did your partner "sweep you off your feet?" Did your partner proclaim his or her love for you before the two of you had spent enough time together to get to know each other? Did your partner pressure you to commit to the relationship before you felt ready to do so? Were you made to feel guilty by your partner if you wanted to slow down your involvement with him? Many abused people dated or knew their abusers for less than six months before they were married, engaged, or living together.

ISOLATION: Is being with your family and friends "more trouble than it‘s worth" because of your partner‘s jealousy? Does he constantly criticize the people who support you or try to undermine your trust in them? Does he try to keep you from going to work or school? An abusive person will try to cut the victim off from all resources, especially friends and family. An abuser knows that the more contact a victim has with others, the more likely she is to defy the abuser or to leave.

BLAMES OTHERS FOR PROBLEMS: Does your partner blame you for his mistakes? Does your partner feel life is unfair and someone is out to get him? Does your partner find it difficult to take responsibility for his actions? Abusive people do not hold themselves accountable for the abuse they commit, and rarely take responsibility for their actions. After being blamed and criticized for everything she does, the victim will eventually internalize these false messages and begin to believe that she is responsible for ending the abuse that is committed against her.

HYPERSENSITIVITY: Does your partner perceive slight setbacks as personal attacks? Is your partner easily insulted? Does your partner lose his temper frequently and more easily than seems normal? Abusers typically have low self-esteem. Their self-confidence may be so fragile that even constructive criticism is seen as a threat.

CRUELTY TO ANIMALS OR CHILDREN: Does your partner seem insensitive to the pain and suffering of animals? Does he expect children to do things beyond their ability? Does he tease children until they cry? Insensitivity to children or animals is common in abusers because abusive people are generally not considerate of the feelings of others. 60% of men who beat the women they are with also beat their children.

"PLAYFUL" USE OF FORCE IN SEX: Does your partner like to throw you down and/or hold you down during sex? Does he want to act out fantasies during sex in which you are helpless? Does he ever try to manipulate you into having sex when you are not in the mood by using sulking or anger? Abusers enjoy having power over their partners, and sex is one way in which they can feel in control. Many abusers find the idea of rape exciting. Rape, like abuse, is about power over another person.

VERBAL ABUSE: Does your partner say things that are cruel and hurtful? Does he degrade you or put you down? Does he tell you that you are stupid, lazy or clumsy? The abuser wants his partner to be dependent on him/her. He will try to undermine his partner‘s self-confidence by putting her down, making fun of her, demeaning her, embarrassing her in public, and/or calling her names.

RIGID SEX ROLES: Does your partner expect you to serve him? Does he say that you must obey him in all things because you are a woman? Does he/she insist that you stay at home and discourage you from working? Abusers sometimes see women as inferior to men and unable to function as a whole person without a relationship. They accept this reasoning as an excuse to abuse and dominate their partners.

DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE: Are you confused by your abuser‘s "sudden" changes in mood? Is he extremely moody and prone to unexpected explosions of anger? Many women think that their abuser has some special mental problem because one minute he‘s nice, and the next he‘s exploding. Moodiness is typical of batterers, and it is related to other characteristics of abusers, such as hypersensitivity.

PAST BATTERING: Has your abuser admitted to hitting women in the past? He may say that they "made him do it." Have you heard from relatives or an ex-spouse/girlfriend that your partner is abusive? Situational circumstances do not make a person an abuser. A batterer is likely to beat any woman he is with if the relationship lasts long enough for the violence to begin.

BREAKING OR STRIKING OBJECTS: Does your partner destroy objects you value? Does he beat the table with his fists or throw objects around or near you? The abuser may use this behavior to punish his partner, but it is also intended to frighten the woman into submission. The abuser feels that he has the "right" to punish or frighten his partner.

ANY FORCE OR THREAT OF FORCE DURING AN ARGUMENT: Does your partner ever physically restrain you from leaving a room, push you or shove you? Does he ever hold you down or hold you against the wall saying something like "You are going to listen to me"? This is not only a form of control, it is an indication that your partner is willing to use force to maintain control over you. In abusive relationships, violence frequently escalates. It may begin with a push or a slap, but it can become much more violent!

http://www.amie.org/abuse/abuser.shtml


Topic: Depression: Before the Diagnosis
Subject: Depression: Before the Diagnosis - Posted: 2/23/2006 7:57:39 PM
by Kathy Brewis

Life before being diagnosed with a mental illness such as depression can be a very confusing time for both you and for your family and friends. In all likelihood there will be signs that there is a problem but if you are like most people, you wont be able to understand exactly what the problem is. Your thoughts and emotions are running rampant. Most of the time you feel out of control and you would be right in thinking that. Overall it is a time of misery for you and for the family and friends. Friends and family will feel helpless because they dont know how to help you.

For the person who is suffering from the illness, it is hard for them to understand that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Sometimes they just brush it aside as having a bad day. And women tend to blame their mood on their menstrual cycle. And while that may be true, there are other issues that could be causing the mood swings and other behavioral issues. Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between what a person may call a bad day and depression. The difference between just having a bad day and having depression is how long you have had your symptoms. You must have at least five of the listed symptoms for two weeks for a diagnosis of depression can be made. There are many signs and symptoms of depression. As I mentioned before, these signs and symptoms can be attributed to other causes such as having a stressful time in your life or an actual physical illness. It is important that you let your doctor check you out to make sure it is not a physical illness. The changes to their personality and behavior are often very subtle so it is very hard for the actual person experiencing depression to recognize that there is something wrong. Often it is the family and friends are the first to notice that something is amiss.

Often the person who is experiencing depression will experience physical symptoms before behavioral changes. From experience I know that this is very true. Around two or three years ago when my second episode of depression had bedidnt didnt know that it had begun. I was having physical symptoms that didnt respond to treatment. Later on, after further research on depression, I realized that I had been in the early stages of depression. Listed below are some of the physical signs of depression:

  • Tiredness, lack of energy
  • Headaches or any other head pain
  • Dizziness or faintness
  • Feeling of weakness in parts of the body
  • Muscle pains and aches
  • Stomach pains
  • Chest pains
  • Unexplained weight loss or weight gain
  • Difficulty or slowness in movement
  • Loss of sleep/ daytime sleepiness
Take in mind, though, that the symptoms can vary between children, adolescents and adults. The symptoms listed above are common symptoms experienced by adults.
  • Persistent sad or irritable mood
  • Tearful
  • Diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities
  • Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt
  • Diminished ability to think or concentrate
  • Recurrent thoughts of death
Again these symptoms can vary from every age group but two of the most common symptoms present in all age groups are:

  • Persistent sad or irritable mood
  • Diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities
Remember that at least five of these symptoms must be present for at least two weeks before a diagnosis of depression can be made.

The symptoms of depression can and will interfere with your daily activities. If you have experienced at least five of these symptoms for two weeks, then you need to make an appointment to see your doctor. If your depression is severe enough your doctor may want to refer you to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specializes in mental health.

Dont be afraid to see a psychiatrist. I know I was when I was first told that I needed to see one. There is still a stigma about having a mental illness so you may be in denial for awhile and probably wont seek treatment because you may be afraid of what others may think. You do not need to be ashamed of having depression. Depression is more common than what you think. Approximately 9.9 million American adults or 5% of the adult population has experienced depression. You have to remember that it is an illness just like heart disease and diabetes.


Topic: Borderline Personality Disorder
Subject: Borderline Personality Disorder - Posted: 2/23/2006 8:41:27 PM
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS KEY TO RECOVERY FROM BPD

A.J. Mahari

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), impacts the lives of those diagnosed with and those who care about them and/or love them, have to work with them, or share any time and space with them.

The traits that define what BPD actually is are found in the general population. That is to say, they are traits found in all of us. So, you might wonder, how come one person is diagnosed with BPD and the next isnt? It is a matter of the duration, frequency, and intensity of these traits and not just there mere presence that means the difference between a healthier personality or someone with a borderline personality.

Having a disordered personality is seriously impacting upon the life of those affected and all who they know and/or relate to.

Those with Borderline Personality Disorder, when in the active throes of BPD, and/or who havent yet undergone treatment (therapy) for BPD, more often than not, are adults without many of the necessary skills to cope with and to function in life in ways that are deemed appropriate.

A common and shared reality among those with BPD is that they have experienced an interruption in their emotional maturation process. It is this very interruption or inability to continue to develop emotionally, psychologically, for whatever reasons that those with BPD are unable to relate in ways that healthy and actually expected for whatever stage of life they are in and/or age they are at.

The results of this interrupted emotional maturation are the very self-destructive and (to others) crazy-making behaviour and attitudes seen and experienced from those with BPD.

Until one is treated the borderline may have little to no idea just how they are behaving or how they are impacting others. Much of their behaviour is driven by a lack of known self, a lot of pain which causes most with BPD to be very defensive at all costs. This coupled with an inability to honestly open up and be vulnerable and age-appropriate usually builds way more brick walls than it does bridges.

At the very same time those with BPD are in tremendous pain and need they act and speak in ways that drive others away more often than not. Many do not understand, that for example, their very profound fear of abandonment and/or loss will actually drive them act in ways that cause others to have to leave which they then experience as abandonment and loss.

The reasons why others do what they do in reaction to borderline behaviour is not clearly understood, if  understood at all, by many with BPD. This causes those with BPD to, in effect, perceive the results of others reactions to their own behaviour as being imposed upon them as if they are being attacked, abandoned, put down, abused and so forth.

The actual actions and self-defeating behaviour of those with BPD are projected out onto others who are, for all intents and purposes, experienced by those with BPD as merely extensions of themselves (until they get into therapy).

It is this lack of conscious understanding and awareness as to the individuation of self and other amidst a fog of lost true self that leaves borderlines acting and reacting out of their false selves and treating others truly as poorly as they usually treat themselves.

During the course of growing up borderline one does a lot of damage to self and to others. A lot of the pain that one is in causes a lot of pain in the lives of those who love and care about someone with BPD.

There comes a point in beginning to recover where what one held out and twisted upon others comes into a clear and very painful light - a light of realization that must then be transformed into the recognition of responsibility.

As important as learning to act, communicate, and behave in constructive and healthy ways that do not harm oneself or others is, there is nothing more important to actual recovery than learning to take personal responsibility for all choices made in ones life, conscious and/or subconscious choices that have hurt self and/or others.

In order to be able to recover one must develop a maturing sense of personal responsibility. It is not enough to just stop acting a certain way, or stop treating self and/or others a certain way.

You cannot have taken personal responsibility far enough if you havent included:

  1. stopping negative self-destructive and/or abusive acting in or acting out behaviour
  2. choosing healthier more mature ways of relating and thinking and acting
  3. apologizing for any and all hurtful things you brought to bear in the life of anyone else
  4. making amends to those you hurt wherever possible
  5. forgiving yourself for what you may have done to yourself (self-harm scars, lost opportunities and relationships etc)
  6. being humble enough to ask for the forgiveness of those that you treated poorly, hurt, and/or abused
  7. telling the truth being true to yourself and admitting how you treated those you hurt most who are or were in your life.
Taking personal responsibility for the pain that you have caused others is important. It is necessary to truly recover from BPD. It is all that can be offered to those you have hurt.

If you have BPD, and you have come to realize the grief you feel for actions and words youve hurled at others genuine remorse must then be expressed to others in a heartfelt apology. It must be offered without any expectation.

Most with BPD as they recover will see in the wake of their borderline years a path of destruction and devastation amid the populated reality of broken and lost relationships.

Apologizing, making amends, and taking personal responsibility for any and all pain youve caused others as the result of borderline behaviour must be genuine and offered freely. It is not something to offer anyone with any expectation of re-connecting.

If re-connection happens to be a possibility, it is best if it follows a period of congruent responsible behaviour after an apology is made.

If it is not even a remote possibility recovery rests on a much firmer foundation if you can still offer your apologies for what you regret having done to someone else.

This taking of personal responsibility also means that you do not stay stuck with old perceptions or focus on what may or may not have been done to you. You must truly let things go and grieve them and then take personal responsibility and apologize for any wrongs that you caused.

This is a gift to give oneself as well as any and all that one has hurt in the course of living a very difficult and painful way of life in the active throes of BPD.



Topic: Cheaters getting caught more, but is that grounds for divorce?
Subject: Cheaters getting caught more, but is that grounds for divorce? - Posted: 2/23/2006 10:14:14 PM
  TAMPA - Its the ultimate betrayal -- a husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend who strays from a relationship. Now more than ever, these cheaters are getting caught thanks to hi-tech cameras and private eyes.

Phil Testa is a bookkeeper in Tampa. Thats ironic, because he may have lost track of how many wives he had.

According to documents obtained by the ABC Action News Investigators, Testa was married to two women at the same time.

One marriage certificate says Testa got married in Las Vegas in May of 2004. But his divorce decree is dated November 29, 2004. So Phil Testa was married to two women for more than six months.

When confronted by Action News investigator Matthew Schwartz, Testa erroneously admitted the double marriage lasted "for about a month or so" before clamming up.

"Uh, I really dont wanna talk right now," he added.

But Testas first wife of 10 years -- a 46-year-old Tampa doctor who did not want to be identified -- had plenty to say.

"I was outraged," she recalled. "This is the person that I committed my life to, that was supposed to be a life partner, that I loved very, very much. And its the father of my child. But this is not the person I thought he was."

She and Testa were separated when he got married in Vegas. She learned about it after hiring private investigators.

"Without the investigators, I wouldnt have learned and been able to confirm that, to get documentation of it," she explained.

Rocky Rodriguez co-owns Tropical Surveillance and Investigations in Tampa, the firm hired by Testas wife. Rodriguez says the private eye business is booming because improved technology makes it easier to find cheaters.

Not only are video cameras better and smaller than ever, but investigators can check cell phone records, retrieve text messages, and websites visited on the internet.

"Its gotten so bad, we have boyfriends and girlfriends calling us and they havent even been married yet, checking on each other. So thats a pretty sad state," Rodriguez observed.

Private investigators charge about $70 to $80 an hour, plus gas mileage. Before hiring one, you should know that the evidence they come up with is usually not a major factor during divorce proceedings in Florida because Florida is a no-fault divorce state.

"Unless theres money being depleted, theyre just really not interested," explained Tampa divorce lawyer Regina Hunter. "The court doesnt really care if the husband or wife takes a trip to Jamaica with a boyfriend or girlfriend. Theyre really only concerned about whether or not they used marital funds to take that trip."

So what about Phil Testa? He admitted he was married to two women for several months but he was not charged with bigamy because Nevada law says there has to be the intent to marry for financial gain.

Meanwhile, his ex-wife said shes learned a lesson -- the hard way.

"I think that women should always investigate whoever theyre dating seriously or planning to marry beforehand," she offered. "I think that women need to know what theyre getting into, especially if theres children involved."

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/02/060222cheaters.shtml

(Thanks to http://fightbigamy.typepad.com for alerting LMWS to this story!)

Topic: Death threat to child
Subject: Death threat to child - Posted: 2/24/2006 9:16:57 PM

Topic: I Want To Play A Game
Subject: I Want To Play A Game - Posted: 2/24/2006 9:59:36 PM

Topic: Death threat to child
Subject: Death threat to child - Posted: 2/25/2006 9:32:57 AM
there may be a good reason the ADHD diagnosis and meds aren‘t working..... possible misdiagnosis:
~~~~~
Children with childhood or adolescence onset of conduct disorder, attention deficit disorder with or without hyperactivity (ADHD), and/or antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) are more predisposed to a life of criminal activity. These disorders are often co-morbid, which means they affect the occurrence of one or the other, and in the instances where a child has more than one disorder, the higher his inclination for adult criminality will be.

Evidence shows that 80 percent of variations of ADHD traits are passed down genetically. This is known to be true because the disorder has been passed down only between parent and child, but not to an adopted child (Pratt et al., 2002). In addition to this genetic influence, environment makes a difference in shaping a child‘s young mind. In their infancy, their environment consists almost entirely of their parents. Children tend to grow up with similar traits to their parents because at a young age they imitate their parent‘s behavior. Some parents may lack the psychological or physical skill to cope and deal with a difficult child, so they respond negatively and impulsively (Pratt et al., 2002). Even if the behavior is inappropriate, the child will learn to think it is.

In addition to ADHD being a trait that could either be developed in childhood or inherited from one parent or another, antisocial personality is seen shared among children and their parents. About two-thirds of delinquent boys have fathers with a criminal record. Europe has conducted studies that clearly showed that if a biological father is a criminal, it is very likely the son will be too (Siegel, & Senna, 2004). Not only is there a biological influence, but also an environmental one, because young boys look up to their fathers and want to become like them. They see their fathers‘ antisocial behavior as normal and as a desirable trait to have. To further back this idea, Ghodsian-Carpey and Baker (1987) performed studies on twins four and seven years old. They used mother ratings and observation checklists looking for characteristics such as rejection, teasing, insulting, verbal threats or yelling, and disobedience. They collected moderate to high scores to show a heritable influence on aggression in twins. The more specific a study is regarding its parental and self reports the more likely a higher twin correlation with heredity and aggression appears. On a side note, studies in adult male twins show insignificant rates of aggression (Rushton, Fulker, Neale, Nias, & Eysenck, 1986) and this study shows that not every child who has a behavioral disorder in their youth will continue displaying these traits into adulthood. Some boys learn to cope or adjust to socially acceptable ways.

The sooner ADHD is detected in a child, the more effective treatment will be in reducing these traits. Medicine (such as Ritalin) and behavioral therapy can help diminish negative traits of ADHD personality. ADHD is treated most often as a risk factor for antisocial/delinquent behavior, which in turn is an important risk factor for crime and delinquency. A plausible explanation for this may be that a trait of ADHD is the inability to control their behavior.

Characteristic Traits of ASPD

The main characteristic of an individual with antisocial personality disorder is that they have complete disregard of the rights of others and the rules of society. They seldom feel anxiety and do not feel guilt for their wrong-doings. They are also manipulative, irresponsible, and apathetic to others. Treatment for adults with this disorder is ineffective. The best thing to do is to catch it early on when they are children and the disorder is in its juvenile condition, known as conduct disorder. Individuals with ASPD also are impulsive and forget to plan ahead. This factor accounts for why ADHD may be diagnosed along with ASPD. Criminals share these traits so it is no wonder that adult psychopathic criminals, who usually are killers, display a severe form of antisocial behavior (Johansson, 2005).

Causes for ASPD

Most children could be considered "late starters" in that they engage in average levels of aggressive behavior in the early childhood years but proceed to more serious antisocial behavior in adolescence and adulthood (Schaeffer, 2003). Children are sensation seekers. This refers to individual preferences for varied sensations and experiences and the child‘s willingness to take physical and social risks to obtain that feeling out of the experiences. They are more likely to engage in risky behaviors to seek or enhance pleasure. All risk behaviors have short-term gains and potential long-term costs. Sensation seekers are more influenced to short-term benefits of the choices they make and the rewards that come out of them. Punishments or consideration of long term consequences is not a factor to these high sensation seekers (Cooper, 2003). This is true because of negative affect. Children who encounter negative experiences are encouraged to escape and seek for their preferable sensation, which makes short-term relief more attractive in spite of long-term consequences. These high sensation seeking children often are seen to have aggressive, conduct, or behavioral disorders because their actions are seen as inappropriate to the community.

Course of Development and Persistence

Moffitt (1993) stated that manifestations of antisocial behavior emerge very early in the life course and remain present thereafter, suggesting that childhood behaviors are links to adult criminality. Adolescent delinquency is merely an expositional stage in a continuous lifelong antisocial course. Factors in early childhood can usually explain the continuity of criminal or risky behaviors throughout an individual‘s troubled life. In some cases, individuals may be able to find ways to cope with their tendencies or adjust to their lifestyles or make significant changes. These changes mean that criminal offending almost completely or completely ceases by midlife. However, this does not mean that these individuals miraculously obtain pro-social tendencies after being antisocial for most of their lives. There are fewer arrests of psychopathic criminals at about age 40, but their antisocial personality traits persist in males until at least age 69.

Studies of male criminal careers show that they are least likely to start committing criminal activities after adolescence. Children with the highest likelihood to turn into adults with ASPD will establish a pattern by late adolescence (Moffitt, 1993a). For the children who don‘t establish this antisocial pattern by late adolescence, their disorder is considered adolescence-limited. In contrast with the life-course-persistent type, they lack consistency in their antisocial behavior across situations. For instance, they may follow school rules but abandon conventional standards outside of the school where they shoplift and use drugs with friends. For adolescence-limited youths there usually is a gradual decline in the momentum of their antisocial behavior, but many will fall prey to the same snares that maintain life-course behavior. Consequences of delinquency, which may include a drug habit, an incarceration, interrupted education, or a teen pregnancy, are snares that may keep an individual in a delinquent lifestyle.

Relation Between Childhood Disorders and Adult Criminality

Pajer (1998) established that the relationship between delinquent behavior among boys and criminal behavior among men is an excellent example of what developmental psychopathologists call "homotypic continuity." This accounts for a strong correlation between a disorder at one point in time and the same symptoms in the same or a similar disorder at a further point in time. Soderstrom (2004) tested psychiatric factors for associations with violent recidivism or relapse and lifetime history of aggression (LHA). Conduct disorder, ADHD, and ASPD were all associated with violent recidivism, where the individuals would have to readmit themselves to their psychologist or psychiatrist. This proves that once an individual is diagnosed with one or more of these behavioral disorders, it is very likely that they will continue to have it for most of their lives. Individuals who have both hyperactivity-impulsivity and conduct problems are the adults who will have a higher percentage of arrests later in life (Babinski, Hartsough, and Lambert, 1999). Personality models correlated with high LHA scores were paranoid personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. This shows that the majority of emotional or behavioral disorders have a strong relationship to aggression. In the overlap between childhood and adult onset disorders, co-morbid were seen between conduct disorder and bipolar disorder, and/or substance abuse, and/or anxiety disorders (Soderstrom, 2004). Hyperactivity and conduct disorder behavioral scores were highly correlated with crime and aggression.

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/panko.html
~~~~~~~~

COMMON MENTAL ILLNESSES AMONG JUVENILE OFFENDERS

Multiple diagnoses of mental illnesses ("comorbidity") are common among juvenile offenders; finding multiple disorders within a single adolescent is not uncommon. All 71 subjects in one study of seriously delinquent juveniles in detention were found to have more than one diagnosis of mental illness. Another study found that 63.3% of incarcerated juveniles had two or more diagnoses of mental illness, along with a significantly higher prevalence of psychotic symptoms than a matched community sample.

The most common diagnosis for boys is Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder, often with an additional diagnosis of ADHD.

Sadly, the multiple mental health needs of juvenile offenders are often unaddressed. For example, one follow-up study of 97 incarcerated male adolescents found that all but six had been rearrested as adults; most had never received treatment for their psychiatric disorders.

Identifying symptoms of mental illness that might interfere with functioning is necessary to rehabilitate the social, academic and occupational skills of juvenile offenders. Early identification and intervention is a priority, particularly with diagnoses that can lead to later offending. Boys tend to suffer from behavior disorders (Oppositional Defiant Disorder;Conduct Disorder) and ADHD, which often co-occur and contribute to delinquency. But these disorders can be treated with appropriate medication and/or appropriate psychosocial and behavioral interventions. These also can contribute significantly to delinquency but can be treated with medication and/or cognitive-behavioral treatment interventions. Additionally, youths suffering from psychotic symptoms, who are at risk for exploitation and assault while in correctional facilities as well as undue suffering, can be helped through appropriate psychiatric treatment.

CONDUCT DISORDER AND ATTENTION DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDER

Behaviors associated with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Conduct Disorder (CD) are frequently blamed for juvenile offending. The two disorders co-occur so often that it is difficult to determine how much each disorder contributes to delinquent behavior. Thirty to fifty percent of adolescents diagnosed with ADHD also receive a diagnosis of CD, though the two disorders differ substantially.

Several studies of incarcerated juveniles found that 87-91% had Conduct Disorder (CD), which is not surprising given that CD is characterized by persistent violation of age-appropriate societal norms or rules or a disregard for the rights of other individuals. Examples of CD symptoms include aggression towards people or animals, destruction of property, theft or running away. Antisocial adolescents are different from other adolescents in the ways they think, perceive relationships, and relate to others. Teens with CD have limited problem-solving strategies because they are inflexible in thinking about problems and possible solutions. Aggressive adolescents tend to see hostile intentions in ambiguous social interactions, and are likely to respond with unanticipated aggression without provocation. Children with a diagnosis of CD demonstrate poor social skills, such as a lack of empathy and a tendency to be impulsive, problems associated with the adult characteristics of psychopathy.

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is characterized by symptoms of inattention (e.g., forgetfulness or disorganization), hyperactivity (e.g., fidgeting or talking excessively), or impulsivity (e.g., interrupting others‘ conversations). Adolescents with ADHD exhibit poor school performance, reduced participation in extracurricular activities, and poor social relationships. Children and adolescents with ADHD have limited problem-solving skills and difficulty paying attention. ADHD in adults is associated with other mental illness, incarceration, job failures, and marital problems.

Earlier research suggested that these two syndromes arose from the same underlying condition, even though they had different symptoms, especially since both diagnoses have been found to predict juvenile and adult criminal offending. But more recent studies suggest that the two diagnoses represent two distinct disorders, with ADHD relating more closely to cognitive and academic problems and CD relating more closely to delinquency in adolescence and antisocial personality disorder in adulthood.

Several medications have been shown to be effective in treating adolescents with ADHD, including antidepressants, clonidine, neuroleptics, dextroamphetamine, methylphenidate, and pemoline. (These medications have not traditionally been prescribed for behaviors of CD, though methylphenidate has been shown to effectively reduce most CD symptoms.) Other effective treatments for ADHD include psychosocial interventions, such as classroom based behavior modification, social skills training, cognitive skills training, and parent training/home-based interventions. Using more than one of these approaches along with medication appears to produce better results than medication alone or a single intervention.

Treatment of CD has generally been limited to non-pharmacological interventions. The dysfunction associated with conduct disorder is an integral part of a larger context of living conditions, such as poor housing and education or ineffective parenting skills. Cognitively based interventions appear to reduce antisocial and aggressive behaviors. Parent management training (PMT) teaches parents to respond consistently to children and to interrupt maladaptive interactional habits that maintain aggressive or antisocial behavior. It has demonstrated short-term effectiveness in promoting prosocial behaviors in children and in reducing maladaptive behaviors through effective discipline practices. Functional Family Therapy, which expands parent management training to include family therapy, is also effective. In particular, Multisystemic Treatment (MST), which additionally includes interventions with offenders in school and community settings, has been shown to be a highly effective intervention for the delinquent behaviors associated with CD. Juvenile offending, regardless of diagnostic status, is best thought of as a potentially chronic disorder requiring multiple, persistent interventions across numerous settings, rather than an acute condition that resolves after a brief intervention.

ADHD may interfere with the acquisition of basic academic skills and general intellectual functioning. CD leads to acting out behaviors that may result in juvenile justice involvement. Early conduct problems associated with CD predict offending as early as age 12-13 and difficulties with social and behavioral requirements in school settings. Juveniles having both ADHD and CD have lower intellectual functioning and poorer academic skills and enter the juvenile justice system earlier. The presence of both disorders results in earlier delinquency and more negative outcomes.

Some juveniles have only ADHD symptoms; some have only CD symptoms; and some have both ADHD and CD symptoms. Therefore, careful examination of each symptom is necessary for a good diagnosis of either of these disorders. Correct diagnosis requires a careful review of the symptoms that may belong to one or the other diagnosis, or to both. Appropriate treatment for the presence of either disorder should include consideration of symptoms indicating the other disorder, and whether treatment for both disorders is indicated.

http://www.ilppp.virginia.edu/Juvenile_Forensic_Fact_Sheets/MHNeedsJuvOff.html

(please see the links provided for the professional references)

just a thought......
LMWS

Topic: This site
Subject: This site - Posted: 2/25/2006 9:40:45 AM
Use of the Internet to Harass or Disseminate Information

"It is my obligation to reveal the truth about the... Pentony Family of [personal home addresses listed]... Send greetings to your favorite Pentony... Rest assured that this website is completely legal and valid. It is an expression of free speech, totally protected by the First Amendment ... you will see your name plastered over every internet site imaginable... Claudia, have you seen the new letters which have been received at [home address listed]?"
        -- John Ruskie web site,
www.pentony.com

The Internet is a wonderful medium. Thanks to the wonders of the world wide web, like-minded people can meet from all over the world without regard to geographical constraints. A gardener from Florida can correspond with a gardener in China about optimal methods for propagating hibiscus, a knitter from Deluth can discuss color patterning with a weaver from the Hebrites Isles in northern Scotland, singles can meet each other over the net and assess whether they‘d like to meet in person for a date, and businesses can utilize any number of powerful search engines to find everything from widgets to service providers. Through the Internet, we can find like-minded people, encourage each other, provide emotional support through life‘s ups and downs, disseminate knowledge we find helpful to others so they can also achieve their goals, grow and become successful in life.

However, positive growth-oriented web sites aren‘t the only media flourishing on the Internet. The First Amendment protects even the most opprobrious sites from government censorship. With the exception of the Oregon anti-abortion group who posted the personal home addresses of physicians who performed abortions and encouraged abortion rights activists to kill them, the courts have been reluctant to permit any type of censorship. The recent rash of school shootings share one common factor -- all of the killers were adolescents who shared a fascination for violent video games and frequented hate web sites.

Through the Internet, dysfunctional, violent people can find one another and perpetuate their delusional schemes to retaliate against the society they feel has oppressed them. Prior to widespread use of the Internet, batterers had a difficult time finding one another. Communities looked with scorn upon the violent behavior of the batterer and, more importantly, told him so. Unable to find emotional support or reinforcement for his abusive and controlling ways, the batterer was forced to change his behavior or sulk silently in his home while society cast a baleful eye upon him. Today, however, this is not the case. With one click of the mouse, the batterer has the world at his fingertips.

If you type the words "Fathers Rights" into any search engine, you will reap a harvest of thousands of links to groups all over the country. One web site, http://www.hky.com/frn/frlinks.html, has links to 124 well organized Fathers Rights organizations. Although the majority of these web sites appear to appeal to responsible men who want to be good fathers to their children, the purpose of some are more obvious. Five openly state their primary agenda as eliminating child support. Five claim to provide pro se legal services for men. Two advocate for fighting restraining orders. Ten are openly misogynist.

However, to truly get inside the mind of most of the Father‘s Rights movement, you need to enter these web sights past the initial pro-family propaganda and read their newsletters, message boards, and the information they are teaching their constituents. A look at the true motives of the Father‘s Rights movement is truly frightening. Through the medium of the Internet, misogynists and batterers find each other, fuel each others rage, obtain emotional support and information for their vendettas, learn how to harass their victims without violating restraining orders by using the courts and state administrative agencies, disseminate information about dilatory pro-se litigation tactics aimed at allowing the batterer to subpoena his victim into court, put her on the stand, and publicly demean her under the guise of "cross-examination," and learn to legitimize their behavior to the judiciary and public as the actions of "a concerned father."

To get an idea of the extremes some Father‘s Rights advocates will pursue their vendetta, it is useful to go to the particularly egregious web site (http://www.pentony.com) belonging to a very disturbed individual named John Rushie. The vendetta began when his wife, Jane Pentony Rushie, filed for divorce. John Rushie failed to pay $6,900 in child support before his ex-wife‘s untimely death. Jane‘s sister, Claudia, an attorney, was appointed guardian by her sister and attempted to collect the back child support on her nephews behalf. In response, John Rushie founded the Pentony web site alleging that the entire Pentony family, a family consisting of established professionals and businesspeople, "lie under oath... have committed felonies... are addicted to a wide range of costly substances, including uppers, downers, diet pills, pot, and especially alcohol... are racists... cheat on their taxes... [and] abuse their children" (John Rushie, http://www.pentony.com/homecnt.stm). Like most Father‘s Rights advocates, Rushie has ample "evidence" against the Pentony family -- digital copies of court documents which, divorced from all context, he claims support his case. The "evidence" doesn‘t appear to have any connection to his claims. Some of the documents have suspicious squiggle marks through them, indicative that they may have been digitally altered.

One piece of "evidence" is a scanned copy of a business sized white window envelope with the word "Jane" written on it (http://www.pentony.com/scans.htm). Rushie claims this is "proof" that Jane was converting his paychecks worth thousands of dollars each after the divorce and therefore he doesn‘t owe child support. Although most people would notice if a paycheck worth a thousand dollars was missing, no mention of legal action for the missing paychecks is made. A scanned photograph of an attractive but modest split-level home in Pennsylvania alludes that his ex-wife‘s father‘s home is worth more than the $153,000 tax assessment and brags "It‘s a good thing that I am a good citizen... I feel it my duty to advise the tax collectors that [home address] needs to be reappraised" (http://www.pentony.com/scans.htm). He threatens "we have obtained information that really shows what you monsters are all about ... so far you have cost us $80,000 but we will never stop our quest for honesty and justice... hundreds of letters that include the false allegations are currently being mailed out so everyone can know the facts ... we have been in contact with many neighbors .. who will testify against you" (http://www.pentony.com/main5.htm). A blatantly digitally altered lewd photo purporting to be Claudia Pentony tops a special page ranting about her "cold distant father and drugged mother" and "several tries... to pass the bar exam." He lists her home address, encourages other Father‘s Rights advocates to send hate mail, and alludes "it is unfortunate that Claudia was so abused as a child. She is continuing the family tradition of beating her children and should be stopped. Authorities are investigating complaints of abuse" (http://www.pentony.com/slide17.htm). Not content to contain his vendetta against the sister appointed guardian by his deceased ex-wife, Rushie expands his vendetta to his deceased ex-wife‘s entire family. Bizarre diatribes lambast the extended Pentony family. Readers are encouraged to send hate mail to her elderly parents home address in Florida along with other family members. The web site promises more of this harassment with the message "you will see your name plastered over every internet site imaginable" (http://www.pentony.com/main5.htm).

(snip)

Vindictive Custody/Visitation Suits

Who can forget when Marcia Clark, prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson case, was forced to cut her work hours because her opportunistic husband, computer engineer Gorden Clark, tried to use his successful wife‘s career as evidence as her unfitness as a parent?

Ellen Zucker, a Cambridge (Massachusetts) lawyer and national board member of the National Organization for Women stated "When women do the same kind of work we expect men to do, people say she‘s an unfit mother. Courts are condemning women for looking out for their own economic survival." (Clark Case Sparks Debate on Work and Gender Roles, Peter S. Canellos, the Boston Globe, March 4, 1995).

A custody battle is the quintessential power struggle between men and women. It‘s about who controls a woman‘s mind and body. It‘s also about who gets to control the future. Children are the future. Men think of children as the necessary chains to keep wives from flying away. If they fly away anyway, they transfer their needs to their children. (Phyllis Chesler, Mother‘s on Trial: The Battle for Children and Custody, p. 449 (1986).

It‘s a new way of roping women to the home: threaten to take the children away if the woman works as hard as a man (Clark Case Sparks Debate on Work and Gender Roles, Peter S. Canellos, the Boston Globe, March 4, 1995).

Today‘s mother‘s usually take the bigger economic hit in a divorce -- an average 30 percent decline in their standard of living. Yet mothers may lose custody because they have to work to support the kids. (What Every Woman Should Know About Divorce and Custody, Sally Abrahms and Gayle Rosenwald Smith, Perigree Books, 199__).

Violent men will likely seek new means of control when old ones fail. Batterers use the legal system as a new arena of combat when they seek to keep their lives from leaving. (Lenore E.A. Walker & Glenace E. Edwall, Domestic Violence and Determination of Visitation and Custody in Divorce, p. 130 (1987)).

The custody action is part of an ongoing attempt, through physical violence, intimidation, and legal manipulation, to force the woman to make concessions or return to the abusive partner.

The judges know these men as "court regulars". Perpetually angry, perpetually persecuted, years after the divorce their lives still revolve around the ex-wife‘s latest transgression. For example, Paul Clements, founder of Dads Against Divorce Discrimination (Massachusetts) estimated that in three years he had been in court 24 times, six of those times on visitation and vacation issues alone. (After Divorce, A Father‘s Fury, Barbara Canton, the Boston Globe, August 12, 1993).

Another frivolous custody case is that of Beth McDonough of South Boston, whose four-year divorce was an endless litany hundreds of motions, hearings, orders, contempts, and attempted pre-trial hearings. Justice Anthony R. Nesi of Suffolk Probate and Family Court noted in his findings that "the papers, excluding over sixty trial exhibits, fill over one large court filing tin" and that her "husbands huge attorney fees are due, in part, to his inability to accept any thing less than victory." Ms. McDonough stated "the court process... made me emotionally bankrupt." (The Militant Divorcee, Linda Matchan, the Boston Globe, December 15, 1998).

In Lenore Weitzman‘s study of divorce, one third of women interviewed reported their husbands threatened to seek custody as a ploy in post-separation negotions. "Men see custody as a part of a total package of divorce issues; women are more likely to consider custody on an altogether different level -- it is something they simply cannot negotiate about because it is too important -- it is worth any price." (Lenore Weitzman, The Divorce Revolution, p. 311 (1985).

David Cherney, president of the Massachusetts chapter of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, describes litigation as a symbolic gesture to regain control of the ex-wife. "You see custody battles launched not for the child‘s best interests, but to exploit weakness in the spouse. I‘ve seen fathers who travel three days a week and clearly have no ability to care for their kids on a daily basis, yet they‘ll file for full custody, either to get leverage or put the fear of God in the mother, or to get her to accede to his demands on the financial end." (The Militant Divorcee, Linda Matchan, the Boston Globe, December 15, 1998).

Cases are often endlessly delayed by a spouses stalling tactics and by pro-se spouse‘s (or their attorney) riling them in court in an attempt to prove they are hot-tempered and thus unfit as parents. "Despite the perception that mothers always win custody cases, studies show that fathers who contest custody win sole or joint custody in 40 to 70 percent of cases." (Congressional findings, VAWA proposed 1999 amendments, H.R. 357, Title II, s. 201 (16).

To understand why a woman may remain with an abusive male long after it becomes apparent the relationship is unhealthy, one must first understand the psychological impact being responsible for helpless human beings has upon a woman. The wearing, repetitious labor of motherhood becomes part of the cycle of survival in ways we have trouble recognizing. The constant work and need create a wearing down of the self, an erosion of borders that represents not confusion but exhaustion -- a thirst for solace and protection as well as individuation. The constant demands of children, especially in an unstable situation, may prove exhausting. Women experience this blurring of borders, this need to subject their own needs to others, even when violence is not present. The sense of physical responsibility to the children -- inevitably, economic responsibility -- is a major constraint. Women and children suffer severe economic consequences upon divorce. Mothers must be very desperate to walk out without knowing how they will all survive. (Martha R. Mahoney, Legal Images of Battered Women: Redefining the Issue of Separation, 90 Mich. L. Rev. 1, p. 21, 23 (1991)).

"According to a 1996 report by the American Psychological Association, which Congress views as authoritative on matters of domestic violence and child custody and visitation determinations, custody and visitation disputes are more frequent when there is a history of domestic violence. Further, fathers who batter mothers are twice as likely to seek sole custody of their children and they may misuse the legal system as a forum for continuing abuse through harassing and retaliatory legal actions." (Congressional findings, VAWA proposed 1999 amendments, H.R. 357, Title II, s. 201 (9)).

Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress

"The plaintiff in this action moves this Honorable Court� to allow Mr. Corey sufficient time to cross-examine Ms. Fantucchio [the wife]. A years wroth [sic] of communication has been prevented by a 209A restraining order and one day is not enough time to provide information to the court."
        -- Fantucchio v. Corey, Norfolk Probate & Family Court (Mass), 95D1230 (motion, August 12, 1996).

Besides the visible, physical impact of wounds created by battering tactics endorsed by the Father‘s Right‘s movement, there are serious psychological repercussions as well. Reactions of shock, denial, withdrawel, confusion, psychological numbing, and fear are common. The long term effects of abuse include fear, anxiety, fatigue, sleeping and eating disturbances, intense startle reactions, and physical complaints. (Council on Scientific Affairs, American Medical Association, Violence Against Women: Relevance for Medical Practitioners, 267 JAMA 3184, 3184 (1992)). Perceptions of vulnerability, loss, betrayal and hopelessness are more severe for intimate violence victims than for victims of stranger assaults because of their relationship with the abuser. Victims of intimate violence and stalking can exhibit symptoms consistent with Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. (Kathleen McAnaney et al., From Imprudence to Crime: Anti-Stalking Laws, 68 Notre Dame L. Rev. 819, 832-38 (1993)).

Behavior, such as that described by Victoria D, is extreme, outrageous conduct beyond the bounds a decent society can tolerate specifically intending to cause harm to the target. The intolerable behavior is psychological warfare which is specifically taught to members of Father�s Rights group to maintain contact beyond a restraining order and batter the victim legally. It is extremely frustrating for a victim to be told to hire a lawyer and sue the batterer for intentional inflection of emotional distress. She doesn�t need protection 7 or 9 years down the line when a civil court gets around to looking at the batterer�s behavior, nor does she have the money to hire an attorney, nor will money damages make her whole. She just wants the batterer to go away and leave her alone.

Unfortunately, the courts don�t take a victim�s pleas to stop the harassment of a continuous barrage of frivolous litigation by a batterer. In the case of Larkin v. Ayer, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court declined to decide whether physical manifestations of emotional harm resulting in the aggravation of a preexisting medical condition can constitute "abuse."

The Court found that the complainant‘s testimony at a 209A hearing that petitioner‘s conduct in sending the complainant notices of future lawsuits and court proceedings aggravated her ulcers, was insufficient to warrant an extension of a 209A order since the conduct did not rise to the level of "imminent serious physical harm." (Larkin v. Ayer Division of One District Court Department, 425 Mass. 1020 (1997)). What is disturbing about this case is the fact that the batterer engaged in other behavior similar to that described by the victim Victoria D. earlier in this paper. Very few victims sue their batterers. In fact, in most states, they can�t since most of the victims are former spouses and spouses are unable to sue a batterer for intentional inflection of emotional distress. Only two states, Florida and another, have recently changed their laws to allow civil recovery of deliberate misconduct during a divorce.

To dispel the notion that the story of Victoria D. is an isolated case, and also to help the reader see the connection between this behavior and the information available through the internet and group meetings of the Father�s Rights movement, we will look at the divorce case of former Weymouth School Committee member and Fatherhood Coalition legislative director Paul Corey. (Fantucchio v. Corey, Norfolk Probate & Family Court (Mass), 95D1230-D1). The 54-page finding of fact and memorandum of law written by Judge Koppleman reads like a Steven King novel (Findings of Fact, July 16, 1997). We will discuss the case ad naseum because it typifies the batterers the Father�s Rights movement is trying to portray sympathetically in the media.

On July 20, 1995, after 10 years of marriage, 16 years total living together, four children and several failed attempts at marriage, Katherine Fantucchio Corey filed for divorce. On July 25th, the husband attempted to obstruct Catherine from leaving the home first by physical force, then by removing her keys and all identifying registrations from her car, then by taking her wallet and credit cards. Catherine was forced to obtain rides to work from her sister. On July 27th, she emerged from work to find the husband waiting for her with the three younger children. Instead of taking her home, he ignored her pleas and forced her to go to Wareham (about a 40 minute drive away), screaming at her in front of the four children until, in desperation, Catherine tried to make her escape by jumping out of the car (presumably as it slowed). He dragged her back in, and she crawled into the back seat to escape him and comfort the children while he proceeded to scream at her for the entire 40 minute drive that all of their problems were her fault.

On August 2, 1995, Catherine obtained a 209A restraining order, which she voluntarily allowed to expire on August 9th hoping the husband would stop his controlling conduct and because he was caring for the children while she was working during the day. This arrangement, however, became problematic because the husband, on several occasions, failed to arrive to care for the children and failed to notify Catherine he wasn�t coming.

Corey fired several lawyers early in the divorce process when they refused to file some of his motions, then chose to proceed as a pro se litigant utilizing advice garnered from the group The Fatherhood Coalition (Boston) and various Father�s Rights web sites.

On September 13, 1995, the husband once again prevented Catherine for leaving for work and blocked her egress from the house, cornering her in the bathroom in front of the middle son. When she tried to escape to her car, the husband pulled her keys out of the ignition, breaking the key ring, forcing his way into the car, badgering her for 40 minutes and spewing the contents of her purse about the car. The next day the Catherine obtained another restraining order, which was continued. That same day, the husband filed his own restraining order, submitting a three-page affidavit claiming:

-- that he was in fear for his life;
-- that he was in fear for the children�s lives;
-- that his wife was capable of harming the children;
-- that the wife attempted suicide in front of the two minor children;
-- that the wife was not feeding the wife nutritious meals;
-- that in her care all four of the children have sustained serious injuries;
-- that the stress level in her work was intolerable, and
-- that she was only capable of working 32 hours per week instead of the usual 40 hours;
-- that the wife refused to seek medical help for severe PMS problems,
-- which were chronic since the birth of their youngest child;
-- that the wife�s mother had "female" troubles leading to a hysterectomy;
-- that the wife needs help, and
-- that he requests that the court help the children "by getting them away from her" and
-- that the wife is not in control of her faculties.

The husband‘s request for entry of a restraining order against the wife was denied. The Children and the Law program at Mass General Hospital was appointed guardian ad litem to evaluate the current parenting capacity of each parent and make recommendations to the court.

In March of 1996, Dr. Julia Reade concluded, and the trial judge found, that Catherine was an adequate and loving mother, was not suicidal and did not suffer from post-partum depression, and did not suffer from "perimenopause" syndrome. The trial judge also found that "although the husband showed no evidence of major mental illness or cognitive deficit, he did demonstrate substantial difficulty in the following areas of functioning:

-- he demonstrated little capacity to appreciate the perspective of another person;
-- he had a tendency to see himself as a blameless victim, and
-- to deny his own provocative behavior;
-- he was self-preoccupied, and demonstrated a passive-aggressive interpersonal style;
-- he had trouble accepting his wife as a separate individual who is sincere in her request for a divorce.

In the Findings of Fact, item 28, Judge Koppleman wrote that "after his eviction from the marital home, the husband embarked upon an unremitting campaign to harass and intimidate the wife as set forth below:"

-- The husband refused to turn over household bills to the wife, the result of which she was threatened with loss of services.

-- Every Monday during the fall of 1995 and through most of the winter, the husband sorted through the wife�s trash which she had left on the sidewalk in front of the house (presumably looking for documents which would either hurt her case, or bolster his own).

-- The husband repeatedly entered the house unannounced in violation of an existing 209A restraining order.

-- On Thanksgiving Day 1995, the husband again entered the wife�s residence unannounced and uninvited, which finally prompted her to telephone the police. When the police arrived, the husband began to cry. The wife declined to press charges against the husband for violating the restraining order because she was reluctant to have the four minor children observe him being arrested in their home.

-- The husband refused to comply with a visitation schedule, and typically appeared at the home unannounced with no advance notice to the wife.

-- In April of 1996, the husband filed a small claim action against the wife in the Quincy District Court seeking treble damages in regard to a dispute regarding their telephone.

-- On June 14, 1996, the husband filed a second small claim action against the wife in the Quincy District Court alleging that she had breached a contract by refusing to appear in a two-person band with him during a wedding scheduled for April, notwithstanding the fact that a 209A restraining order was in effect;

-- At the time of the divorce hearing, the husband announced that he was planning to file three additional small claims actions against the wife, thereby increasing his lawsuits filed against her to five.

-- In December of 1995, the wife left her house to bring the children to the daycare provider�s house. On that occasion she observed the husband parked directly across the street taking photographs. This incident took place, notwithstanding that a 209A restraining order had been entered against the husband.

-- During the marriage, the husband took it upon himself to monitor the wife�s telephone conversations with her girlfriends, following which he made unsolicited remarks concerning said conversations.

Not only did Paul Corey harass and intimidate his wife, he also harassed and intimidate the children�s daycare providers.

-- In the fall of 1995, Catherine received a sobbing telephone call at work from the youngest daughter�s preschool teacher. Apparently the husband had requested that the Braintree police investigate his allegations of abuse. Following this incident, the daycare provider told the wife she felt too harassed to continue caring for the children and Catherine had to find another daycare provider.

-- The second daycare provider also resigned because she was receiving daily telephone calls from the husband inquiring about her care of the children and because the husband had requested the Weymouth Police and the Office for Children investigate her home because she was not a licensed daycare provider.

-- The third daycare provider, Jackie, had bogus allegations lodged against her for welfare fraud (for a period in the past when she had collected welfare) and with the Office for Children alleging that she was abusing the children and over the legal limit.

Corey�s motion of April 3, 1996 where he once again filed for custody alleges that "a steady stream of men arrive� all hours of the day or night, stay for a few minutes, then leave" (she was having her house renovated) and numerous other false allegations.

On February 12, 1996, the wife filed a motion for contempt because the husband had refused to pay his $83 per week (for four children under the age of 10) child support; had liquidated joint certificates of deposits, had made derogatory comments in front of the children, and had failed to exercise visitation on various weekends. She had also filed an earlier motion requesting that the four of the five properties acquired during the marriage be liquidated and divided between the parties because she was unable to meet her mortgage payments and living expenses due to the husband�s refusal to pay his child support. Over the next several months, Catherine had to file more motions for contempt as the husband still refused to pay the child support and the mortgage on the marital home kept falling into arrears.

On June 20, 1996, the husband liquidated the joint marital account containing $25,000. The court ordered that all of the husband‘s tools and equipment remaining in the marital home be sold to pay the arrearage on the mortgage, as well as two of the properties.

In March of 1997 It was discovered that the husband had filed "mechanics liens" against those properties in an attempt to block the sale by the Special Master appointed by the court. Those liens were discharged as nonmeritorious.

On May 12, 1997, the husband filed his own complaint for contempt alleging that the sale of the personal property authorized by the court was improper, that the wife had been irresponsibly handling her day-to-day expenses, and that she has been living a lifestyle "far in excess of the lifestyle the couple maintained while living together. He also alleged that Catherine and her attorney had "conspired to deliberately refuse to pay the mortgage on the marital residence" in order to create the appearance that they had to liquidate more of the husbands personal property. He demanded that the wife be ordered to produce an accounting describing the items sold, that she account for how she determined pricing for the items, and that the court hold her in contempt and sanction her.

Perhaps the crme-de-la-crme of motions, however, was the "Complaint for Affirmation of the Marriage" (a boilerplate form which can be found at several of the Father�s Rights websites) Corey filed on June 19, 1996 where he alleged that:

-- the children had suffered numerous physical injuries in the wife�s care;

-- the wife had irresponsibly left the children in the care of incompetent care providers, when the husband was available to care for their needs;

-- "there are no irreconcilable differences, nor is there an irretrievable breakdown of any kind."

-- The wife had destroyed the husbands business, forcing him to make a career change in order to be able to support wife and family;

-- "The husband refuses to assent to an action for divorce due to the wording of the religious/civil Contract Covenant, including, but not limited to, the husband�s religious beliefs forbidding divorce when children are involved with Covenant-Contract valid until death of the parties." [note: this was Paul Corey�s second marriage]

-- The lack of curtains on the windows in the brand new home that the husband designed and had built for her, doing much of the work himself, does not constitute a sufficient reason for abandoning said husband,

-- "The wife�s unilateral no-fault divorce action is contested on First Amendment and breach of contract grounds."

-- "The civil court cannot compel the husband to accept the wife�s no-fault action, filed without his knowledge and consent, as this would constitute coercion, violation of a First Amendment freedom of exercise of religion clause, violation of benevolent neutrality of the civil court in a religious matter, and a Federal Court issue."

-- "The wife�s on-going medical and mental health conditions do not constitute a valid reason for the husband to abandon the marriage commitment which was entered into in sickness or in health."

It is an interesting side note that, while he was drafting his complaint for marriage, the husband (who claimed he was unable to work or pay child support) found time to draft legislation prohibiting no-fault divorces where the husband refused to give the wife permission unless the court made a decision that the marriage could not be saved. He found the time to gather the signatures necessary to force Senator Hedlund (Weymouth) to introduce the bill into the Massachusetts legislature, where it died. In connection with his complaint for affirmation of the marriage, the husband requested that the court:

-- Affirm the marriage "with the husband stating� that there is no irretrievable breakdown, because he says ther is not, and that he is still true to his marital vow and contract."

-- "Recognize the husband�s rights duly and solemnly granted to him by the Unites States Constitution, which rights have been removed in the proceedings � including, but not limited to, rights granted under Amendments Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, and Fourteen."

-- "Recognize the children�s and the husband�s rights individually and severally under the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts."

-- "Recognize the rights of the children to live in a peaceful, intact family, and the inalienable rights of those children supercede the whimsical desires, frivolous plans and heinous schemes of their mother."

-- Order the wife to pay the husband sufficient monies for his support, including $4250 immediately to pay his graduate school tuition for the summer session of 1996.

After the court refused to afford him the relief he requested, the husband appealed to a single justice of the Appeals Court, which was denied.

The actual divorce trial, which lasted 13 days, was conducted by Corey pro-se. Most of the trial consisted of Catherine being forced to take the stand for cross-examination while Corey badgered her. Corey produced an "expert" witness, Dr. Charlotte Richards, to testify on his behalf to shore up his claim that Catherine from "perimenopause" (a questionable "syndrome" which supposedly occurs in the decade before the onset of menopause which Corey claims made Catherine mentally unstable) even though Dr. Richards had never met Catherine, never had access to her medical records, and had never obtained the necessary blood work to make the diagnosis of the wife. There are also numerous questionable motions that were filed during the 13 day trial, including one that demands the court refer the parties for forced marital counseling (motion, August 5, 1996) and another ordering a new GAL report alleging Dr. Kenneth Herman had lied about him (also August 5, 1996).

At last, after Paul Corey got caught attempting to steal paperwork from the courthouse docket, the court ordered that he couldn�t have access to his file and also sanctioned him for abuse of process, finding that his numerous frivolous motions were aimed solely at forcing the wife to lose numerous days out of work, presumably so she would be economically dependent on him, and to harass her.

This tendency to attack the woman�s livelihood has recently been recognized by Congress:

"The Department of Justice estimates that intimate partners commit more than 1,000,000 violent crimes against women every year. American workers who have been victims of crime too often suffer adverse consequences in the workplace as a result of their experiences as crime victims. Crime victims are particularly vulnerable to changes in employment, pay, and benefits as a result of their victimizations, and are, therefore, in need of legal protection. Three quarters of battered women who work were harassed by telephone by their abuser at work. Nearly 50 percent of rape victims lose their employment or are forced to quit their jobs following the crime, and one quarter of bettered women surveyed have lost a job due in part to the effects of domestic violence.

The availability of economic support is a critical factor in battered women‘s ability to leave abusive situations that threaten them and their children, and over half of battered women surveyed stayed with their batterers because they lacked resources to support themselves with their children. Employers pay between $3,000,000,000 and $5,000,000,000 annually to cover the cost of crimes against employees and their families. Surveys of business executives and corporate security directors also underscore the heavy toll that workplace violence takes on American women, businesses, and interstate commerce. 94 percent of corporate security and safety directors at companies nationwide rank domestic violence as a high-risk security problem. 49 percent of senior executives recently surveyed said domestic violence has a harmful effect on their company‘s productivity, 47 percent said domestic violence negatively affects attendance, and 44 percent said domestic violence increases health care costs.

Only 12 states have enacted statutes forbidding employers from taking adverse action against employees who have been victims of crime and must participate in the criminal justice process during working hours, and no State explicitly protects crime victims from other adverse action which may result from their status as crime victims. Existing federal law neither expressly authorizes battered women to take leave form work to seek legal assistance and redress, counseling, or assistance with safety planning activities, nor does it protect crime victims from retaliation, discharge, or other workplace penalties that may result from their status as crime victims." (Congressional findings, VAWA proposed 1999 amendments, H.R. 357, Title II, s. 701.)

Even after that date, the pleas disguised as motions to the court continued, demanding that he be allowed to confront Catherine in the courtroom. Despite his later arrest for numerous violations of the restraining order, civil commitment, spat being whisked "underground" by the Fatherhood Coalition, extensive media hype painting him as a "victim" of the "domestic violence witch hunt" (including a front-page article in the Boston Globe on December 12, 1997), criminal charges arising for assaulting and harassing a subsequent female intimate, and his eventual plea-bargain of "no contest" in exchange for getting counseling, Paul Corey�s pleas to the court to force Catherine to stay with him or punish her for leaving continued 3 years after the divorce. It is sad that Mr. Corey�s and the Father�s Rights movements true motive, that of utilizing the court to maintain contact with an estranged wife or former girlfriend, is spelled out by his own hand in his motion of August 12, 1996,

"The plaintiff in this action moves this Honorable Court� to allow Mr. Corey sufficient time to cross-examine Ms. Fantucchio [the wife]. A years wroth of communication has been prevented by a 209A restraining order and one day is not enough time to provide information to the court." (Motion, August 12, 1996).

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/FRtactic.html#vindictive


Topic: miss conduct in chat
Subject: miss conduct in chat - Posted: 2/25/2006 8:42:21 PM
seems the gentlemen are just going to sit there and show everyone how many expletives there are for women and genitalia.



Topic: Chat Room
Subject: Chat Room - Posted: 2/25/2006 8:54:51 PM
zoomshare.com will give you a free chat room.  Check them out.  I don‘t know how reliable they are though.


Topic: 5 Things You SHOULDN‘T DO If He‘s Cheating on You
Subject: 5 Things You SHOULDN‘T DO If He‘s Cheating on You - Posted: 2/26/2006 12:23:26 PM

by: Ruth Houston

This may be the most important article youll read about dealing with your husbands affair. Theres plenty of information available on what to do if your husband is cheating. But very little has been written about the things you shouldnt do.

Your husband is cheating. Youre not sure what to do. Before wrestling with that decision, lets focus first on what you SHOULDNT do. Most women react blindly when they find out their husbands are having an affair. They let fear, anger, hurt, or a desire for revenge compel them to do things they later regret -- things which make it difficult or impossible to implement any worthwhile infidelity advice they may later receive.

This article will keep you from making a mistake that could sabotage the course of action you eventually decide to take. Regardless of whether you decide to leave your husband or stay with him and try to work things out, doing the wrong thing at the outset can make a bad situation worse. Lets look at 5 key things you SHOULDNT do and examine the reasons why.

1. Dont put him out or leave him - yet.

Instead of your first move, putting your husband out or leaving him should be your last resort. You may eventually decide to do this, but for now, its the worst thing you can do. Right now you need to keep a close eye on whats going on. Itll be easier to do that if the two of you are still living under the same roof. If you put him out or leave, youll be hard-pressed to know what hes doing, short of hiring an investigator. As long as youre still together, you can keep your finger on the pulse of his affair and gather some much-needed facts. Theres a lot you need to know about the situation before you can make an intelligent decision about what to do. Continue monitoring your husbands activities, attitude, the frequency of his contact with his lover and any other details concerning his affair. Write everything down in a journal for future use. Also bear in mind that as long as hes still there, you have a chance to work things out.

2. Dont tell the whole world about his infidelity.

Its natural to want to confide in somebody about your husbands affair, or rally friends and family to your side. But be very cautious about who you tell. The female friend you confide in could turn out to be the other woman. Make sure youre confiding in someone you know you can trust. Confiding in a male friend about your husbands affair could complicate the situation. There are men out there who take advantage of women when theyre in a vulnerable state. Telling your husbands friends or family may not produce the results you want. They might not take you seriously, or they may lie, make excuses for him, take his side, or warn him to cover his tracks. Confiding in your own family and friends can eventually come back to haunt you. Elephants arent the only ones who never forget. Some people have a tendency to remember unpleasant events long after theyve been resolved. If you and your husband decide to reconcile, they could make things difficult by harboring anger and hostility toward him for what he did to you. Or they may show resentment toward you for taking him back. Exercise caution in who you tell about your husbands affair.

3. Dont ignore his affair or pretend its not happening.

Going into denial will only make matters worse. As traumatic as it is to find out that your husband has been cheating, you need to face the reality of the situation. Ignoring his infidelity gives him the go-ahead to continue his affair. Pretending its not happening will make him think hes getting away with his cheating, or give him the impression that he has your silent approval. At some point you should inform your husband that you know about his affair and make it clear that you want it to stop. The sooner you confront him about his cheating, the better. The longer you wait to bring it up and express your disapproval, the more attached he will become to the other woman. And the harder it will be to get your marriage back on track. Remember too, that affairs thrive in secrecy. Sometimes, just telling your husband you know about it, will be enough to put a stop to his affair.

4. Dont confront him without the 3 Ps Proof, a Plan, and a Purpose.

Most experts agree that you should confront your husband about his cheating. But you need to have a plan. Choose the time and place carefully so you can discuss the affair at length without interruption. DO NOT ask your husband if hes cheating. CHEATERS ALWAYS LIE. Present the evidence youve gathered that proves hes having an affair - names, dates, places, times, absences, phone calls, physical evidence, etc. Then ask him some pointed questions about his affair: why he did it, how it started, how long its been going on, how he feels about the other woman, what he intends to do now that you know. Listen carefully to his answers so you can accurately assess the situation. Then youll be able to make a wise decision about what course of action to take. DO NOT CONFRONT YOUR HUSBAND WITHOUT PROOF OF HIS INFIDELITY. To do so will be a colossal waste of time. Unless you can prove hes been cheating, the information-gathering phase will never get off the ground.

5. Dont waste your time and energy on the other woman.

One of the worst things you can do is become obsessed with the other woman. Its natural for you to be curious about her, but shes not worth your time and energy. Repeatedly questioning your husband about her, referring to her or dragging her name into the conversation puts the spotlight on her instead of on the real issues where it belongs. Dont obsess over the details of what happened between the two them. Concentrate on working things out between the two of you. Do not humiliate or frustrate yourself by calling or confronting the other woman and demanding that she leave your husband alone. Shes not obligated to take orders from you. Harassing her or threatening her will put you on the wrong side of the law. Name-calling, criticizing or belittling the her will only make your husband come to her defense. Youll be driving them closer together instead of forcing them apart. Forget about the other woman and focus your energy and efforts on getting your marriage back on track.

Will you end up sabotaging your marriage or saving it? The final outcome depends on the way you handle things when you first discover your husbands affair. In the initial stages, you may be unsure exactly what youre going to do. But at least you know what NOT to do. Whether you stay with your husband or leave him, avoiding these mistakes, leaves the way clear for whatever decision you eventually make.

Ruth Houston is the author of Is He Cheating on You? - 829 Telltale Signs. To learn more about her book, visit her website at http://www.IsHeCheatingOnYou.com

Topic: This site
Subject: This site - Posted: 2/26/2006 9:36:03 PM
Zachysdad wrote:


P.P.S. She also apologized to me for most of your alls behavior, and said it was not her intentions for you all to attack me for spelling and she is ashamed of your behavor but you can ask her when she gets back her internet will be on soon.



Topic: Divorce, custody, and Protection orders? Need advice...
Subject: Divorce, custody, and Protection orders? Need advice... - Posted: 2/26/2006 9:48:10 PM
There are great links at this site for you:
SANCTUARY FOR THE ABUSED

Topic: Can someone help me out?
Subject: Can someone help me out? - Posted: 2/27/2006 4:42:24 AM
http://www.abika.com

worth every penny

LMWS
http://WomanSavers.blogspot.com

Topic: You not only deserve a man who doesn‘t abuse, you deserve.....
Subject: You not only deserve a man who doesn‘t abuse, you deserve..... - Posted: 2/27/2006 9:15:41 PM
    Don‘t Settle For Less!
You not only deserve a man who doesn‘t abuse, you deserve a Good Boy!

Women not only deserve a man who doesn‘t abuse -- women deserve true blue, red-blooded, bonified, genuine, deep down, heart and soul, worth their weight in gold -- GOOD BOYS! Ah, yes...genuine Good Boys...the reason men were invented in the first place...the reason your ex-boyfriend is gonna PALE in the face of your new man when you find him...ha ha! (Ah, yes, your ex...the ass..the jerk...the mother ffff...nevermind)

This page is for the women who aren‘t sure what a Good Boy is. If you‘re used to dating abusers, I bet you think the guy you‘re with now is terrific--even though he still somehow manages to make you feel like crap and cry on a pretty regular basis. Men can MAKE YOU CRY even when they are not "Classic Abusers." And you don‘t deserve a jerk that makes you cry. Or if you‘re single - - learn what a Good Boy is before you start dating again! Don‘t settle for some jerk just because "he‘s way nice compared to my ex abuser!" Whatever! Don‘t settle.

What is a Good Boy? (Besides a cute nickname) And why do you deserve one? Because everybody deserves to be respected emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually. If you date men who give you less than you deserve, it‘s no one‘s responsibility but yours to demand better. If your boy doesn‘t have these characteristics below, I bet you find yourself crying over him late at night...dump him. And if you‘re out dating, make sure you get a Good one.
 

Let‘s define the words "Good Boy."
Basically, a good boy treats you how? Well, he treats you GOOD!

  • He helps you feel safe and comfortable.
  • He apologizes when he‘s wrong and admits it openly.
  • He‘s honest, even when being honest is uncomfortable.
  • He would never, ever control who you talk to/where you go/what you wear/what you do.
  • He goes out of his way to call you or visit (if he knows it‘s that important to you)
  • He would never insult you, your friends, your job or your school.
  • He takes your feelings seriously and if you tell him something isn‘t working for you--he tries to change it so it does.
  • He does what he says he‘ll do (call, visit, complete something he promised he‘d complete)
  • He is honest about his plans--where he goes or what he tells you he‘s doing (no lies!)
  • He‘s proud of you so he includes you in his life whenever he can (introduces you to family and friends)
  • He does not forget or brush off dates or holidays (this guy NEVER stands you up)
  • He doesn‘t make you wonder how he feels--he tells you how he feels (I love you/I miss you/I care about you/I‘m upset/We can work this out/I‘m wrong/et cet.)
  • He doesn‘t hang up on you--he‘s too mature for that.
  • When something is wrong--he tells you--and it‘s important to him you work it out.
  • No yelling, or silent treatments--he‘s grown up enough to talk until miscommunications are cleared up!
  • He won‘t go to bed mad if that bothers you--he‘ll talk when you need to.
  • He takes responsibility for his actions--if he breaks something--he‘ll fix it!
  • He‘ll take his girl out if she asks him to!
  • He doesn‘t cower and run/hide at the thought of a serious conversation or peaceful "confrontation"---he cares enough about you to sit his ass down and talk.
  • He wants you to be happy and you can tell by how frequently he pleases you.
  • He doesn‘t forget to thank you for all you do for him.
  • You frequently have reasons to thank him! And he appreciates your gestures.
  • He makes you feel wanted, appreciated and secure in the relationship.
  • You know he likes your company and it‘s not all about sex.
  • He‘d never pressure you to do something in bed you don‘t want to do.
  • He would never let his friends yell at you or insult you. In fact, he‘ll tell them to shove it if they act irresponsibly toward you!
  • He‘d never act cold if you‘re in tears--he comforts you.
  • He doesn‘t expect you to be the one doing all the giving (emotionally or otherwise) because he cares about your needs!
  • He does the "little things" that count. (Those vary from woman to woman)
  • He forgives you when you apologize or admit you‘re wrong--and he doesn‘t throw it up in your face later.
  • He never flirts with your friends.
  • He‘d never cheat.
  • He‘d tell you if he‘s interested in someone else--no backstabbing.
  • If you ask for something and he can do it or get it--consider it done!
  • He is not addicted to drugs or alcohol!
  • He keeps you and your wants/needs high on his list of priorities--and it shows!

Fantastic site: http://www.geocities.com/andifekete/index.html



Topic: PLEASE READ: Will the games end when I leave?
Subject: PLEASE READ: Will the games end when I leave? - Posted: 3/1/2006 2:50:08 PM

Topic: BIG ANNOUNCEMENT - EVERYONE READ PLEASE!
Subject: BIG ANNOUNCEMENT - EVERYONE READ PLEASE! - Posted: 3/1/2006 8:52:52 PM
WHOA!!! is there a full moon or somethin.... I logged in and had a HUGE IDENTITY CRISIS....

But thats ok - its all good!!!

The Artist Formerly Known as LMWS
BlogMISTRESS Womansaver to you.

http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE?
Subject: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE? - Posted: 3/1/2006 10:35:07 PM
What can he tell by my IP?  Just my location, right? State? City? Anything else? Name address?

Right now, it only shows your internet provider and State & City.  He‘d have to get a court order and show cause.  Sorry as long as you didn‘t post his phone number, social security number or home address - HE CAN‘T A DAMN THING..

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: whats going on here?
Subject: whats going on here? - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:09:11 AM
I have to agree SS.  Far too much lienancy is being shown bullies, angry exes and just plain jerks.  The lack of boundaries is distrubing.

Moderators? Clean up in aisle 1?

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: members meeting!!!!!!!
Subject: members meeting!!!!!!! - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:20:48 AM
missydelite wrote:
well i give up. there is no pleasing you people and i dont know what else to do. so do what you must and i will just sit back and watch.


MD - I am with you.  And everyone else is right - IMVHO - legitimate concerns are going by the wayside for petty ego based nonsense.  "Defining" others (telling them who they are or should be or do), engaging exes in verbal jousting.... its silly.  This is (I thought) a place to support those who are hurting - women particularly and supportive men.  I really really have serious misgivings about ANY attention or conversation had with an angry boyfriend, ex-husband, teenage hormonal idiot whose parents don‘t monitor their computer use....blah blah blah....



I have made my views known to LMWS.  If I am bitch for having these view then I am proud to be a bitch.  I am going to try to keep it to supportive posts but the nonsense is just crazy. Maybe I am just too protective of those who have been shafted, abused and betrayed here. 

My $2.50
MW
http://womansaver.blogspot.com

Topic: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE?
Subject: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE? - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:25:45 AM
I am glad you enjoyed this post.  It was very informative.  You all should go down to the ABUSE Section and click and read WOMEN & THE DISEASE TO PLEASE.  Its amazing and so true that women are often socialized to put up with unacceptable behavior to be "nice."

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

ps - angelahercules - I don‘t know if you are aware but typing in ALL CAPS on the internet is considered Yelling or Screaming... and its hard on the eyes.  Just wanted to let you know before someone flamed you and hurt your feelings.  Hugs and WELCOME to Womansavers.com

Topic: Warning Signs of Love / Sex / Cybersex Addictions
Subject: Warning Signs of Love / Sex / Cybersex Addictions - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:35:36 AM
Warning Signs of Cybersexual Addiction:

Routinely spending significant amounts of time in chat rooms and private messaging with the sole purpose of finding cybersex.

Feeling preoccupied with using the Internet to find on-line sexual partners.

Frequently using anonymous communication to engage in sexual fantasies not typically carried out in real-life.

Anticipating your next on-line session with the expectation that you will find sexual arousal or gratification.

Finding that you frequently move from cybersex to phone sex (or even real-life meetings).

Hiding your on-line interactions from your significant other.

Feeling guilt or shame from your on-line use.

Accidentally being aroused by cybersex at first, and now find that you actively seek it out when you log on-line.

Masturbating while on-line while engaged in erotic chat.

Less investment with your real-life sexual partner only to prefer cybersex as a primary form of sexual gratification.

Sex addicts often turn to the Internet as a new and safe sexual outlet to fulfill their compulsions without the expense of costly 900-lines, the fear of being seen at an adult bookstore, or the fear of disease among prostitutes
. (The Predators of the Month for October & November - i.e. Hicks & Thomas - fit this model!)

Understanding what makes Cybersex & Online Love addictive.

Sexual compulsivity over the Internet is not just a result of deviant individuals engaged in acting out, but with remarkable speed, the mental health field has witnessed those with no prior criminal or psychiatric history engaged in such behavior online. The Model of Cybersexual Addiction is used to explain how the Internet creates a cultural climate of permissiveness that actually serves to encourage and validate sexually deviant behavior. The Model examines the Anonymity of online interactions that serves to increase the likelihood of the behavior, the Convenience of email and chat rooms making it easily available to users, and finally, the Escape from mental tension derived from the experience which serves to reinforce the behavior leading to compulsivity.
---------------

Excerpted from an article by By Robert Weiss, LCSW, CAS

Healthy romantic love is a unique experience which can encourage bonding, intimacy and the opportunity to play and explore with that special new person.

Romance, with or without sex, encourages personal growth as each new relationship forces new insights and self knowledge. The beginning stages of a potential love relationship can be intense and exciting. Most people easily relate to that "rush" of first love and romance; the stuff of songs, endless greeting cards and warm memories. Healthy intimacy, however, is characterized by more than romance, intensity and sex. Intimacy evolves over time. Loving relationships develop partially through utilizing those first exhilarating times to begin to build a bridge toward deeper, longer term closeness.

It can be difficult for anyone who is not a love or sex addict to understand how love or sexuality can be exploited or evolve into destructive patterns of addiction and compulsion. Yet for the love and sex addict, romantic love, sexuality and the closeness they offer, are experiences most often filled with pitfalls, anxiety and pain. Living in a sometimes chaotic emotional world of desperation and despair, fearful of being alone or rejected, the love addict endlessly longs for that "special" relationship.

Caught up in the constant search for a partner, the addict‘s endless intrigue, flirtations, sexual liaisons and affairs, leave a path of destruction and negative consequences in their wake of his or her behavior. Ironically, the love or relationship usually has few options to resolve these painful circumstances except by engaging in even more searching, creating an escalating cycle of desperation and loss. Just when seemingly "safe" in the rush of a new romantic affair or liaison the troubled Love or Sex Addict grows steadily more unhappy, fearful and bored and ends up pushing their partner away or looking outside the relationship for yet another new intensity or "love" experience.

Thus the cycle begins anew.

Unlike the healthy person seeking partnership and sex as a complement to their life, the love and sex addict searches for something outside of themselves (a person, relationship or experience) which will provide them with the emotional and life stability that they themselves lack. Similar to a drug addict or alcoholic, love and sex addicts use their arousing romantic/ sexual experiences in an attempt to "fix" themselves and remain emotionally stable.

When love and sexuality are used as a way to cope, rather than a way to grow and share, partner choice becomes skewed. Compatibility becomes based on "whether or not you will leave me", "how intense our sex life is" or "how I can hook you into staying", rather than on whether you might truly become a peer, friend and companion.

Addictive relationships are characterized over time by unhealthy dependency, guilt and abuse. Love and sex addicts will use seduction, control, guilt and manipulation to attract and hold onto romantic partners. At times, despairing of this cycle of unhappy affairs, broken relationships and sexual liaisons, some love or sex addicts may have "swearing off" periods (like the bulimic/anorexic cycles of overeaters). The addict believes that just "not being in the game" will solve the problem; only to later find the same issues reappearing when they re-engage in any type of potential intimacy.

Typical Signs of Love or Sex Addiction Include:

Constantly seeking a sexual partner, new romance or significant other (trolling online for new partners or having a bunch of them going at the same time)

An inability or difficulty in being alone

Consistently choosing partners who are emotionally (or logistically) unavailable

Using sex, seduction and intrigue to "hook" onto a partner

Using sex or romantic intensity to tolerate difficult experiences or emotions

Missing out on important family, career or social experiences in order to maintain a sexual high or romantic relationship

When in a relationship, being detached or unhappy, when out of a relationship, feeling desperate and alone

Avoiding sex and sexual acting out (being online, seeing prostitutes, etc) for long periods of time to "solve the problem"

Returning to previously unmanageable or painful relationships despite promises to self or others (returning to spouse, significant other after a horrible period of acting out and swearing you will change)

Mistaking sexual experiences and romantic intensity for love

Not everyone who has engaged in one or two of the above has an addiction problem, many people may have their judgment skewed by a difficult person or situation from time to time in their lives. However, when these situations become the norm, lived over and over again in some form or another, the diagnosis can be made. Love and sex addicts who are not in recovery, like any addict, do not learn from their consequences and mistakes. It is only when the pain of these behaviors and situations becomes greater than the pain and challenges of creating change, that recovery begins.

(Love & Sex Addiction doesn‘t seem like much at first, can be FACILITATED by the internet and will lead the cyberpath to slowly & covertly manipulate the target in a relationship that FOR THE PREDATOR is about SEX ONLY. When they are done they move on with some lie for an ‘excuse‘, leaving the target, who has probably fallen in love, wondering what happened!)

from: http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/2006/02/online-predators-cybersex-and-covert.html

Topic: VIRTUAL RELATIONSHIPS & ONLINE BETRAYALS
Subject: VIRTUAL RELATIONSHIPS & ONLINE BETRAYALS - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:39:22 AM
Do you tell total strangers your most intimate secrets and desires? Do you share details about yourself that you wouldn‘t even tell your spouse when you know nothing about the person you are telling those details to? Would you have phone sex with someone whose number was carved on the wall of a subway restroom?

You might ask "who would do things?" and wonder how I could ask such silly questions. But, if you‘ve ever entered into an online relationship, you may have done all of that and more.

The virtual world can be a very dangerous place. It is the only place I know that anyone, anywhere, can be anyone they want to be. Who‘s to know if "Mr Perfect" is a truly sensitive guy or if he‘s on death row and having fun with trusting strangers?

SET UP FOR ONLINE BETRAYALS

Betrayal is devastating when it happens in real life, when our husband or wife does the unthinkable. Regaining trust after a spouse betrays us can take years, if ever. And, yet, we think nothing of trusting someone we "meet" online, exposing our deepest secrets, and becoming emotionally involved even before we‘ve met them in real life.

In real life, we‘re able to put a face and personality together, and, while we certainly don‘t know everything we may need to know to form a friendship or relationship, we have quite a bit. In a first meeting we can tell whether or not there‘s a "spark" that might grow to a flame or more.

In the virtual world, we use our imagination to "flesh out" the other person, giving him or her all the characteristics that we "need" him or her to have.

A skillful manipulator is able to use just the right words to draw us into an emotional and/or sexual relationship, all without stepping away from his or her computer.

Photo exchanges are no guarantee of who you‘re sending email to, IMing or chatting with. It‘s very easy for someone to "lift" a photo of another person from any number of sources online and pass it off as their own.

Not every online encounter is going to be dangerous or deceptive but do you know which ones are honest and which aren‘t? When you‘re in a support group sharing details of your marriage, don‘t assume that everyone in the group is there for the same reason.

THE POWER OF THE WRITTEN WORD

Do you have an online friend with whom you feel comfortable talking about everything including very intimate personal issues even though you‘ve never met in real life? Do you feel that honesty is an integral part of this relationship? Do you feel that this person may be or is your soul mate?

Here‘s how one woman described an online relationship: "We talked about everything and he was so honest about how he felt and he offered me the support none of my family -- and certainly not my husband -- had ever offered. He didn‘t push for anything more than what I was willing to give; he was the ultimate gentleman. He even said he understood when I told him I was emailing other men, and he didn‘t object. He said there was no rush, that he‘d take a cue from my needs. There was no pressure like the other guys I‘d met in chat.

I was emotionally hooked by the time we arranged a meeting and I really thought it went well, no awkward pauses, and we seemed to ‘click‘ in a physical way although I didn‘t go back to his room with him.

He was only in town for one day and when we parted he said he missed me already and promised to call as soon as he got home.

I expected to get an email the next day but there was nothing and he wasn‘t in chat and he didn‘t log onto IM. I waited until the second day to send an email which he never responded to. By the end of a week I felt emotionally raw. I‘ve never heard from him again. What did I do wrong?"


She, as so many others before her, trusted the written words of a virtual stranger. With those words, she created a "real" person, one who filled all of her needs. She "fleshed out" his words to create her soul mate.

Never underestimate the power of the imagination. When he says he has dark hair, you imagine he looks like your favorite movie star. You give him a sexy voice, a beautiful smile, a winning personality. He becomes the perfect man, the man with all the right words at all the right times.

He becomes the one person who can brighten your day just by emailing "Hello, beautiful!" or IMing a smile. He‘s the first person you think about when you wake up in the morning, the last person you think of as you fall asleep at night. He fills in the emotional blanks within your life.

The two of you grow closer. You become dependent upon him and distance yourself from your real life relationships.

Would he be as wonderful, as comforting, as perfect, in real life? We‘ll never know how many women have pushed for an off-line meeting only to have their cyber soul mate disappear forever. Other women meet their dream man to find that he isn‘t single or separated but married and looking only for a lover. Words are easy, reality isn‘t.

ASSUME ONE PERSON IS A PREDATOR

In the virtual world, assume that at least one person in a chat room or a forum is a predator and act accordingly:

Don‘t post personal details in an open forum; don‘t assume that a private forum is any safer. On the Internet, there is no 100% safe place.

Don‘t email personal details to strangers no matter how understanding and solicitous they may appear.

Don‘t give out personal details when you‘re using chat or Instant Message programs even if the other person gives these details to you. They may have given you false information in an attempt to build up your trust.

Even if you feel you can trust the person you‘ve been chatting or emailing, don‘t give out your address, phone number, or last name. With internet searches, someone with even one personal detail can probably find out where you live and more.

If you‘re planning to meet someone you‘ve met online, make your first meeting in a fairly busy public place and take a friend along.

Be SURE to take someone with you, at least give them details of who you‘re meeting, where you‘re meeting, and when you‘ll be back to work or home.

No matter how the sparks fly at that first meeting, don‘t invite him or her back to your place.

No matter how comfortable you feel at that first meeting, don‘t take a drive with them or let them drop you off at your house.

Trust your "gut." There is no need to force yourself to like someone. That‘s exactly the point of meeting face-to-face: to see if the "bond" you feel for this person is real or illusion.

Have you been betrayed by your spouse? Have you come to the Web for comfort and support? Have you trusted in virtual friends and been hurt when they‘ve betrayed you? After being betrayed in real life, why would you think a virtual relationship would be any safer from betrayal? Behind that keyboard, all those many miles away, is a real person, not a perfect person.

Remember Ted Bundy or Scott Peterson? They WERE real charmers. I‘m not implying that your online friend is another Bundy or Peterson but until you are absolutely certain he or she isn‘t, play it smart and safe.

from: http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/2006/02/virtual-relationships-and-online.html

Topic: THE ONLINE ‘DISINHIBITION EFFECT"
Subject: THE ONLINE ‘DISINHIBITION EFFECT" - Posted: 3/2/2006 7:42:25 AM
It‘s well known that people say and do things in cyberspace that they wouldn‘t ordinarily say or do in the face-to-face world. They loosen up, feel more uninhibited, express themselves more openly. Researchers call this the "disinhibition effect." It‘s a double-edged sword. Sometimes people share very personal things about themselves. They reveal secret emotions, fears, wishes. Or they show unusual acts of kindness and generosity. On the other hand, the disinhibition effect may not be so benign. Out spills rude language and harsh criticisms, anger, hatred, even threats. Or people explore the dark underworld of the internet, places of pornography and violence, places they would never visit in the real world. On the positive side, the disinhibition indicates an attempt to understand and explore oneself, to work through problems and find new ways of being. And sometimes it is simply a blind catharsis, an acting out of unsavory needs and wishes without any personal growth at all.

What causes this online disinhibition? What is it about cyberspace that loosens the psychological barriers that block the release of these inner feelings and needs? Several factors are at play. For some people, one or two of them produces the lion‘s share of the disinhibition effect. In most cases, though, these factors interact with each other, supplement each other, resulting in a more complex, amplified effect.

You Don‘t Know Me (anonymity)

As you move around the internet, most of the people you encounter can‘t easily tell who you are. System operators and some technologically savvy, motivated users may be able to detect your e-mail or internet address, but for the most part people only know what you tell them about yourself. If you wish, you can keep your identity hidden. As the word "anonymous" indicates, you can have no name - at least not your real name. That anonymity works wonders for the disinhibition effect. When people have the opportunity to separate their actions from their real world and identity, they feel less vulnerable about opening up. Whatever they say or do can‘t be directly linked to the rest of their lives. They don‘t have to own their behavior by acknowledging it within the full context of who they "really" are. When acting out hostile feelings, the person doesn‘t have to take responsibility for those actions. In fact, people might even convince themselves that those behaviors "aren‘t me at all." In psychology this is called "dissociation."

You Can‘t See Me (invisibility)

In many online environments other people cannot see you. As you browse through web sites, message boards, and even some chat rooms, people may not even know you are there at all - with the possible exception of web masters and other users who have access to software tools that can detect traffic through the site, assuming they have the inclination to keep an eye on you, one of maybe hundreds or thousands of users. Invisibility gives people the courage to go places and do things that they otherwise wouldn‘t.

This power to be concealed overlaps with anonymity, because anonymity is the concealment of identity. But there are some important differences. In text communication such as e-mail, chat, and instant messaging, others may know a great deal about who you are. However, they still can‘t see or hear you - and you can‘t see or hear them. Even with everyone‘s identity visible, the opportunity to be PHYSICALLY invisible amplifies the disinhibition effect. You don‘t have to worry about how you look or sound when you say (type) something. You don‘t have to worry about how others look or sound when you say something. Seeing a frown, a shaking head, a sigh, a bored expression, and many other subtle and not so subtle signs of disapproval or indifference can slam the breaks on what people are willing to express. In psychoanalysis, the analyst sits behind the patient in order remain a physically ambiguous figure, without revealing any body language or facial expression, so that the patient has free range to discuss whatever he or she wants, without feeling inhibited by how the analyst is physically reacting. In everyday relationships, people sometimes avert their eyes when discussing something personal and emotional. It‘s easier not to look into the other‘s face. Text communication offers a built-in opportunity to keep one‘s eyes averted.

See You Later (asynchronicity)

In e-mail and message boards, communication is asynchronous. People don‘t interact with each other in real time. Others may take minutes, hours, days, or even months to reply to something you say. Not having to deal with someone‘s immediate reaction can be disinhibiting. In real life, it would be like saying something to someone, magically suspending time before that person can reply, and then returning to the conversation when you‘re willing and able to hear the response. Immediate, real-time feedback from others tends to have a very powerful effect on the ongoing flow of how much people reveal about themselves. In e-mail and message boards, where there are delays in that feedback, people‘s train of thought may progress more steadily and quickly towards deeper expressions of what they are thinking and feeling. Some people may even experience asynchronicous communication as "running away" after posting a message that is personal, emotional, or hostile. It feels safe putting it “out there” where it can be left behind. In some cases, as Kali Munro, an online psychotherapist, aptly describes it, the person may be participating in an "emotional hit and run."

It‘s All in My Head (solipsistic introjection)

Absent face2face cues combined with text communication can have an interesting effect on people. Sometimes they feel that their mind has merged with the mind of the online companion. Reading another person‘s message might be experienced as a voice within one‘s head, as if that person magically has been inserted or "introjected" into one‘s psyche. Of course, we may not know what the other person‘s voice actually sounds like, so in our head we assign a voice to that companion. In fact, consciously or unconsciously, we may even assign a visual image to what we think that person looks like and how that person behaves. The online companion now becomes a character within our intrapsychic world, a character that is shaped partly by how the person actually presents him or herself via text communication, but also by our expectations, wishes, and needs. Because the person may even remind us of other people we know, we fill in the image of that character with memories of those other acquaintances.

As the character now becomes more elaborate and "real" within our minds, we may start to think, perhaps without being fully aware of it, that the typed-text conversation is all taking place within our heads, as if it‘s a dialogue between us and this character in our imagination - even as if we are authors typing out a play or a novel. Actually, even when it doesn‘t involve online relationships, many people carry on these kinds of conversations in their imagination throughout the day. People fantasize about flirting, arguing with a boss, or very honestly confronting a friend about what they feel. In their imagination, where it‘s safe, people feel free to say and do all sorts of things that they wouldn‘t in reality. At that moment, reality IS one‘s imagination. Online text communication can become the psychological tapestry in which a person‘s mind weaves these fantasy role plays, usually unconsciously and with considerable disinhibition. All of cyberspace is a stage and we are merely players.

When reading another‘s message, it‘s also possible that you "hear" that person‘s words using your own voice. We may be subvocalizing as we read, thereby projecting the sound of our voice into the other person‘s message. Perhaps unconsciously, it feels as if I am talking to/with myself. When we talk to ourselves, we are willing to say all sorts of things that we wouldn‘t say to others!

It‘s Just a Game (dissociation)

If we combine solipsistic introjection with the escapability of cyberspace, we get a slightly different force that magnifies disinhibition. People may feel that the imaginary characters they "created" exist in a different space, that one‘s online persona along with the online others live in an make-believe dimension, separate and apart from the demands and responsibilities of the real world. They split or "dissociate" online fiction from offline fact. Emily Finch, an author and criminal lawyer studying identity theft in cyberspace, has suggested that some people see their online life as a kind of game with rules and norms that don‘t apply to everyday living (pers. comm., 2002). Once they turn off the computer and return to their daily routine, they believe they can leave that game and their game-identity behind. Why should they be held responsible for what happens in that make-believe play world that has nothing to do with reality? After all, it isn‘t that different than blasting away at your pals in a shoot-em up video game... or so some people might think, perhaps unconsciously.

We‘re Equals (neutralizing of status)

While online a person‘s status in the in-person world may not be known to others and it may not have as much impact as it does in the in-person world. If people can‘t see you or your surroundings, they don‘t know if you are the president of a major corporation sitting in your expensive office, or some "ordinary" person lounging around at home in front of the computer. Even if people do know something about your offline status and power, that elevated position may have little bearing on your online presence and influence. In most cases, everyone on the internet has an equal opportunity to voice him or herself. Everyone - regardless of status, wealth, race, gender, etc. - starts off on a level playing field. Although one‘s status in the outside world ultimately may have some impact on one‘s powers in cyberspace, what mostly determines your influence on others is your skill in communicating (including writing skills), your persistence, the quality of your ideas, and your technical know-how.

People are reluctant to say what they really think as they stand before an authority figure. A fear of disapproval and punishment from on high dampens the spirit. But online, in what feels like a peer relationship - with the appearances of "authority" minimized - people are much more willing to speak out or misbehave.

Interaction Effects

Of course, the online disinhibition effect is not the only factor that determines how much people open up or act out in cyberspace. The strength of underlying feelings, needs, and drive level has a big influence on how people behave. Personalities also vary greatly in the strength of defense mechanisms and tendencies towards inhibition or expression. People with histrionic styles tend to be very open and emotional. Compulsive people are more restrained. The online disinhibition effect will interact with these personality variables, in some cases resulting in a small deviation from the person‘s baseline (offline) behavior, while in other cases causing dramatic changes.

About the Author:

John Suler, Ph.D. is Professor of Psychology at Rider University. This article comes from his online hypertext book The Psychology of Cyberspace which describes his ongoing research on how individuals and groups behave in cyberspace. His work has been reported by national and international media, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, the BBC, and CNN.

http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/2006/02/online-disinhibition-effect.html

Topic: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE?
Subject: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE? - Posted: 3/2/2006 4:43:11 PM
It depends on the context in which you posted the pictures.  Check sites like www.datingpsychos.com or www.bashmyex.com for that.

BTW - http://womansavers.blogspot.com has a very complete list of sites to expose people (of course none of them have the supportive board like Womansavers.com does) - but links are all there!

However, pornographic pictures have to be LABELED as such with sufficient warnings on the sites/postings.  (ie.  www.revengeworld.com)  A good example of a girl who was sued by the ex she exposed ... and won....:

http://www.pornspaces.com/revenge

His pic is CLEARLY on a PORN RELATED SITE.  And sorry if you allowed the picture to be taken over the net (webcam) and/or SENT your picture to someone online - guess what? you‘re screwed.

BTW - for more on anonimity, etc read http://www.eff.org

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: my red flags... in retrospect
Subject: my red flags... in retrospect - Posted: 3/2/2006 4:53:39 PM
My red flags I didn‘t see in old relationships:

1. MOTHER ISSUES: love/hate relationships with their mothers, fixations with, dominated by, etc etc etc ..... BLECH!!

2. FAST INVOLVEMENT:  actually believing it was "love at first sight" for them or that they just HAD to be with me right away.  Nope.

3. CONTROLLING: Little by little my world became them - to the exclusion of EVERYONE ELSE.

4.  NO BOUNDARIES:  Being like a deer in headlights about such things as them talking about their exes, talking about their other sexual exploits, allowing them to say we were friends one minute and ‘in love‘ the next.  WTF?

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Need help confirming my suspicions
Subject: Need help confirming my suspicions - Posted: 3/2/2006 5:01:11 PM
You just need validation - and you have mine.  He‘s up to NO GOOD!!

LMWS has PC Pandora advertised here.  Its economical and completely invisible to spy catchers.  There are also very good keyloggers that are invisible.

I don‘t think you need more - go find my article about what NOT TO DO WHEN YOU CATCH THEM CHEATING.  Get your ducks in a row and get your ass out of Dodge.  He‘s disrespectful to you to even bring that picture into your home.

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Bad behavior in CHAT
Subject: Bad behavior in CHAT - Posted: 3/2/2006 5:52:47 PM
IMVHO
That is UNACCEPTABLE language on site /board where women who have been abused, used, cheated on, raped (emotionally and/or physically), verbally abused, invalidated are looking for support.

Find another place to play, please.

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: mother in law called last night
Subject: mother in law called last night - Posted: 3/2/2006 5:58:08 PM
starlett

she‘s HIS MOTHER.  Please either change your number or have all numbers of his and his family‘s BLOCKED!!! (Tell the phone company you are a DV victim or go to a DV Crisis center and ask them how to do this).

Notice how SHE‘s got you thinking about HIM again?????

NO CONTACT
NO CONTACT
NO CONTACT

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: ONLINE DATING DANGERS
Subject: ONLINE DATING DANGERS - Posted: 3/2/2006 6:31:14 PM
Online Dating Dangers
Criminals are using the Internet at an increasing rate, and more and more people are turning to online dating services because of convenience or fear of the traditional dating scenes.

Unfortunately, meeting someone over the Internet does not mean youre exempt from possible dangers. More than 500 million people are hooked into the World Wide Web, and criminals are taking every advantage of it.

Jayne Hitchcock of "Working to Halt Online Abuse says, "Weve had problems with chat rooms, e-mails, newsgroups, message boards, fantasy sports. You name it, I swear, anywhere online something can happen to you."

Cyber crime expert Jayne Hitchcock testified before legislators Tuesday against Internet crime. She spoke in support of a bill that would require online dating services to provide a disclaimer as to whether or not they provide criminal background checks on its members.

Jayne says, "You have single adults, divorced adults going online to these dating websites thinking, well, its a good way to try to meet somebody A lot of them just dont take the precautions they should. This is just one better step for safety for them."

Ashley Woods says meeting people online can be scary because you never know who youre chatting with. She says she agrees with online services having disclaimers, but it shouldnt stop there.

Ashley Woods says, Its not just putting a disclaimer, its all about the webmaster, whoever runs that website enforcing it. A disclaimer is just like a label. Dont put it up there if youre not going to enforce it."

Forty six states now have cyber stalking legislation on their books. Hitchcock suggests that if you are on a site that does not do background checks, pick another site. She also stresses that when meeting someone in person for the first time, have a friend call you periodically, or better yet, take them with you.

http://www.wctv6.com/home/headlines/1440707.html

(NOTE: The U.S. does NOT have a centralized Marriage Database.  In fact, Marriage licenses are often not shared county to county within a state.  If you are concerned someone is married - check with Datesmart.com or another search firm (for a small fee) and avoid heartbreak or fraud.

ATTENTION: Three GREAT GREAT sites for information on what to look out in Online Dating:

http://www.saferdating.com/
http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/
http://www.wildxangel.com/

MW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: ONLINE DATING DANGERS
Subject: ONLINE DATING DANGERS - Posted: 3/2/2006 6:34:23 PM

BEWARE ONLINE DATING

London, UK - Looking for love on the internet on Valentine‘s Day? Better watch out for the crook who will steal your cash as well as your heart, according to the British government.

The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) issued a warning on Tuesday about the dangers of online dating scams, where criminals use dating agency websites or chat rooms to find potential victims.

"The internet has opened up a new and exciting way to meet your potential life partner and, although the vast majority of those who sign up to an online dating agency are genuine, some scam artists are out to trap the unwary," the OFT said.


The scammers take time to build up a relationship with their online victims and convince them it is true romance.

They then suggest a meeting as a natural progression - but the catch is they need cash in order to make this happen.

After getting the money, the crooks disappear.

"This latest example of an online scam shows how scammers use legitimate services to prey upon people‘s vulnerabilities and hopes for companionship to defraud them of their money," said Christine Wade, OFT director of consumer regulation enforcement.

The scam is just one of those that costs Britons an estimated 1bn a year, the OFT said.

http://www.news24.com/News24/Backpage/BetweenTheSheets/0,5583,2-1343-1346_1880759,00.html


Topic: I TEXT MESSAGED MY X AND TOLD HIM I PUT HIM ON THE SITE
Subject: I TEXT MESSAGED MY X AND TOLD HIM I PUT HIM ON THE SITE - Posted: 3/2/2006 8:38:21 PM
angelahercules

WHY did you do this? What did you hope to gain?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find my post(s) on NO CONTACT and institute this policy with him IMMEDIATELY.

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Why NO CONTACT is so Important & Tips to Help You Adhere to It!
Subject: Why NO CONTACT is so Important & Tips to Help You Adhere to It! - Posted: 3/2/2006 8:47:15 PM
Bumping this up for those that need to see it.... again.



BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: WHY IS HE LIKE THIS?
Subject: WHY IS HE LIKE THIS? - Posted: 3/2/2006 8:55:50 PM
sounds like more than shyness - but since I am not a doctor I can only guess he has some really odd personality thing.  Doesn‘t sound good.  Is he aware he has this problem?  If so would he consider getting help?

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com/

Topic: ONLINE DATING SITES SUED FOR FRAUD
Subject: ONLINE DATING SITES SUED FOR FRAUD - Posted: 3/2/2006 9:10:48 PM
Are Yahoo and Match.com bolstering their online dating services with fake ads and professional flirts?

Two lawsuits filed in California recently make such bold claims, separately accusing both firms of fraud.

Match.com says the claims are baseless; Yahoo didn‘t immediately respond to requests for comment.

In the Match.com case, Orange County, Calif. resident Matthew Evans accuses the site of having a "very dirty, very big secret."

"Not everyone that you meet on Match.com is just another Match.com member, " the lawsuit says. "They are Match.com employees with a secret, fraudulent mission."

Evans claims Match uses "date bait" - employees who pretend to be regular subscribers that flirt with members. The lawsuit claims online daters are often approached by date bait just as their subscriptions are about to expire. Victims receive "winks" and e-mails designed to trick them into renewing their membership, the suit alleges.

Evans also claims in the lawsuit that Match.com employees are required to go on "as many as 100 dates per month," and they are "stationed in most of the major U.S. cities."

Match.com spokeswoman Kristin Kelly called the lawsuit "completely without merit." The firm doesn‘t send automated winks, she said, and employees are not required to date members. Match.com has about 250 employees worldwide, and 15 million members, making the date bait claim "ridiculous."

"The allegations in this case have absolutely no basis in fact and are completely without merit," she said.

The complaint was filed Nov. 10 in U.S. District Court in Northern California.

In the Yahoo case, filed on Oct. 14, Robert Anthony of Broward County, Fla., accuses the firm of creating fake profiles to keep members interested. Yahoo, the lawsuit alleges, "deliberately and intentionally originates and perpetuates false and or nonexistent profiles on its site to generate interest ... and give the site a much more attractive and functional appearance in order to falsely represent more substantial participation than actually exists."

The lawsuit supplies few other details, however.

"Due to the complicated nature of the fraud, and the use of technology to pertpetrate the fraud, Anthony is unable to disclose all of the examples of fraud," it says.

Anthony‘s lawyer, Peter McNulty, didn‘t respond to phone calls requesting comment.

Both lawsuits seek class-action status.

‘Black hole‘
Mike Arias, Evans‘ lawyer in the Match.com case, said his client learned about the alleged practices directly from a Match.com employee he dated. Arias said he has no other plaintiffs in the case at the moment, but that he‘s spoken to other victims and lawyers investigating Match.com practices.

"We‘ve investigated it enough we (to believe the allegations)," he said. "I‘ve talked to enough people who have given me scenarios."

The lawsuit also claims that paid Match.com workers read member e-mails in order to be more seductive to members they contact.

"Match.com typically has their paid employee contact a subscriber immediately before the end of their subscription," it says. "(The employee) goes on a date with a subscriber, (and) gives the deceptive appearance of having a lot in common with the subscriber due in part to having read his or her e-mails."

Match.com‘s Kelly said employees are allowed to use the service, but are not told to date members.

Evans‘ lawsuit also claims that a flaw in Match.com technology prevents profiles older than 30 days from appearing in some searches the Web site offers. "Unless a person updates their profile, they fall into a ‘black hole‘ of outdated profiles, never to be seen by any other person on Match again," the suit says.

Online dating is big business; for a time, it was the fastest-growing e-commerce sector. But the industry has always beaten back complaints about fraud and misrepresentation among members. Two years ago, an MSNBC.com investigation revealed a high percentage of ads on several sites were thinly veiled lures to paid porn Web sites. More recently, Nigerian scammers have seized on the services, frequently placing fake ads that lure victims into feigned relationships ultimately designed to trick them into sending large sums of money to criminals outside the U.S.

There have been accusations that dating services benefit from such practices, because if more attractive, young members appear to be using the service, that draws in more paid members.

"That is ridiculous," Kelly said. "We aggressively defend against fraud and proactively pursue it through our fraud and abuse team."

2005 MSNBC Interactive
*****

Secret bait claims hit dating website

A TOP internet dating website has been accused of secretly hiring people as "date bait" to go out with some of their one million customers so they would keep paying for the service.

The lonely hearts website Match.com secretly recruited people to send enticing emails to its customers and to go out on dates with them as a way of getting them to keep up their $41 monthly subscription, a Los Angeles racketeering lawsuit said.

The company‘s ring-ins, branded "date bait", went on up to 100 dates a month -- three per day -- with Match.com customers, who use the site to search for boyfriends, girlfriends and spouses.

"Hiding behind Match.com‘s portrait of online success is a very big, very dirty secret . . . Not everyone you meet and date through Match.com is just another Match.com member," says the lawsuit.

Kristin Kelly, a spokesperson for Match.com, which has an estimated one million paid subscribers and 15 million members, said the lawsuit was completely without merit and would be vigorously challenged.

The lawsuit was filed by Matthew Evans, a Match.com customer who hopes it will draw support from enough other customers to turn into a much stronger class action suit.

Mr Evans‘ lawyers said he went on several dates with an attractive woman named Autumn Marzec before she allegedly confessed she was paid by the company to meet him.

Such people are given access to customers‘ emails to familiarise themselves with the customer, allowing them to feign interest and compatibility, the suit claims.

The worker goes on a date with the subscriber and acts as if they have a lot in common so the subscriber re-signs.

The suit also charges that when a customer‘s subscription was expiring, Match.com produced fake responses to customers, suggesting another person had an interest in meeting them in order to prod them to resubscribe.

The suit represents growing reports of disappointment among the tens of millions of customers of the online matchmaking industry.

The industry enjoyed an estimated $334 million in turnover during the first half of 2005. - AFP
*****

Leading online matchmaker sued for bogus dating scam

Match.com, one of the top Internet dating websites, has been accused of hiring people as "date bait" to date some of their one million customers to encourage them to keep paying for the service.

A Los Angeles racketeering lawsuit said the lonely hearts website secretly recruited people to send enticing emails to its customers and to go out on dates with them as a way of getting them to keep up their 30 dollars monthly subscription.

The company‘s ringers, branded "date bait", went on as many as 100 dates a month - three per day - with Match.com customers, who use the site to search for boyfriends, girlfriends, and possible husbands and wives. "Hiding behind Match.com‘s portrait of online success is a very big, very dirty secret ... Not everyone you meet and date through Match.com is just another Match.com member," said the lawsuit, filed in a Los Angeles court on November 10.

Kristin Kelly, a spokesperson for Match.com - which has an estimated one million paid subscribers and 15 million members — denied the charges, saying the lawsuit is "completely without merit" and would be "vigorously" challenged. The lawsuit was filed by Matthew Evans, a Match.com customer who hopes it will draw support from enough other customers to turn into a much stronger class action suit.

Evan‘s lawyers said he went on several dates with an attractive woman named Autumn Marzec before she allegedly confessed that she was paid by the company to meet him. Such ringers are given access to customers‘ emails to familiarize themselves with the customer, allowing them to feign interest and compatibility, the suit claimed. "The paid Match.com employee then goes on a date with the subscriber, gives the deceptive appearance of having a lot in common with the subscriber ... with the intent of luring the subscriber into re-signing with Match.com," the suit alleges.

The suit charges as well that when a customer‘s subscription was expiring, Match.com produced fake responses to customers, suggesting another person had an interest in meeting them, in order to prod them to resubscribe. The Los Angeles suit represented growing reports of disappointment among the tens of millions of customers of the online matchmaking industry, which is led by Yahoo! Personals, Match.com, and EHarmony.

The industry enjoyed an estimated 245 million dollars in turnover during the first half of 2005. While the industry advertises its success stories - customers who meet online and eventually get married - some disappointments have raised questions of industry practices. Earlier this year Californian James Hunt complained that for the nearly 3,000 dollars he paid to matchmaker Together Inc., he didn‘t receive the guaranteed nine introductions of "nearly compatible" women. The company disputed his claim.

In New York, the Great Expectations dating service was recently ordered by a judge to refund money to two women who said they never got any dates after paying up to $1,000 for a six month subscription. "I just wanted to go out for coffee and have nice conversations with a couple of people. Instead, I got not a single introduction," said a disappointed 43 year old who identified herself only as Jennifer. "I think I’ll stick to meeting people at bus stops and the elevator," she said.
*****

Better to have loved and lost, even on the internet

A quick look at any online dating site will tell you that everyone is lying

The online dating world has been rocked by claims in Los Angeles that dating companies have been paying women to go on sham dates with male subscribers to make the men think the site is generating results and thus renew their membership fees.

A man in his thirties who signed up to www.match.com, a web dating service that claims 12 per cent of American weddings began with an online introduction has launched a lawsuit accusing the company offraud. He claims to be the victim of a scam he discovered after a "buxom, dark-haired, younger woman" that he had taken on several dates confessed to having been paid to make contact with up to 100 members a month.

More complaints and revealing comments on Online Dating, click on the site name(s):
These are just a few! BEWARE!!!

FOR MORE INFORMATION:
https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/internet_matchmaker_classaction


Topic: IM DISABLED AND NEED ADVICE ABOUT ABUSIVE FAMILY MEMBERS
Subject: IM DISABLED AND NEED ADVICE ABOUT ABUSIVE FAMILY MEMBERS - Posted: 3/2/2006 9:19:18 PM
ah -

visit this link: http://www.asaaps.org/basics/index.php

There is a message board there too that may provide you with more help for this situation.

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Get this!!!! Just when some things couldnt shock me!!!
Subject: Get this!!!! Just when some things couldnt shock me!!! - Posted: 3/3/2006 9:26:25 PM
Post his name & data here on the Rate - A-Guy.  Go to the blog and post his name and data at every website under the REVENGE links.

if & when he abuses her again - turn his ass into the police ASAP.  And report HIM to CPS to keep him away from the children. 

Don‘t beat up too much on the 18 year old. I agree- you don‘t know what he‘s told her - this is all on him.

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: ONLINE DATING SITES SUED FOR FRAUD
Subject: ONLINE DATING SITES SUED FOR FRAUD - Posted: 3/5/2006 5:30:55 AM
OF COURSE they need to be THAT sneaky - they are looking to MAKE MONEY.

I personally know TWO WOMEN (one in New Mexico, one in Virginia) whose ex husbands were CON MEN (both are now in prison) who used the dating sites to con women out of money & sex.  BOTH asked the numerous dating sites their exes were on to take them down.  As of 3 years later - most of the sites have NOT done so.

MissyDelite, et al. - you SHOULD join that ClassAction Suit - its at the link at the bottom of that article.  It will help hold these dating sites ACCOUNTABLE for the lack of safety and checking (remember: There is NO NATIONAL MARRIAGE DATABASE IN NORTH AMERICA)

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

ps - missydelite - you have the BEST ICONS - can you please send me a few more? PRETTY PLEASE?  you rule girl!! BMW

Topic: 3 months of cheating
Subject: 3 months of cheating - Posted: 3/5/2006 5:33:10 AM
see if he will go to at LEAST 6 months of couples counseling with you.  If he refuses or bitches about it:



then institute NO CONTACT.

If you will have problems trusting him again, its not worth it.

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Difference between Boys and Girls thru my Childs Eyes
Subject: Difference between Boys and Girls thru my Childs Eyes - Posted: 3/5/2006 7:32:49 PM
ZM
that is VERY age appropriate for 3-4 year olds.  He wants to see where he fits in.  He is starting to understand that you & he are ‘separate‘ people.  His HEALTHY narcissism is kicking in.  Its all good.

One of my daughters has been enamored with the color blue for a long time.  I am always on the search for blue sheets, comforters, curtains, rugs and accessories for her and blue clothing that is girly.  It‘s gotten much easier lately and I have been pretty lucky.   She also liked some boy-ish toys but I never discouraged it.

My nephew (who is 110% BOY!!) used to like dolls and even made his mom buy him a pair of Barbie sneakers when he was 3 because he thought Barbie was so beautiful.  She didn‘t discourage him - he was starting to figure things out.

Make sure the Z-ster spends time around POSITIVE male role models like your dad too. 

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: "..the cycle of ignorance continues..."
Subject: "..the cycle of ignorance continues..." - Posted: 3/5/2006 7:39:34 PM

Call him a bigamist, but not a sociopath

Ed Hicks pleaded guilty to bigamy in a Chesapeake, Virginia courtroom on March 2. He will sit in jail until his sentencing on May 8.

Ed Hicks was married seven times, and court records indicate that four of the unions were bigamous. As you might expect, the story is complicatedfor details read the Ed Hicks case history on Lovefraud.com. Heres the quick version:

Sandra Hicks, the seventh wife, filed bigamy charges against Ed Hicks last year. Worried that her husband would get away with a slap on the handbigamy is rarely prosecutedSandra went to the media. The Washington Post published a story about Hicks and his marrying ways on July 1, 2005, the date of his initial hearing on the bigamy charge.

Hicks was indicted for marrying Sandra while already married to Julie Flint, the sixth wife. But the case was not prosecuted due to a technicality of Virginia law. Julie then filed her own bigamy chargeHicks had married her while still married to his fifth wife, Rose Marie Sewell. Hicks was indicted again.

In the meantime, Sandra and Julie told their story on the Dr. Phil Show. The program, called Conned by a Con Artist, profiled Hicks and another man who had defrauded women. Linda Hembree of North Carolina was watching the show, and realized that Hicks was dating her sister, Barbara Grant. In fact, he had recently proposed to Barbara. Ed Hicks, who at this point was a fugitive, was arrested that same day.

So what kind of man is Hicks? He is charming, charismatic, smooth-talking. While married to two women, he had six ads on the Internet searching for more companions and proposed to another woman. Hicks was totally irresponsible financiallySandra had to refinance her home to cover $50,000 in his expenses, and Julie had to file for bankruptcy. He abandoned one of his three children. He lied profusely.

In my opinion, Ed Hicks is a textbook sociopath, Sandra says.

Dont use that word

Thats exactly what Sandra told numerous reportersboth print and broadcastwho interviewed her. Usually, the comment never made it into the story, even though Sandra was careful to phrase it as her opinion. (Legally, opinions are not actionable, which means people cant be sued for expressing an opinion.)

Sandras opinion that Hicks is a sociopath was in the original Washington Post article, but the newspapers lawyers cut it out before the story went to press.

A reporter for the Monterey Herald of CaliforniaHicks was a former instructor at the Naval Postgraduate School located thereactually changed Sandras quote. Instead of writing that Sandra believes Hicks is a sociopath, the reporter quoted Sandra as saying, This man is warped.

Even the Dr. Phil Show wouldnt use the term. When she was interviewed, Sandra said she believes Hicks is a sociopath. Then Dr. Phil said about the two men profiled on the show, Whatever you call thempsychopath, sociopath, antisocialthey have no shame, no morality and no conscience. Again, even though Dr. Phil is certainly qualified to give an expert opinion, the lawyers cut the statement.

Finally, on December 13the day after the Dr. Phil Show airedSandra was interviewed by WTTG television in Washington, D.C. The station included her opinion that Hicks is a sociopath in its broadcast. Then the Richmond Times-Dispatch printed a story on December 14 which included Sandras quote, I think hes a psychopath.

Explain the problem

When reporters asked Sandra why Ed Hicks did what he did, she explained, He is a sociopath. This is what he does. He has no remorse. Were nothing more to him than candy wrappers that he throws away.

Sandra is angry and disgusted that the media would not describe Hicks as a sociopath. They need to quit looking at the poor victims like they did something wrong and explain the problem, she says. I did get it in a few times, but it needs to be written every time.

People dont know what these creatures are, she continues. They dont know what to look for.

Take, for example, the story on March 3 in the Richmond Times-Dispatch about Hicks guilty plea. Here are the last two paragraphs:

Hicks, who is being held without bond, appeared in court yesterday in a blue jail jumpsuit, represented by a deputy public defender, Eric Cronin.

Asked after court if he knew what had motivated his client to keep marrying, Cronin replied, I dont know. Human nature?

Cycle of ignorance

So here we are. People dont realize what a sociopath is, so they get conned. Journalists dont know what a sociopath is, so they dont recognize the disorder even as theyre writing about it. And then, when someone does recognize a sociopath, the lawyers wont let the word be used.

The cycle of ignorance continues. In the meantime, sociopaths are free to ply their trade of manipulation, deceit and fraud.

PLEASE visit the link below to post a comment!
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2006/03/05/call-ed-hicks-a-bigamist-but-not-a-sociopath/

Topic: Snooping
Subject: Snooping - Posted: 3/5/2006 7:58:22 PM
I prefer the word "target". The word "victim" allows disingenuous people to tap into and stimulate other people‘s misconceptions and prejudices of victimhood. "Target" correctly identifies that it is the choice of the bully to bully, it is not the choice of the target to be targeted.

Number One mistake people make is to not recognise the serial bully as a sociopath or disordered personality. Naivety is the greatest enemy - most people can‘t or won‘t believe that the person they‘re tackling is a serial bully, and consequently expect the bully to recognise their wrongdoing and make amends. Serial bullies cannot and will not - but they will ruthlessly exploit other people‘s naivety to ensure their own survival. Never underestimate the serial bully‘s deviousness, ruthlessness, cunning, and ability to deceive - and their vindictiveness.The serial bully is easy to spot once you know what you are looking at: Jekyll and Hyde nature, compulsive lying, manipulation (or emotions, perceptions, beliefs, etc), unpredictability, deception, denial, arrogance, narcissism, attention-seeking, etc - whilst always charming and plausible, especially when impressionable witnesses are present.

The family bully encourages and manipulates family members etc to lie, act dishonourably and dishonestly, withhold information, spread misinformation, and to punish the target for alleged infractions, ie the family members become the bully‘s unwitting (and sometimes witting) instruments of harassment.

A Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully‘s aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act.

Abusers choose to abuse, molesters choose to molest, rapists choose to rape, harassers choose to harass, bullies choose to bully. Bullying is in the same league as abuse, molestation, rape, paedophilia and harassment; sadly there are still some people who think that targets of these vile activities are partly responsible for the abuse perpetrated against them.

Bullies are adept at distorting peoples‘ perceptions with intent to engender a negative view of their target in the minds of family members, neighbours, friends and people in positions of officialdom and authority; this is achieved through undermining, the creation of doubts and suspicions, and the sharing of false concerns, etc. This poisoning of people‘s minds is difficult to counter, however explaining the game in a calm articulate manner helps people to see through the mask of deceit and to understand how and why they are being used as pawns.

When close to being outwitted and exposed, the bully feigns victimhood and turns the focus on themselves - this is another example of manipulating people through their emotion of guilt, eg sympathy, feeling sorry, etc. Female serial bullies are especially partial to making themselves the centre of attention by claiming to be the injured party whilst portraying their target as the villain of the piece. When the target tries to explain the game, they are immediately labelled "paranoid".

Attention-seeking behaviour is common with emotionally immature people.

A favourite tactic of the bully in the family is to set people against each other. The benefits to the bully are that: a) the bully gains a great deal of gratification (a perverse form of satisfaction) from encouraging and provoking argument, quarrelling and hostility, and then from watching others engage in adversarial interaction and destructive conflict, and  b) the ensuing conflict ensures that people‘s attention is distracted and diverted away from the cause of the conflict

Control is a common indicator of the serial bully at home - control of finances, control of movements, control over choice of friends, control of the right to work, control over what to think, and so on. All are designed to disempower.

Bullies and harassers have the emotional age of a young child and will exhibit temper tantrums, deceit, lying and manipulation to avoid exposure of their true nature and to evade accountability and sanction.

I estimate one person in thirty, male or female, is a serial bully.

Bullies also rely on the denial of others and the fact that when their target reports the abuse they will be disbelieved ("are your sure this is really going on?", "I find it hard to believe - are you sure you‘re not imagining it?"). Frequently targets are asked why they didn‘t report the abuse before, and they will usually reply "because I didn‘t think anyone would believe me." Sadly they are often right in this assessment. Because of the Jekyll & Hyde nature, compulsive lying, and plausibility, no-one can - or wants - to believe it. Most serial bullies have unhappy and unsatisfactory private lives which are characterised by a string of broken relationships. If you are the current target of a serial bully and taking legal action, a little digging into the bully‘s past, including their personal life, will usually unearth some unsavoury facts that the bully would prefer not to be made public.

by Tim Field
excerpted from:  http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm

Topic: He made a video
Subject: He made a video - Posted: 3/5/2006 8:07:25 PM
Expose this piece of crap.  Some of these psychos just lure women for free sex, free porn, free cybersex, free phone sex under the guise of dating.

This site is a friend of Womansavers - and a good place to expose these freaks.  Read it for a while.  I think there‘s also a discussion group(?) http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com

Also go to our blog.  I have made a whole LIST of exposure sites for women.  Of course Womansavers RULES supreme.  I would put his crap EVERYWHERE I could.

You were targetted - take back your dignity and expose this jerk.

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: DDHG Class Action Lawsuit
Subject: DDHG Class Action Lawsuit - Posted: 3/5/2006 8:19:39 PM
This article posted before explains that:

http://www.womansavers.com/p_posts.asp?t=7201

BMW
http://womansavers.blogspot.com

Topic: Dating With Children
Subject: Dating With Children - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:04:56 PM
I caution women to date a man for 8months to a year BEFORE even INTRODUCING him to their child.  You must be careful you aren‘t being played, you trust him and your relationship with him.  Don‘t let your dating be a revolving door of guys where your kids are concerned.  If you want to date around, fine... but don‘t introduce your kids to 2-3 men in a year.  It confuses them and sends a bad message and cause them to be insecure in their bond to their parents and their self worth.

BMW
WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!


Topic: This Week 2/26-3/5/06 on WOMANSAVERS Blog
Subject: This Week 2/26-3/5/06 on WOMANSAVERS Blog - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:08:30 PM
The blog is still in process of being moved to a new site but posting is going forward while the archives are being moved.

This week‘s articles:
  • PORN: JUST HARMLESS FUN?
  • THE HOOVER: How to Recognize it and Move Forward!
  • DON‘T GET MAD: GET AN URL!
  • STOP EXCUSING INEXCUSABLE BEHAVIOR..
  • 10 Things You Probably Didn‘t Know About Signs Of Infidelity
  • More Cheaters - More Lies! ARKANSAS & CALIFORNIA
  • WHAT‘S THE REAL EFFECT OF PORN?

  • APOLOGIES - to those who are subscribers or feed subscribers to the old site!!! After a few attempts at moving and redirecting your subscriptions - just wasn‘t working.  However, the ability to subscribe to the NEW blog is now up and running!! Please do so!!

    Thanks
    BlogMistress Womansaver
    WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!

    Topic: Snooping
    Subject: Snooping - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:18:05 PM
    ZM - I see exactly what ZD is doing.  That‘s why I posted what I did above about bullies.

    And I say again, I am DEEPLY distrubed that ZD is here and his conversation is even being ‘entertained‘ on this board. He doesn‘t pass my untruthful test.  He has everything to gain by lying and using this site as his own sounding board, in addition to not respecting your boundaries, your right to your own feelings (whether right or wrong) and your need for support without interfering.

    IMVHO This site should not be used for airing your differences, negotiating custody and so on.  ZD admitted to killing your Internet connection, thereby isolating you from support as well as withholding monies.  That‘s a dealbreaker when a child is involved.  Period.  Any father who cares about his child will TREAT THE CHILD‘S MOTHER WITH FAIRNESS.  ZD has not done so.  Period.

    ZM - until things are straightened out, I would keep copies of any posts ZD makes here, perhaps change your nickname and remove Zach‘s pic from your ID for the time being.  Just a suggestion.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    p.s. - We are ALL partially responsible for what happens in our relationships.  Whether we allow it or get involved in the drama.  IMVHO - Womansavers is site for support and is no longer safe if we entertain the ongoing abuse of the men who cheat on the women here (and vice versa). YMMV

    Topic: Getting phone history and snooping
    Subject: Getting phone history and snooping - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:25:31 PM
    http://www.akiba.com

    There‘s a link on our blog too
    I have used them - worth every penny!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: He made a video
    Subject: He made a video - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:33:06 PM
    BTW - on the blog there are LOADS of links for exposing cheaters.  Splash his crap everywhere and take back your dignity.


    (of course Womansavers is the only one with a good SUPPORT board)

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Smear campaign
    Subject: Smear campaign - Posted: 3/6/2006 3:41:04 PM
    It came from this great website:

    http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com

    The site updates daily I think.  Worth a read.

    BWM
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: THE "NEED TO KNOW"
    Subject: THE "NEED TO KNOW" - Posted: 3/6/2006 6:09:03 PM
    The "Need to Know"
    by Peggy Vaughan
    Why we need answers to our questions

    When learning of our partner‘s affair, most of us feel an intense "need to know" - asking questions to try to make some kind of sense out of what has happened.

    Here‘s an excerpt about this from my book, The Monogamy Myth

    "When a person discovers their mate is having an affair, their world suddenly turns upside down. In order to recover any sense of balance, they need to get more information and understanding of the situation. Without answers to their questions, they convince themselves that the answers must all be bad; otherwise why wouldn‘t they be told what they want to know. They feel they‘re being treated like a child, and they resent it.

    "If the information didn‘t exist, it wouldn‘t be so frustrating and demeaning. But they know their partner has it, and simply refuses to give it to them. This makes a balance of power in the relationship impossible... It‘s doubtful if trust can ever be restored in a relationship where this persists.

    "I remember how tough it was on my husband when I continually asked more and more questions. Intellectually, I wanted to move on and get over it, but emotionally I needed the ongoing support and understanding he gave me. It was extremely important that he never said, "enough is enough, let‘s get on with our lives." Of course, nobody would choose to go through the thousands of hours of talking about this if there were some other way. In my own case, I think it was an essential part of overcoming my feelings and finding peace of mind."

    (end of excerpt from "The Monogamy Myth")

    While I have consistently heard this same thing from thousands of people during the past 20 years, there‘s still a great reluctance on the part of those who have had affairs to answer questions and to continue talking about the whole situation. Unfortunately, there has also been a large segment of the therapeutic community that has reinforced the idea that too many questions and too much talking is not for the best.

    I now have statistical data that demonstrates the connection between honest communication and both staying married and recovering. I have posted some results from my Research Questionnaire that may help people see the importance of respecting this "need to know."

    While it‘s important to get answers to your questions IF you ask questions, this does NOT mean you "should" ask questions unless/until you really want to know. It‘s just that it‘s essential to get answers if you DO ask.

    While for most people, "getting answers to your questions" is a key ingredient in rebuilding the trust and building a strong marriage, no one should be forced to hear things they don‘t want to hear. But if they DO want to hear details, they deserve to have their questions answered. It‘s the WILLINGNESS of the partner to answer questions that is so critical, not whether or not you ASK for the answers.

    So each person needs to decide for themselves the timing of when/what/how much they want to know. (It‘s important to determine that you really want the truth, and are not just hoping for some kind of reassurance or disclaimers.) For most people, "not knowing" is worst of all - because their imagination fills in the blanks and the wondering never ceases.

    Joseph‘s Letter

    I want to share a beautiful example of a letter one man wrote in his effort to get his wife to answer his questions. This was originally posted on my BAN Message Board before it was closed. While I didn‘t keep any of the messages posted on that board, this was so exceptional that I got Joseph‘s permission to include it in "Peggy‘s Forum" so it could continue to be accessed by people who didn‘t read his original posting.

    So I‘m including it here as a clear statement of the "need to know," as well as a clear explanation of why you ask the questions:

    "To Whomever,

    "I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn‘t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn‘t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I‘m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

    "You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you‘re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn‘t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don‘t have.

    "Now let‘s enter my reality. Let‘s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don‘t worry about it, it‘s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don‘t worry about it, it‘s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what‘s the difference, it‘s not important. Then later when I‘m expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can‘t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

    "So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don‘t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

    "So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn‘t come from jealousy, it doesn‘t come from spitefulness, and it doesn‘t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn‘t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn‘t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can‘t and the reason I can‘t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

    (end of Joseph‘s Letter)

    The Importance of Reinforcing the Honesty

    While it‘s understandable that the focus is almost exclusively on "getting answers," the key to whether or not there is a continuation of getting answers depends in large part on how you react to hearing the answers you do get. While it may not seem "fair," one who asks for details has a responsibility to hear them in a way that doesn‘t punish the partner for doing what they‘ve asked them to do. (This is not a matter of it being "wrong" to punish the partner; it‘s simply not "smart" to immediately punish someone for being honest, despite the potential pain from the honesty, because it means the honesty will be unlikely to continue.)

    Here‘s another excerpt from the "The Monogamy Myth" that points out how important it is for the person who asks for answers to react in a way that Reinforces the Honesty:

    "The ability to succeed in dealing honestly with an affair does not depend solely on the attitude and behavior of the one who had the affair. Their partner‘s reaction is critical because it serves either to reinforce honesty or to discourage it. Honesty about affairs comes in stages. First, there is the admission that it happened, then the many details that contribute to seeing the whole picture. A partner‘s reaction to the initial fact of the affair has a lot to do with the willingness of the person who had an affair to share any of the details.

    "A person who discovers their mate‘s affair usually feels justified in venting their feelings of hurt and anger. While they certainly have a right to those feelings, they need to recognize that punishing their mate for telling the truth will almost surely put an end to any further honesty. So while it may seem unfair, it‘s in their own best interest to try to reinforce whatever honesty is received if there is to be much hope for the honesty continuing.

    "Supporting a partner‘s honesty often takes enormous patience. One man said he felt his effort to get his wife to open up and talk was like peeling an onion, with each skin coming off very hard. He continued to encourage her and to show his appreciation for her efforts to be honest, so she finally became convinced it was safe to tell him the truth. It took a long time, but they were able to stay together and develop a relationship that was closer than it had been prior to the affair.

    "In another case, a man told of the terrible price his wife paid for being honest with him about her affair. By his own admission, he lashed out at her to try to hurt her back. She decided she had made a mistake by being honest about her affair and became afraid to tell him anything else. But she hung in without trying to defend herself against his constant barrage of criticism. Finally, he came to realize that she must love him very much to tolerate all he had put her through. He felt thankful she hadn‘t left, and began trying to make up for the damage that had been done.

    "This can be quite a challenge for the person who asks for honesty--to avoid punishing their partner for telling them what they want to know. It‘s understandable that a person feels badly about some of the information they receive, but this can be balanced by feeling good about their partner‘s honesty. This was my experience, feeling so positive about James‘ honesty in answering everything I asked him that it diminished the pain of what he had to say. This kind of honest communication is important, not only in dealing with what has happened, but in determining the nature of the relationship in the future."

    (end of excerpt from The Monogamy Myth)

    http://www.dearpeggy.com/affairsmenu.html

    Topic: COMPARISONS WITH ‘THE OTHER WOMAN‘
    Subject: COMPARISONS WITH ‘THE OTHER WOMAN‘ - Posted: 3/6/2006 6:12:13 PM
    Comparisons with the Third Party
    by Peggy Vaughan

    This is an extremely common problem - becoming obsessed with comparing yourself with the third party.

    While the initial emotional reaction to the third party may be unavoidable, it‘s worth working to fight back against those emotions by working hard at thinking more clearly about this issue. The best way to deal with all those painful feelings (and the incredible emotional toll they take) is to remind yourself (over and over and over again) to THINK more clearly - in order to defuse the strong feelings that simply drain away energy better spent in other aspects of recovery.

    The emotions don‘t just "go away" one day all by themselves. Since they come "involuntarily," it calls for making a "voluntary," deliberate effort to counteract them with clear thinking. It‘s a gradual process of replacing the strong emotions with more understanding of the whole situation - so you can eventually be in control of your emotions instead of them being in control of you.

    It really saddens me to see so much pain and agony over the third party - because that gives them more power and attention than is warranted. The third party is primarily fulfilling a "role." The main difference between the spouse and the third party is that one has the role of "spouse" (with all the familiarity and responsibility involved in that role) - while the other has the role of "third party" (with all the newness and freedom involved in that role).

    Personally, when I finally understood this for myself, I could step back and recognize that if my husband had been married to one of the women with whom he had an affair, he might very well have wanted to have an affair with ME - because then I would be in the role of being "new" and representing freedom rather than responsibility.

    http://www.dearpeggy.com/affairsmenu.html

    Topic: This site
    Subject: This site - Posted: 3/7/2006 6:39:23 AM
    escvelocity - I couldnt agree more. 

    ZD cheated on ZM = abuse
    ZD refuses to help ZM financially until visitation is decided = financial abuse
    ZD cut off ZMs internet & support system = isolation/emotional abuse
    ZD violated ZMs boundaries & safe space by coming here = emotional & verbal abuse
    Members continued to DISCUSS matters with ZD = boundary violation = abuse

    "fastgetaway said: The problem with this situation was that ZM should have never told ZD anything about being on this site.  This is her support system.  I get the impression that she waved this site in his face saying "Look what Ive got" and because she did that in a way she dared him to come here."

    SO WHAT? ZM is a mother in a highly emotional and deeply hurt state.  If ZD had any sense he would have respected her boundaries.  It‘s like a child having a tantrum who says they are going to run away.  You just let them get it out.  END OF DISCUSSION.  So then....

    Members of WS and ZD BLAME ZM for him being here and her current situation = Blame Shifting = abuse

    Theres my $9.99 opinion. And this opinion is, for ME, non negotiable.

    Remember - while chiding ZM for bringing her drama here - it is members of Womansavers who chatted with and entertained and attempted to reason with ZD... thereby encouraging the drama to continue here as well. Again blame shifting = abuse.

    I am reposting what I said under CATCH A CHEATER on the Thread "Snooping":

    "ZM - I see exactly what ZD is doing.  Thats why I posted what I did above about bullies.

    And I say again, I am DEEPLY distrubed that ZD is here and his conversation is even being entertained on this board. He doesnt pass my untruthful test.  He has everything to gain by lying and using this site as his own sounding board, in addition to not respecting your boundaries, your right to your own feelings (whether right or wrong) and your need for support without interfering.

    IMVHO This site should not be used for airing your differences, negotiating custody and so on.  ZD admitted to killing your Internet connection, thereby isolating you from support as well as withholding monies.  Thats a dealbreaker when a child is involved.  Period.  Any father who cares about his child will TREAT THE CHILDS MOTHER WITH FAIRNESS.  ZD has not done so.  Period.

    ZM - until things are straightened out, I would keep copies of any posts ZD makes here, perhaps change your nickname and remove Zachs pic from your ID for the time being.  Just a suggestion.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    p.s. - We are ALL partially responsible for what happens in our relationships.  Whether we allow it or get involved in the drama.  IMVHO - Womansavers is site for support and is no longer safe if we entertain the ongoing abuse of the men who cheat on the women here (and vice versa). YMMV"

    BTW - on that same thread I posted a VERY good article about BULLIES.  Worth a read.

    I am NOT blaming members here, or ZM for this mess.  However, I learned that ENGAGING an abuser and "trying to make them see sense" is a LOST CAUSE.  Oh they will TELL you they had a change of heart - but they are only interested in THEIR LOSS OF CONTROL.  Therefore, ONLY ZM & ZD‘s attorneys should be discussing it.  ZM should, IMHO, be here with unconditional support and ZD shouldn‘t  be on this site until this whole matter is legally settled. 

    - BMW

    Topic: I googled my name
    Subject: I googled my name - Posted: 3/7/2006 6:50:26 AM
    Googling one‘s name & nickname(s) every once in a while is a good idea. 

    ALSO - Google your phone number!!! If you find it online, take measures to get it removed - for your own safety.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Getting phone history and snooping
    Subject: Getting phone history and snooping - Posted: 3/7/2006 8:33:51 PM
    LittleMissWomansaver wrote:
    Also, the above website is abika.com, not akiba.com.


    Thanks LMWS for catching my gaf!

    Having a senior moment  

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Bullies/ Disordered Personalities/ Narcissists/ Compulsive Liars
    Subject: Bullies/ Disordered Personalities/ Narcissists/ Compulsive Liars - Posted: 3/7/2006 8:38:38 PM
    (this post seems to have disappeared so I am reposting)

    I prefer the word "target". The word "victim" allows disingenuous people to tap into and stimulate other peoples misconceptions and prejudices of victimhood. "Target" correctly identifies that it is the choice of the bully to bully, it is not the choice of the target to be targeted.

    Number One mistake people make is to not recognise the serial bully as a sociopath or disordered personality. Naivety is the greatest enemy - most people cant or wont believe that the person theyre tackling is a serial bully, and consequently expect the bully to recognise their wrongdoing and make amends. Serial bullies cannot and will not - but they will ruthlessly exploit other peoples naivety to ensure their own survival. Never underestimate the serial bullys deviousness, ruthlessness, cunning, and ability to deceive - and their vindictiveness.The serial bully is easy to spot once you know what you are looking at: Jekyll and Hyde nature, compulsive lying, manipulation (or emotions, perceptions, beliefs, etc), unpredictability, deception, denial, arrogance, narcissism, attention-seeking, etc - whilst always charming and plausible, especially when impressionable witnesses are present.

    The family bully encourages and manipulates family members etc to lie, act dishonourably and dishonestly, withhold information, spread misinformation, and to punish the target for alleged infractions, ie the family members become the bullys unwitting (and sometimes witting) instruments of harassment.

    A Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bullys aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act.

    Abusers choose to abuse, molesters choose to molest, rapists choose to rape, harassers choose to harass, bullies choose to bully. Bullying is in the same league as abuse, molestation, rape, paedophilia and harassment; sadly there are still some people who think that targets of these vile activities are partly responsible for the abuse perpetrated against them.

    Bullies are adept at distorting peoples perceptions with intent to engender a negative view of their target in the minds of family members, neighbours, friends and people in positions of officialdom and authority; this is achieved through undermining, the creation of doubts and suspicions, and the sharing of false concerns, etc. This poisoning of peoples minds is difficult to counter, however explaining the game in a calm articulate manner helps people to see through the mask of deceit and to understand how and why they are being used as pawns.

    When close to being outwitted and exposed, the bully feigns victimhood and turns the focus on themselves - this is another example of manipulating people through their emotion of guilt, eg sympathy, feeling sorry, etc. Female serial bullies are especially partial to making themselves the centre of attention by claiming to be the injured party whilst portraying their target as the villain of the piece. When the target tries to explain the game, they are immediately labelled "paranoid".

    Attention-seeking behaviour is common with emotionally immature people.

    A favourite tactic of the bully in the family is to set people against each other. The benefits to the bully are that: a) the bully gains a great deal of gratification (a perverse form of satisfaction) from encouraging and provoking argument, quarrelling and hostility, and then from watching others engage in adversarial interaction and destructive conflict, and  b) the ensuing conflict ensures that peoples attention is distracted and diverted away from the cause of the conflict

    Control is a common indicator of the serial bully at home - control of finances, control of movements, control over choice of friends, control of the right to work, control over what to think, and so on. All are designed to disempower.

    Bullies and harassers have the emotional age of a young child and will exhibit temper tantrums, deceit, lying and manipulation to avoid exposure of their true nature and to evade accountability and sanction.

    I estimate one person in thirty, male or female, is a serial bully.

    Bullies also rely on the denial of others and the fact that when their target reports the abuse they will be disbelieved ("are your sure this is really going on?", "I find it hard to believe - are you sure youre not imagining it?"). Frequently targets are asked why they didnt report the abuse before, and they will usually reply "because I didnt think anyone would believe me." Sadly they are often right in this assessment. Because of the Jekyll & Hyde nature, compulsive lying, and plausibility, no-one can - or wants - to believe it. Most serial bullies have unhappy and unsatisfactory private lives which are characterised by a string of broken relationships. If you are the current target of a serial bully and taking legal action, a little digging into the bullys past, including their personal life, will usually unearth some unsavoury facts that the bully would prefer not to be made public.

    by Tim Field
    excerpted from:  http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm

    Topic: Desperate Housewife, Teri Hatcher, says She Was Sexually Abused
    Subject: Desperate Housewife, Teri Hatcher, says She Was Sexually Abused - Posted: 3/8/2006 6:03:16 AM
    NEW YORK (AP) - Teri Hatcher, one of the stars of ABC‘s Desperate Housewives, says in the upcoming issue of Vanity Fair that her uncle sexually molested her 35 years ago.

    The 41-year-old actress says she learned in 2002 that a 14-year-old victim of her uncle had committed suicide. Concerned that he would escape charges of molestation, Hatcher approached the prosecutors. "This is something I‘ve tried to hide my whole life," Hatcher tells the magazine, which hits newsstands Friday with the actress on the cover.

    "I was just blown away by this young girl‘s pain," she says. "I thought, boy, that‘s really close to being me. Any day of the week I could feel that sort of pain. I haven‘t tried to kill myself, but I‘ve certainly thought about it."

    After Hatcher came forward, her uncle, Richard Stone, then 64-years-old, pleaded guilty to four counts of child molestation and received 14 years in prison.

    Chuck Gillingham, the Santa Clara County deputy district attorney in California, said, "Without Teri, this case would have been dismissed."

    Hatcher said she hesitated because she thought tabloids would suggest she was trying to resuscitate her then-languishing career: "Here‘s what I anticipated. He did this, he gets off, and Teri ends up on the cover a tabloid."

    Hatcher said she was five-years-old living in Sunnyvale, Calif., with her family when Stone would manipulate situations to get him and Hatcher alone in his car so he could take advantage of her.

    "These are haunting things that I‘ve remembered all my life," she says.

    As many victims of sexual abuse do, Hatcher had complicated feelings about the abuse. She didn‘t see her uncle after she was eight-or nine-years-old, and never told her parents, though she thinks they suspected.

    "I think their way of dealing with things is denial and guilt," she says. "Nobody wanted to talk about it. But all I did was blame myself."

    Hatcher‘s career was revived with the hit Desperate Housewives, for which she‘s twice been nominated for a Golden Globe, winning last year.

    "I have so much pain," she says. "I‘m a woman who carries around all these layers of fear and vulnerability. I‘m trying to be my powerful me."

    http://crimesucks.blogspot.com

    KUDOS to Hatcher for coming forward!!  BMW

    Topic: This is crazy about ZD
    Subject: This is crazy about ZD - Posted: 3/8/2006 3:46:04 PM
    He‘s a player ZM - be glad he‘s gone and keep him gone.

    If you want to write me - you can do so at the blog addy.  I would be happy to talk to you.  This kind of person is very transparent to me and as I have said, I am deeply worried that anyone here is entertaining him & his lies. 

    The sick thing about these guys? They BELIEVE everything they say.  Whether you call them narcissists, abusers, disordered personalities or just plain ASSHOLES - they need to be held accountable and the only way to do it is these boards.

    I hope you have posted his information EVERYWHERE - the blog has loads of sites for exposure.  And as far as he is concerned - no contact!  If he comes to this board to try to "talk" to you? IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE...

    hugs
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com
    womansaversblog@gmail.com

    Topic: boyfirend might be leaving
    Subject: boyfirend might be leaving - Posted: 3/8/2006 3:49:06 PM
    starry

    let him go - all those profiles & porn? Not worth it honey.  He doesn‘t respect you or any other women for that matter.  I would take MissLuvly‘s advice and break it off.

    Then pack up his crap, toss him out, change the locks, and institute NO CONTACT.  And if you need some short term counseling, get some for your self esteem - before you get involved with another LOSER like this dude.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Bullies/ Disordered Personalities/ Narcissists/ Compulsive Liars
    Subject: Bullies/ Disordered Personalities/ Narcissists/ Compulsive Liars - Posted: 3/8/2006 3:53:21 PM
    most of the time these types tend to blame everyone else, twist facts, rewrite history and screw with your & everyone else‘s head

    This is why no contact is so important.  It‘s painful for us but in time you see their nonsense for what it is.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE?
    Subject: IS IT LEGAL TO EXPOSE A CHEATER OR ABUSER ONLINE? - Posted: 3/8/2006 4:05:55 PM
    in lieu of the cheaters complaining about this site - wanted to bump this up.

    BTW if you don‘t post his phone number, address, SS# - you are in the clear so far!  Go For It!!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Arizona man, 52, found with pants down in neighbor‘s barn
    Subject: Arizona man, 52, found with pants down in neighbor‘s barn - Posted: 3/8/2006 10:32:49 PM

    Fire Chief Caught ‘on the lamb‘

    MARCH 7--If our mail is any indication, many of you are very interested in the case of the Arizona man who was arrested this weekend after being found in a neighbor‘s barn with his pants down and a gray lamb at his side. Leroy Johnson, a deputy chief with the Mesa Fire Department, was nabbed shortly after the neighbor‘s teenage daughter watched him drag the animal into the family barn Saturday afternoon. When later confronted, the 52-year-old Johnson, who apparently had been drinking, told the neighbor (who has the improbable name of Alan Goats), "You caught me Alan, I tried to fuck your sheep." We‘ll let you explore all the gory details yourself, via a (too) detailed Maricopa County Sheriff‘s Office report. Johnson, seen at right in a booking photo, was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and public sexual indecency. Along with releasing its report on the incident, the sheriff‘s office provided TSG with evidence photos of the poor lamb--who is pictured below--and the alleged scene of the crime. We‘ll excuse ourselves now. We have to shower.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0307062sheep1.html


    Topic: The (How NOT To Be A) "Bad Lover List"
    Subject: The (How NOT To Be A) "Bad Lover List" - Posted: 3/8/2006 10:44:42 PM

    The following are sayings that we would like our sex partners to write on the blackboard 100 times...

    • If I am inadequate in one area, I will compensate in others.
    • I will pay attention to my partner‘s responses and move on to something different at the slightest sign of revulsion.
    • I will not leave my socks on; it still counts.
    • I will not vomit on my partner‘s private parts.
    • Personal hygiene is good.
    • Spitting is bad.
    • Little pieces of toilet paper are neither a fashion statement nor a turn-on.
    • I will not laugh at noises caused by friction.
    • I will not smack my partner in the nose, accidentally or otherwise.
    • I will not lay on my partner‘s hair.
    • I will not tell my partner I wish she was more aggressive sexually, when I‘m always being bossy in bed.
    • I will not limit my tongue‘s entire repetoire to simply thrusting stiffly (or limply) into my partner‘s mouth.
    • I will be careful with my teeth.
    • I will not comment on my partner‘s weight ever, in bed or otherwise.
    • I will be careful with my fingernails.
    • I will pay attention.
    • I will not let my partner down by abruptly stopping what was just about to make her very happy.
    • I will be careful with my jewellry.
    • I will wash beneath my foreskin. Daily.
    • I will not expect my partner to have the flexibility of a gymnast, when I can‘t even touch my toes.
    • I will remember to bring condoms, lube, and spermicide.
    • I will practise putting on condoms so that I don‘t totally spoil the moment with unskilled ineptitude.
    • "Ouch" does not mean "ooh baby, do that again".
    • I will not make her sleep on the wet spot.
    • I will not attempt to suck my partner‘s tongue out of her head.
    • I will not be so focussed on my "performance" that I will forget to have fun and enjoy myself too.
    • I will not make fun of noises my partner makes in the heat of the moment.
    • Having staying power is a good thing; doing the same thing for an hour is not.
    • I will not say "This will only take a minute" or "This won‘t hurt a bit" as it will only make my partner nervous.
    • I will not eat food with a lot of garlic in it beforehand, unless my partner does too.
    • I will throw away my own condom.
    • I will not stop to answer the phone, the door, or my pager.
    • "No" does not mean "yes" or "maybe", nor is it a come-on line.
    http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/badlover.shtml

    Topic: Profile of a Rapist/ Stalker/ or Abuser
    Subject: Profile of a Rapist/ Stalker/ or Abuser - Posted: 3/8/2006 10:49:08 PM

    In attempting to warn women against the danger, many rape crisis centers proclaim "all men are potential rapists." What a horrible way to live. Who wants to go through life in fear of one half of the human race? Much less believe this about those we love and are intimate with.

    The idea behind any learning should be to improve the quality of life, not degrade it. To this end, lets leave the wild paranoia of possible rape scenarios and move onto the more solid footing of probable and very likely - and what you can do about it.

    Someone rightly said, "Dishonest people are seldom dishonest in only one aspect of their lives." In the same vein, the predilections that can, and do, lead to rape are not isolated. They tend to permeate a persons character and be regularly displayed in many small ways and in other areas. These attitudes, behaviors and words are consistent among rapists and those who attack others. And IF you are willing to look, they are easy to spot.

    The reason it is impossible to predict who will and wont sexually assault someone is because how these behaviors manifest is a matter of style and preference. One person might choose to be blatant and habitually physically attack others, while another might be more subtle but verbally attack others on a regular basis. The motives are the same, but the style is utterly different. And that is why it is hard to predict who will and wont use sexual assault.

    What we can accurately predict is something bad will arise out of these character traits, the When, Where and How are impossible to predetermine.

    If you see these behaviors in a person, take care. The more you see, the more care should be taken not to be alone him. Even if he doesnt rape, these behaviors indicate serious character flaws.

    Danger signs

    1) Insensitivity for others/emphasis on self - Does this person put his wants above the needs, feelings or well being of others? Is getting his way more important to him than other peoples welfare? Often this can go beyond mere selfishness and border nearly on an "assumed divine right." Often these people will justify a particularly vicious action with a flip comment like, "Hey, thats how the game is played." Such a person has no understanding that he must co-exist with others. Because he simply exists he thinks the world "owes" him whatever he wants. A common tactic of such a person it to make you feel bad for not doing what he wants.

    2) Belittling behavior or attitudes towards others - Does this person habitually make nasty, belittling or degrading comments about others especially under the guise of joking? Does this person think he is better than others? Does he look down on others? A nouveau riche aristocrat? Is he a racist? A person who thinks that race or social position makes him superior can also assume gender does too. When you think you are superior, an assumed right to take what you want often follows.

    3) Negating behavior or comments - Closely related to 1 and 2. Does he try to tell you what you are feeling or thinking? Or worse, tell you what you are not? Comments like "you dont really mean that" are serious indicators of someone trying to negate you. A person who negates others is trying to take away the other persons thoughts, feelings and needs and attempting to project his wants onto that person. The most obvious example of this is "Well even though she said no, she really meant yes".

    4) Hostile and/or threatening language - What words does a person use? Choice of words convey subconscious assumptions about a particular topic. For example a man who generically refers to women as "bitches" does not have good assumptions about females (or much respect). It is all too easy to dismiss this behavior as just "blowing off steam." But if it is a constant behavior, it goes far beyond that. Someone who habitually uses violent or threatening language should be carefully watched for possible escalation. Its on his mind already. Its a uncomfortably short step from thinking about to doing.

    5) Bullying - This behavior is especially dangerous. Does this person use overt or subtle threats to get his way? A bully uses the threat of violence more than actual violence. Most often bullies are not willing to risk conflict with someone who can hurt them (an alpha male), and will instead chose to intimidate someone he considers weaker and safer. Someone who is bullying over other matters can easily turn to bullying you regarding sex.

    6) Excessive anger - How easy does this person anger? Is he a "Short Fuse"? Does he boil over at the slightest problem? This is an indication of chronic anger. A person who explodes over a minor issue is like a full pot boiling over on the stove. Its not that the issue is all that important, but that he has so much anger already, any more causes him to explode. Often people with chronic anger look for targets to vent their anger at. This could manifest as physical fights, abuse, or rape.

    7) Brooding/ revenge - Does this person hang onto his anger long after the situation is over? Will he still be stewing over something while everyone else has moved onto other things? Will he become anti-social and glare at the source of his anger from across the room? Will he insist on taking revenge for real or imagined slights? Both indicate a petty and obsessive personality. A brooder fixates on something and then works himself into a frenzy over it. A person who seeks revenge "has to win" and is willing to take it to extremes. Refusing such a persons sexual advances can turn this tendency towards you.

    8) Obsession This is a close cousin to number seven. It is a major factor with acquaintance rapes. This is the person who wont leave you alone. He insists on hitting on you long after you have told him no. He is always trying establish forced intimacy (see bonding process below). Such obsessions easily turn into anger when his advances are rejected. One day he shows up in a fringe area, drunk and attacks.

    9) Extreme mood swings - Beware someone who can go from wildly happy to deeply wounded at a moments notice. This sort of personality can feel justified to commit an unlimited amount of violence and damage, because you "hurt his feelings." This is a common pattern among those with chronic anger about life.

    10) Physical tantrums - How does this person get angry? Especially when denied "getting his way". Beware of a person who regularly physically assaults his environment i.e. hitting walls, kicking things etc. It is only a short step from striking a car to attacking you.

    11) Jock or gorilla mentality - This mentality promotes both acceptance and encouragement for the use of violence. It is especially common among participants of contact sports. What is most insidious about this mentality is the "jock" receives, not only positive reinforcement, but out-and-out applause for being aggressive and violent. This can easily lead to a failure to differentiate between the playing field and real life. Mike Tysons comment is a prime example: "Nobody ever objected before."

    12) A mean drunk - Nearly all rape and abuse cases involve alcohol. Watch what surfaces when someone is intoxicated. It shows what is always lurking underneath. Do not put yourself into a situation where you would deal with such a person while he is intoxicated. Most importantly, dont allow your facilities to be diminished by alcohol or drugs in this persons presence.

    13) Alcohol or drug abuse - To begin with drug and alcohol addiction can in be traced back to selfishness and a refusal to change ones world view. Alcohol and drugs are not the cause of bad behavior, rather they are used as an excuse! Often the attacker intentionally became intoxicated to ignore the social restrictions and inhibitions regarding violence.

    While there are others, these behaviors are serious indicators of a potential rapist. This short list should acquaint you with the basics. Not all men are rapists, but a person like this has a higher probability than others. You not only find these traits among rapists and abusers, but also professional criminals. Philosophically there is little difference between such, they are all selfish. Most often it is just a matter of degrees, style and choice of victims.

    So slick he could slide up hill

    One Saturday morning our college-aged daughter, who had come back for a visit, mentioned she was dating someone who had been convicted of sexual assault. Marc tried to mask his immediate reaction by taking a sip of coffee. What nearly caused a caffinated spraying of the room was her follow up comment "But its okay, he explained to me what happened and it wasnt his fault."

    Of course it wasnt his fault...and while were at it, lets free everybody in prison because they are innocent - and they will tell you that too.

    When we mentioned the possibility that he probably lied about, or at the very least spindoctored, his version of events she proudly told us that "she had checked it out" -- by asking his best friend. She then proceeded to tell us a long litany of behavior that was bordering on stalking. We told her to drop him faster than an annoyed scorpion.

    What was most disturbing was her outrage at our reaction. Why were we getting so upset, she knew what she was doing and she could take care of herself. This kind of gullibility born of both willful ignorance and arrogance is what leads people into danger. And she had a double-dose of both.

    Fortunately, she broke it off with him shortly after returning to school, so nothing bad ever occurred. She was able to "flitterygibbit" off to other things convinced that mom and dad were once again over-reacting and being paranoid. She is, unfortunately, our risk taker. She insists on regularly putting herself into situations like that.

    We mention this story because there is an old saying: You cant cheat an honest man. If you dont have much experience with the underbelly of life, that comment doesnt seem to make sense. But it is very true. That is because most swindles rely on the marks greed. It is the person who is avaricely trying to get a ludicrously low price or an unrealistic high return who is going to get hustled. Whereas an honest person knows this isnt right. You dont get those kind of prices and returns in legitimate business. If someone is offering them, then something is wrong. And yet because of greed, the mark proceeds with the deal.

    In the same vein, a smooth talking individual can only convince you of something if you want to believe what he is saying. And the more you want to believe the less convincing he will have to do. (In the case of sociopaths and narcissists, the verbal manipulation & brainwashing can con even the smartest & savviest of us)

    The reason for this side trip into the nature of con artists is to acquaint you with the fact that many rapists will attempt to mask, justify, make light of, or explain away the dangerous behaviors that we have mentioned. How they will do this is totally unpredictable at this time -- as it depends on the individual and his opinion and assessment of you. Know right now however, that he will tailor his response to what he thinks will work best with you. So it is going to sound real convincing when it comes your way.

    Having said that however, there are several common tactics. The first is to make light of it. To claim that he was just joking about a verbal attack. To "blow off" a significant event with a flip or short comment as though it didnt matter.

    Another common dodge is to minimize others by focusing on him. He was justified in doing what he did because his emotions were hurt or because the other person did something to him first.

    Bullying is often common. The subject is closed because it angers or upsets him.

    Or they will have a long and elaborate story how it really wasnt their fault. These stories however, while tending to have great depths in some areas are prone to be as shallow as a puddle in a parking lot when it comes to their involvement. Not about what they did or what they were feeling - those are in depth areas - but rather why they chose a course of action that they knew was wrong. That will be quickly glazed over. Unfortunately this subject has massive influence on everything else they are telling you. But if they can baffle you with BS about other details, you wont notice that this issue is prominently lacking in their story.

    It is not uncommon for them to try to turn it around onto you. Your reaction to their action is wrong : That is what they will try to convince you. You are being narrow-minded and mean spirited. Dont you know it was just a joke? How can you be so unforgiving to hold him accountable for something that wasnt his fault. Or a very common one, how can you be so unreasonable, look how reasonable about this he is trying to be.

    No matter what tactic someone takes there is always a core fortification of "me" that is involved in his arguments. It is hard to describe, but once you have learned how to recognize it, it is always there. This fortification is never touched. It is always talked around or quickly skipped over. And that area that is never addressed is accepting personal responsibility for ones actions.

    Another issue that is never mentioned is their responsibility to interact with others on an equal basis. It is always how other people are affecting them. Or how much they have done and how hard they have tried to make things work. There is no recognition that their words or actions might have affected someone just as, if not deeper than they themselves were effected.

    If you can remove your emotional involvement from the equation, you will clearly see how people attempt to hide these behaviors . But before you can remove your emotional investment you must critically review your motives. What are you getting out of the situation? What do you expect to get out of the situation? What are you afraid of losing if you were to allow yourself to see this behavior and recognize its significance?

    With our daughter, it was that this man was from a well to do family and spent money on her. He would take her out, buy her entertainment, dinner, drinks and gifts. Which for a broke college student is very appealing. Because she was benefiting from the association, she chose to ignore the danger signals and accept a shallow and biased explanation of past events. It wasnt until his obsessive behavior became annoying to her that she decided that the profit wasnt worth the pain.

    That which is hateful

    The great rabbinical scholar Hillel is supposed to have been woken up in the middle of the night by a skeptic. The skeptic demanded Hillel explain the whole of the Torah in ten words or less. He replied "What is hateful unto you, do not do unto others -- the rest is commentary" and then Hillel rolled over and went back to sleep.

    Rapists and abusers tend to be very selfish people. While there is a chance of a rape occurring because an otherwise "nice guy" makes a bad and selfish decision, this is an exception rather than the rule. Usually people who rape others have long shown a consistent pattern of attitude and behavior. The sexual assault is another, albeit more extreme, manifestation of this kind of mindset.

    This however brings up an interesting point. Bad behavior tends to be tolerated only by people who are expecting you to tolerate theirs.

    If you are engaged in selfish behavior, you will eventually find yourself surrounded only by other selfish people. This shift is gradual and oft times not noticed by the individual. Once you start down this road, it becomes a matter of degrees - who is more selfish. And when that happens it is not a question of "if" bad things will happen but rather "when?"

    If you see these warning signs we have talked about her, do not choose to ignore them. Do not minimize them. Do not assume that you can control the situation. That is an assumption of omnipotence. You cannot control other human being and the assumption you can is pure arrogance.

    The best thing you can do is to get these kind of individuals out of your life. If you look around and recognize this behavior in ALL of your friends, then it is time to sit down and do a critical reassessment of your own behavior.

    In conclusion

    These danger signals are real as are the tactics we have discussed. Care should be taken when dealing with someone who exhibits them. Do not put yourself in a situation where such a person could successfully use violence. Literally, do not go off alone with such a person especially if alcohol or drugs are involved.

    Incidentally, many of these behaviors are shared with those who turn into abusive husbands and boyfriends. These are the seeds of that kind of behavior, but it wont be until you are involved that abuse will manifest. This is another reason to avoid becoming involved with a person who displays these early signs.

    To a greater or lesser degree, you can see these danger signals in many people you know. Do not ignore or rationalize these behaviors, especially if you see a significant number of them. Dont make the mistake, as great many young women do, that because such a person hasnt attacked you, he wont. A shark is a shark whether he is peacefully swimming or attacking. Just because you havent been attacked, doesnt mean he cant or wont. You either havent had anything he wants or you havent been in a situation with him where he could successfully act.

    http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/profile.html

    Topic: Arizona man, 52, found with pants down in neighbors barn
    Subject: Arizona man, 52, found with pants down in neighbors barn - Posted: 3/9/2006 7:18:42 AM
    Yep - this story really set off my EEWWW factor. 

    Some guys will **** anything in a pinch.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com



    Topic: familys disbelief
    Subject: familys disbelief - Posted: 3/9/2006 4:01:15 PM
    Have you gone to a rape crisis center for help?  Its common for family & friends to be in active denial about it.

    Please check this link for resources near you:
    http://www.aardvarc.org/rape/states/orrp.shtml

    hug-
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Lovely - NOT!
    Subject: Lovely - NOT! - Posted: 3/9/2006 4:21:14 PM
    um.... LMWS? Didn‘t I just post this on the blog (March 8, 2006)?
    GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!! 

    Here‘s another one for ya‘ll - and get out the barf bags:

    http://thestoriesyoucannottell.blogspot.com/2006/01/14-tips-to-follow-when-having-affair.html

    You should all go to the blog sometime and surf through the SLEAZE PATROL LINKS.  blech 

    BMW
    WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!

    Topic: David hasselhoff: alleged wife abuser
    Subject: David hasselhoff: alleged wife abuser - Posted: 3/9/2006 4:24:09 PM
    why does this not surprise me?

    sad really.....

    BMW
    WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!

    Topic: Diabetes
    Subject: Diabetes - Posted: 3/9/2006 4:42:22 PM
    Diabetes runs in my family (I am insulin resistant and fighting it going to full blown diabetes).

    Diabetics don‘t heal as fast as others from surgeries.  Here are some links, judyl - to help you get some answers:

    http://www.diabetesmonitor.com/dqa0000.htm

    http://www.diabeteshealth.com/browse,1033.html

    http://www.diabetes.org

    Good 4 u for being a caring friend!
    BMW
    WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!

    Topic: Woman gets ultimate revenge on eBay
    Subject: Woman gets ultimate revenge on eBay - Posted: 3/10/2006 10:07:17 AM
    There‘s more of this online than you would think!  I posted some of these on the blog but I will repost them here.... ENJOY!!

    Ultimate Revenge (as seen on Oprah!)

    I Cheated On My Wife

    http://gridney2.cjb.net/

    http://www.pornspaces.com/revenge/

    ENJOY!!
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Lovely - NOT!
    Subject: Lovely - NOT! - Posted: 3/10/2006 10:13:26 AM
    LittleMissWomansaver wrote:



    Yes, thats where I saw it.  It disgusted me so I had to post it.


    Ah ok!!!

    With you in DISGUST AND SOLIDARITY THEREOF!....

    your bitch,
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Lovely - NOT!
    Subject: Lovely - NOT! - Posted: 3/10/2006 10:15:54 AM
    miss_led wrote:

    I got an email on myspace from a married man that is interested in having sex.  He sent me his webpage that includes his picture and work #, oh yes hes a realtor and the webpage actually shows the company he works for.

    I was kind of tempted to call the company and forward the email.  I dont think they would like their company name being associated with this type of activity.



    If you can right click on it and see SOURCE - c&p that too.  C&P the whole email.  Then SEND HARD COPIES TO THE COMPANY. 

    Use of business resources for personal stuff is usually illegal.  His company needs to know.

    And post his sh*t on every expose site I have the blog.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: NBC Unable to Respond Yet to Staffers‘ Affair
    Subject: NBC Unable to Respond Yet to Staffers‘ Affair - Posted: 3/10/2006 7:20:32 PM




    A high-level affair has workers abuzz at NBC‘s HQ in Rockefeller Center (below), as anchor Brian Williams (above) and other brass figure out how the network should respond.



    "NBC Nightly News" anchor Brian Williams and top execs are grappling with a sticky personnel issue at the top-rated network news broadcast.

    Namely, what should be done about two married-with-children senior producers who‘ve been having an extramarital affair, creating a deeply awkward situation among their colleagues, throwing the "Nightly News" office into chaos, and setting tongues wagging at warp speed throughout 30 Rock?

    I hear that senior producer Albert Oetgen, whom Williams called "our resident ethicist" in the Dec. 8 installment of his "The Daily Nightly" blog, has been on leave since his relationship with senior domestic producer Sharon Hoffman became widely known. She‘s the wife of ABC News producer Lee Hoffman and the sister-in-law of CNBC President Mark Hoffman.

    Word is that the secret was revealed after Lee Hoffman, Sharon‘s husband of eight years, discovered an incriminating message last week from Oetgen on her BlackBerry.

    The 52-year-old Oetgen didn‘t respond to phone and E-mail messages, and the 37-year-old Hoffman referred me to NBC News PR. Publicity chief Allison Gollust refused to comment on the situation.

    Lee Hoffman likewise wouldn‘t discuss it, but relayed this statement: "Sharon and I have two great kids and this is the focus of our attention."

    I‘m told that the 46-year-old Williams, who as managing editor of "Nightly" has supervisory responsibilities, has met with executive producer John Reiss about whether Oetgen or Hoffman should be removed from the broadcast.

    Buzz at the network is that Williams had been critical of Hoffman‘s work, but the more senior Oetgen protected her from the anchor‘s wrath. "Now that people know about their relationship, they are ped off," an informed NBC source told me yesterday.


    http://www.nydailynews.com/front/v-echo/story/398521p-337686c.html

    Topic: DDHG Class Action Lawsuit
    Subject: DDHG Class Action Lawsuit - Posted: 3/10/2006 7:31:15 PM
    It is ridiculous.  If these guys (women too) would clean up their acts they‘d have nothing to complain about.  Besides, if you want to play around - don‘t get married or be in a committed relationship - tell the woman/man you want to be a player. 

    "Oh? Then you will have no dates?  LOL!! gee whiz, here‘s a vowel - now get a clue!"  

    There‘s a new Federal law about using the Internet to ANNOY and HARASS someone.  But exposure sites like this one? Different subject all together.  If you don‘t post the person‘s address, phone number, ss# and so on.... you are fine. 

    The TRUTH is an ABSOLUTE DEFENSE to a claim of DEFAMATION or SLANDER (http://www.findlaw.com)

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Woman gets ultimate revenge on eBay
    Subject: Woman gets ultimate revenge on eBay - Posted: 3/10/2006 7:35:40 PM
    and dont worry - cheating women get theirs too!!

    I am looking around for it but I think its gone now, a couple years ago a man whose wife of 2-3 years slept around on him and left him - sold her wedding dress on EBay.  He even took pictures of himself MODELING IT!!  It was priceless. (6‘ tall guy with a moustache & 5 o‘clock shadow in a size 8 wedding gown.... LOL!!)

    He told all about the nonsense she put him through about the wedding, getting married and the nervous breakdown she almost had over the wedding gown.  (i.e. - the ex-wife was more interested in the wedding & reception than the MARRIAGE)

    I think he made a nice piece of change on the dress.  Sold to someone who actually wanted to be married!  He used it to help pay his lawyer for the divorce. 
    He was admirable, IMHO 
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Would like to know if he is cheating now?
    Subject: Would like to know if he is cheating now? - Posted: 3/10/2006 9:38:48 PM
    He threatened to KILL YOU if you dug into his past? He lied?  He‘s dangerous?  And you are sticking AROUND?

    At the bottom of this page is a list of site links.  Click on ABUSE EMERGENCIES.... find a DV center near you.  Quietly make an appointment with them and KEEP IT.  Go talk to a counselor about getting out - NOW.  And then get all your stuff together legally and run screaming.

    I wouldn‘t want to know about his past at this point.  He‘s DANGEROUS.... 

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Need Help!!!
    Subject: Need Help!!! - Posted: 3/10/2006 9:55:30 PM
    angelfire74 wrote:
    I contacted the National Clearinghouse on Family Violence and they just told me she needs a lawyer and to call the police.  Well she has no money to pay a lawyer and with her abusers cousin being a cop, who knows if they would help her.

    So what else can she do?




    The police (RCMP) cant turn her down.  And her abuser is full of it.

    Centre de recherche interdisciplinaire sur la violence familiale et la violence faite aux femmes (Quebec)

    Assaulted Women‘s Helpline (24 hour crisis line; they accept collect calls)  TTY: 416-364-8762

    and/or call the Clearinghouse back and simply ask them for the name, number, etc of a DV Center (English speaking) near her.  Give her the info.  Tell her to call, make an appointment, quietly go and talk to a counselor (tell her NOT To blurt out her story on the phone but to make a definite appt. to see a counselor) and STRATEGIZE the next step with them  Tell them the cousin is a policeman, etc etc.....

    They should provide low/ no-cost legal assistance or where she should go to obtain it.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: should I, or shouldnt I ??????????
    Subject: should I, or shouldnt I ?????????? - Posted: 3/11/2006 8:15:41 PM
    If it came from YOUR computer, fake addy or not, it will have YOUR IP ADDRESS ON IT.

    Better to use an anonymous emailer (there‘s a few online)  that cloaks your IP.

    If the IP wasn‘t hidden?  DELETE!!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: More Loveliness.... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Subject: More Loveliness.... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Posted: 3/11/2006 8:23:01 PM
    OK ladies.... ever wonder if your guy sees the PROS???  and if he does when he TRAVELS?

    Get ready for a gag fest:

    http://www.internationalsexguide.info/

    http://www.usasexguide.info/

    Found this definition on their ABBREVIATIONS page:

    Anti-Sex Pervert These are the "real" perverts, the people who are against the concept of healthy men engaging in sex with willing female partners.

    from what I can see these guys will even post about their GIRLFRIENDS.


    BMW
    sorry need to go puke some more....

    Topic: Dont Get Played
    Subject: Dont Get Played - Posted: 3/11/2006 8:38:32 PM
    If you go to the blog http://womansavers.blogspot.com on the right, in the links, I have listed ALLLLLL the numerous sites you can post your cheater, loser, abuser, jerkwad.... LOL.

    However, I must say that Womansavers is the ONLY one with an active SUPPORT BOARD and ongoing friendship for the women (and supportive men) who choose to be here.  Which puts it WAAAAYYYY up on the scale.

    I say, post that LOSER everywhere, but stick around at Womansavers.com!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: My grandfather can no longer speak :(.......
    Subject: My grandfather can no longer speak :(....... - Posted: 3/12/2006 8:57:20 PM
    Hugs....

    Be sure to make a point to spend a lot of time with him.  Sometimes, words get in the way of time & affection.  I know he will appreciate it.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: How do I make the pain stop?
    Subject: How do I make the pain stop? - Posted: 3/12/2006 9:03:38 PM
    Hi and welcome to Womansavers

    Read all you can and know Its NOT YOU --- ITS HIM!!! And you deserve better.  Please click on ARTICLES and read and stick around here on the boards.  Visit the blog when you have a chance, too!

    if it‘s really bad - maybe short term counseling?  You have been TRAUMATIZED and don‘t let anyone tell you to just GET OVER IT.  It will take as long as it will take.

    We have all been there - yes, even me.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: porn mags
    Subject: porn mags - Posted: 3/12/2006 9:20:29 PM
    In the last 3 weeks I have put a number of articles regarding porn on the blog.

    Also, if you click on the ARTICLES section on this site - there are many articles about Porn and men. 

    if its bothering you and he doesn‘t take your concerns seriously, and/or its interfering with your relationship - maybe short term couples counseling?  or and then he can look at allllllll the porn he wants.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com


    Topic: I think I may be abusive ... what can I do?
    Subject: I think I may be abusive ... what can I do? - Posted: 3/12/2006 9:24:03 PM
    Am I abusive?

    Every month I receive a number of emails from both men and women who are concerned that they may be abusive towards their partner. You may have read through Domestic Abuse sites and recognised yourself in some of the pages, or your partner may have told you that your behaviour towards her/him is abusive and told you how much you hurt and upset them.

    If you are not quite sure whether your actions could be considered abusive or not, read through the Warning Signs of an Abusive Personality and search your heart. Are any of those actions or attitudes ones you tend towards? You may also find it helpful to read the article by John Stibbs on healthy and unhealthy relationships: Emotional Boundaries. Does your relationship tend more towards a healthy or an unhealthy one?

    Maybe you could ask yourself some of the following questions:

    • would you treat your boss, mate or next-door-neighbour the same way as you do your partner?
    • if someone else were treating your daughter, son, brother, sister or friend the same way as you treat your partner, would you consider it okay or not?
    • has your partner told you that your behaviour is unreasonable or abusive?
    • has your partner either left you or threatened to leave you if you don‘t stop being nasty to her/him?
    • have previous relationships gone to the wall due to your behaviour?

    If you have answered NO to either of the first questions, and YES to any of the last three, then the chances are pretty high that you are abusive towards your partner.

    On taking Responsibility

    First of all, if you have realised that some of your actions and attitudes towards your partner may be abusive, you have already made a very important step toward change and being able to enjoy a mutually beneficial relationship. Well done! It is difficult and painful to realise that you may be hurting someone you love, but it is the first step towards change.

    The only person who can make a difference is YOU! One of the main problems with repeat abusers and perpetrators is denial of the abusive nature of their actions and attitudes, and denial of any ‘real‘ effect on their victims. Acknowledging to ourselves that we have a problem, or that we are hurting someone we love is very, very difficult and painful, and many people can never quite admit it to themselves.

    A lot of abusive behaviours are ingrained, they may have been part of your personality and coping mechanism since childhood, and they are difficult not just to recognise, but also to crack. Nobody else can do that for you, you have to take responsibility for your actions yourself - fully. This means recognising when you are saying something hurtful or doing something harmful to your partner; learning to recognise your reactions within yourself, how you feel when you get wound up, how you feel after an abusive episode; the thoughts and excuses you make to yourself to allow you to deny you are really doing anything wrong. Ask yourself some of these questions:

    • do you regularly vent your frustration on your partner?
    • do you tell yourself that your partner is overreacting to ‘being told off‘?
    • do you tell your partner they are ‘making a fuss about nothing‘ or ‘making a mountain out of molehill‘?
    • do you tell yourself what you do is not that bad, so-and-so would be far worse?
    • do you think that if your partner just didn‘t ‘wind you up on purpose‘ then the abuse would not happen?
    • do you tell yourself that your partner deserved the abuse, coz they are not perfect either?
    • do you tell yourself that coz you only get nasty when you are drunk, it isn‘t really the same as if you were really abusive?

    If you answered YES to any of the above, you may still not be taking full responsibility for your actions. It may be a good idea to discuss the abuse, your feelings about it and attitudes towards your partner with a third person, preferably someone not involved with either of you, such as a counsellor or helpline volunteer.

    Where can I get help?

    There are several Perpetrator Programs - call a Domestic Violence Center near you and ask for a referral to one.

    If you are facing prosecution for violence towards your partner, the Court has got the option of referring you to such programmes, and there are further programmes organised and run by the Probation service - though these do not usually take self-referals. Attendance at one of these will often be included if you are on probation.

    Things which are not recommended

    If violence has been, and especially if it currently still is an issue in your relationship, then Couples Counselling is not recommended.

    Nor is Mediation if you are going through separation or divorce.

    Basically the abuse itself has to be dealt with BEFORE any form of joint counselling or mediation can be effective, and in the meantime can, at best, deflect from the actual problem and fudge responsibility issues.

    In the past Anger Management courses have been recommended for abusers, especially men who have been violent towards their wives or female partners. However, more and more research seems to be indicating that such courses are not effective in dealing with abusive behaviour as such, as abuse is less about being able to control anger, and more about basic attitudes and control issues. In short, anger management may be part of the problem, but is usually not either the main problem or the root cause of Domestic Abuse.

    Will getting help ‘save‘ my relationship?

    It may, or it may not. Often by the time the perpetrator realises he or she has a problem, too much has already happened and the trust cannot be rebuilt. Sadly a lot of men will refer themselves to perpetrator programmes in a bid to stop their partner from leaving or even in a bid to persuade her to come back and give it another try. If you are seeking help with the sole intention or keeping or regaining a partner who has decided to leave due to your abuse, then you are probably approaching it with the wrong motives - more as a tool to get or keep what you want than as a necessary change in yourself.

    Perpetrator programmes or counselling can really only help if YOU want to change. You may have to accept that due to your behaviour you have lost the person you love, but at the very least you can try to ensure that you do not cause more pain and hurt to the next person you get involved in.

    Other issues to bear in mind

    Alcohol or Drug abuse. Frequently Domestic Violence is related to alcohol or drug abuse. It is easy to turn around and ‘blame‘ the drink for the abuse, telling yourself that you really don‘t want to be nasty, but that when you are drunk, you just don‘t realise what you are doing. I am sorry, but this in itself is another form of denial and blame-shifting. If you know that you get violent or nasty when you drink, or that there is a risk that you will, why do you continue drinking, and putting your partner at risk? If you are serious about wanting to change your abusive tendencies, then the first thing you will do is deal with your alcohol or drug addiction, and then you will be free to deal with the underlying issues within yourself which ‘allow‘ you to turn violent or nasty while either drunk or on drugs.

    Survivors of childhood abuse. A percentage of abusers were victims of childhood abuse themselves. If you are one of them, know that it is not uncommon to internalise and in some way ‘act out‘ the abuse you experienced in later in life on other people. There is help for you, and you would probably benefit from counselling to help you come to terms with your own experiences as a child and understand how they have affected you throughout your life and in respect of your relationships. Often there are a lot of suppressed feelings of anger, betrayal and pain which may in part be an underlying issue in the abuse you perpetrate on others. There are loads of support groups and counsellors qualified to help (check out the internet search engines or directories where many other websites deal with this issue in very adequately).

    Taking time out. One tactic or coping mechanism that many abusers have learned to use effectively is ‘taking time out‘. This basically involves recognising when you are reaching the point at which you are likely to become abusive, and literally removing yourself. You may go for a walk, go into another room or go down the garden and do some weeding. The important thing is to remove yourself ‘from the boil‘, take time out, and learn to calm down again. Obviously it would be a good idea to tell your partner you intend ‘taking time out‘ before the event occurs - or they may be left wondering what you are doing! It is not suggested that you use this coping tactic instead of counselling, but simply that many have found it helpful in avoiding abusive actions and making themselves more aware of what they are feeling and thinking.


    http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Abuser/abusive_help.htm


    Topic: THIS WEEK 3/6-3/12/06 ON WOMANSAVERS BLOG
    Subject: THIS WEEK 3/6-3/12/06 ON WOMANSAVERS BLOG - Posted: 3/12/2006 9:43:23 PM
    This week‘s articles on the Womansavers Blog (as always your input, emails and comments are welcome and encouraged! you can comment on articles on the blog by clicking COMMENTS below each article or email me via the link in the right margin of the blog):

  • MONOGAMY & ADULTERY
  • ARE YOU DATING A POTENTIAL CHEATER?
  • COLORADO & CONNECTICUT CHEATERS!
  • NOT TONIGHT, HONEY. I‘M LOGGING ON
  • TOP 10 INFIDELITY STORIES OF 2005
  • HOW TO HAVE AN EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR
  • MAN SCREWS HORSE - DIES DISTASTEFULLY

  • WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!




    Topic: One Reason Not to Cheat On Your Woman
    Subject: One Reason Not to Cheat On Your Woman - Posted: 3/13/2006 7:59:10 AM

    Topic: "MAKING A WOMAN SEXUALLY ADDICTED TO YOU"
    Subject: "MAKING A WOMAN SEXUALLY ADDICTED TO YOU" - Posted: 3/13/2006 9:58:20 PM
    This one was so gag-o-rific - I decided to put it here and share with all of you:


    How Would You Like to Make Her
    Sexually Addicted to You?


    • If Youre Ready to Make a Change for the Better, Read On.
    • If Youre Tired of Always Being Second Best, Listen Up!
    • Special Sex Manual Only for People Seriously Interested in Changing Their Lives!
    • At Last: The total seduction solution designed to help you make a sexual change for the better!
    • Youll Be Living the Sexually Satisfying Life You Always Dreamed of in No Time at All!
    • A Simple, Fun, and Fast Way to Take Control of Your Sex Life Instantly
    • WARNING: Do Not Even THINK About Wasting Another Day of Your Life until You Read This Groundbreaking Offer!
    • Finally, learn the secrets to living a sex-filled life that the relationship industry doesnt want you to know!
    • Finally, a step-by-step sex program created just for youher orgasm is just a click away!
    • At Last: The only way to gain control of your sex life quickly and find sexual success forever.

    Sexual Addiction... finally revealed!

    • WARNING: Sexual AddictionIts the One Addiction Youll Wish She Had. And, With Our Exciting New Guide, Youll Learn How Simple It Is To Get Her Addicted To You.
    • If Youre Reading This, You Have All That You Need to Learn How to Sexually Seduce Any Woman On The Planet. This New Program Teaches You How to Get Any Woman Sexually Addicted To You Forever.
    • Finally, A Quick And Simple Way to Take Control of Your Sex Life Forever. Made Just for You!

    Check out these new discoveries

    • Discover how this revolutionary new book makes seducing women as easy as
      1, 2, 3!
    • Discover dozens of ways to improve the quality of your sex life everyday!
    • Discover how you can change your sex life forever!
    • Discover the secrets to changing the way you think about sex forever!
    • Discover an insiders secrets on how you can transform your sex life for the best! Almost immediately!


    This new book will change the way you think about sex forever.

    • Discover how simple and effortless sexual success and satisfaction can be.
    • Cutting-edge guide radically transforms the way you think about sex. Find amazingly effortless results!
    • Pioneering sex guide actually shows you how to get women sexually addicted to you with simple-to-understand instructions and techniques. Reveal how you can attain the keys to total sexual satisfaction in minutes.

    Curious? Then read on

    Dear Friend,

    At one time or another, we have all wanted it.

    Some of us tried to find it more than others, but were all on the search for it.

    We have looked high and low, far and wide.

    Weve sought after it in books, videos, and self-help guides.

    What is this mysterious it you ask, for which weve all been looking?

    What is this elusive it we yearn for day after day, night after night?

    At its most basic, it is love. It is the desire to learn how to love fully, to gift ourselvesbody, mind, and spiritto our relationships. It is the need to be held, to be understood, and to be wanted. And, further, it is the yearning for companionship and for a commitment to the future.

    However, beyond these more noble desires, there is something inside of each of us that craves something more; something more than the white picket fence and 2.5 kids.

    Simply put, that something more is sex.

    We crave. We need. We long for that something more from our relationships.

    More passion.

            More sensuality.

                             More eroticism.

    The seeds of lust and sexuality lay ready to burst within us; barely able to contain our desires. We want to be able to feel the sexiness, to satisfy our insatiable hunger, and to act out upon our deepest sexual desires.

    Sounds pretty good, doesnt it?

    But, wait! Were missing something, arent we? Were missing a woman who craves sex as much as we do! Were missing a date, a girlfriend, or a wife who longs for night after night of sexual adventures. Were missing a woman to fulfill our every sexual fantasy.

    If there was only just a way to make the woman in your life love sex that much more

    If there was only just a way to make her want sex as much as you do

    If only there was a way tohmmmhave her become sexually addicted to you?

    Yes, thats it! If she was sexually addicted to you, you both could live the sexually fulfilling life that youve always dreamed of.

     But, could that ever happen? Her becoming sexually addicted to me?

    Before now, you might have thought it was impossible to have the woman (or women) in your life crave sex as much as you, right? Well, thats all about to change.

    With the Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You , youre going to learn how to not only get your partner to love having sex, youre going to discover techniques, tips, and strategies to get her addicted to you.

    Thats right. Addictedfor life!

    Imagine if you can: Your every sexual desire, craving, and fantasy all satisfied whenever you want.

    You cant afford not to take a look at this book. If you learn this book; practice this book; its your guaranteed key to opening the door to her sexual addictionthe one addiction thats great to have!

    Take a look at just a few of the incredible things youll learn in this must-have book:

    • Learn how to make women sexually addicted to you for life. (page 8)
    • Find out the 3 Must Have parts to a great sexual relationship. (page 9)
    • Uncover the secrets of exactly what you need to do to achieve her sexual addiction. (page 14)
    • Discover a technique that will make a kiss as good as sex. (page 36)
    • Learn how to avoid power plays and other negative relationship dynamics. (page 15)
    • Uncover the truth about what lies behind a womans doors of sexuality. (page 29)
    • Find out exactly how you can make the honeymoon period of amazing sex last a lifetime. (page 16)
    • Discover exactly how to get from hello to I cant get enough of you. (page 14)
    • Learn how to break that Rule of Diminishing Passion. (page 16)
    • Find out exactly what you need to do to unlock her door of passion every time. (page 25)
    • Find out exactly what you need to do to enter her for maximum pleasure. (page 43)
    • Find out how to get women to attend to your every lust-filled need and pleasure. (page 12)
    • Discover exactly how to seduce, stimulate, and sex women perfectly every time so they keep coming back from more. (page 26)
    • Learn how to get that something more from your sexual relationships. (page 6)
    • Find out how to make her want sex as much as you do. (page 7)
    • Discover exactly what you need to do to get women to love fellatio. (page 46)
    • Find out how to open the door to a womans truest sexual fantasies. (page 13)
    • Discover how getting exactly what you want in the bedroom is as easy as 1, 2, 3. (page 47)
    • Learn how to get women orgasmically addicted to you. (page 42)
    • Uncover the secrets of how to create an aura of sexual desirability around yourself. (page 19)
    • Find out how to satisfy your every sexual desire, craving, and fantasy whenever you want. (page 7)

    And, if thats not enough, you will learn guaranteed ways to seduce women, heighten orgasms, and have your every sexual desire satisfied whenever you want. And, how are you going to do this?

    You Are Going to Learn the Simple Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You- FOR LIFE!!!

    If youre like most people, youre probably wondering how any addiction could ever be a good thing. You probably like the idea of feeling irresistible to women, but are wondering if addiction doesnt have some kind of negative connotation. Youre probably asking yourself Cant people only be addicted to bad things?

    You are going to discover how to become the object of womens addiction by learning what it takes to become irresistible. And, thats the definition of addiction, isnt it? When a person cant help themselves but to indulge in a pleasure, addiction sets in. When its something like smoking, drinking, or gambling, addiction can have all manner of health or negative monetary implications. However, when you become the object of her addiction, you are actually allowing your life to become more balanced and healthier.

    Women will crave you just like an addict does a stimulant. In a physical sense, you will become her drug and everything about youyour scent, your skin, your body, your movements, everythingwill tantalize and tempt her.  

    She will constantly crave and need you to feed her high . On a psychological plane, she will feel that you and you alone can serve as her fix. Without you, she is lost and no other pleasuring will satisfy her in the same way as you do.

    Imagine that for a moment if you will. Imagine being the drug that sends women into ecstasy and sexual bliss. Thats your goal and thats your prize. Both attainable. Both soon to be yours when you start reading the Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You.

    Here are just a few more of the secrets that youll learn within this revolutionary new book:


    • Learn how to make most any woman multi-orgasmic. (page 44)
    • Discover how one simple choice can mean the difference between humdrum or out-of-this-world sex. (page 17)
    • Find out how to solidify yourself as the object of her sexual addiction. (page 30)
    • Learn how to make the woman in your life love sex that much more. (page 7)
    • Discover how couples in long-term relationships can reignite passion. (page 16)
    • Find out how to turn maybe into Yes every time. (page 47)
    • Learn how to read a womans Levels of Sexual Arousal to assure great sex every time. (page 26)
    • Discover an orgasm-winning alternative to the Wham-Bam-Thank You, Mam approach to sex. (page 19)
    • Find out how to turn a woman on even more as you please yourself. (page 28)
    • Learn how to read a womans Signs of Total Arousal. (page 43)
    • Discover how to become so overpoweringly irresistible to her that youll never want for sex again. (page 12)
    • Find out how you can leave boring orgasms behind forever. (page 53)
    • Learn how to speak in sexual shorthand to instigate sexual experiences whenever you desire. (page 45)
    • Discover how you can ruin her for all other men and become the focus of all of her sensual desires and thoughts. (page 42)
    • Find out how you can utilize a womans power to fuel her own addiction for you (page 21)
    • Learn how to use the law of attraction for unlimited sexual benefits. (page 15)
    • Discover how you can bring a woman to climax without ever touching her below the neck. (page 27)
    • Discover how you can have sex for hours on end without stopping! (page 32)Find out the 4 Cant Miss steps to the perfect kiss. (page 37)
    • Find out the hidden techniques to speed up a womans arousal. (page 40)
    • Learn how you can become more irresistible to women than you ever imagined. (page 25)
    • Discover the #1 thing you can do with women to assure great sex. (page 52)
    • Understand the step-by-step process that is sure to get you laid. (page 40)
    • Learn secrets to sexual gratification that might even surprise you. (page 17)
    • Discover the 11 underlying principles youll need to understand to guarantee youll become the object of her addiction. (page 12)
    • Find out the one secret that will make women do anything to have your touch her, to enter her, to make love to her. (page 27)
    • Learn sexual mathematicsunlike anything you learned in grade school.
    • Discover the 5 best techniques to doing it right. (page 43)
    • Find out the secrets to keeping her addicted to you. (page 50)
    • Learn the Sex Killing mistake that most men make over and over again. (page 18)
    • Discover the key to unleashing a firestorm of sexuality and passion and sexuality. (page 28)
    • Find out what one reward is even better than sex. (page 15)
    • Learn the 3 tastiest techniques to total satisfaction. (page 34)
    • Discover the one difference between men and women that will change your sex life forever. (page 17)
    • Find out what you need to do to have a woman fulfill your deepest sexual desires. (page 45)
    • Learn exactly why addiction really works to hook women on you for life. (page 49)
    • Discover the one thing that can make intercourse hotter than you ever imagined. (page 41)
    • Learn the difference between the right and wrong ways to kiss. (page 36)
    • Discover why showing patience may be the best thing youve ever done in your life. (page 30)
    • Find out why her sexual addiction does a body good. (page 24)

     Can Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You Really Work for Me?  

    If you are a man, Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You can work wonders in your life. Youll be shocked at how this groundbreaking book can change your luck with women forever. Stop wasting time without the answers. Learn exactly what you need to do to have the sex life youve always dreamed possible, but were afraid to try and get.

    If youre ready to have the sex life you really want; youre finally ready to achieve the type of sexual relationships that youve only imagined, then you owe it to yourself to put this extraordinary book to work for you starting today and begin reaping the benefits immediately!

    We want nothing less for you than your total and complete sexual happiness. Take charge of your life starting today with the Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You.

     

    With lessons like the following, you cant afford not to take a closer look at this incredible new book:

    • Learn the one conclusion you can NEVER make if you want to keep up the fun between the sheets. (page 26)
    • Discover why a simple change in thinking about sex will get her addicted. (page 33)
    • Find out why its important to start thinking about sex in terms of hours and days, rather than minutes. (page 32)
    • Uncover the truth about womens body that will simply shock you! (page 20)
    • Learn the one secret that all women want you to know. (page 27)
    • Discover why a focus on sex is good for you. (page 10)
    • Uncover the reasons why Motion is the Potion. (page 43)
    • Learn about the one drug that sends women into ecstasy and sexual bliss every time. (page 24)
    • Learn exactly what an amazing, mind-blowing orgasm requires. (page 53)
    • Uncover the step-by-step guide that shows you how to sexually devastate any woman with your touch and technique. (page 27)
    • Discover the steps to giving women explosive orgasms every time. (page 53)
    • Discover the shocking truth about women and pornography. (page 48)
    • Learn how NOT to make a mistake that could mean the difference between sex and the sofa! (page 18)
    • Discover the secrets to making your sex life is the envy of all men. (page 20)
    • Uncover the first key and most important key to having her crave you like youve never been desired before. (page 34)
    • Learn how to avoid auto-pilot, humdrum sex. (page 50)
    • Discover the one, surefire way to give your partner an extraordinary orgasm. (page 53)
    • Rediscover the power of the kiss. (page 35)
    • Learn the one thing that you absolutely cant do when youre having sex. (page 44)
    • Understand exactly what you need to do to create the perfect environment for sexual addiction. (page 17)
    • Learn the secret power of the Sex Kiss. (page 35)
    • Learn the secrets to breaking down the walls of sexual repression. (page 28)
    • Uncover one of the most powerful sexual devices known to man. (page 45)
    • Learn the secrets to satisfying your every sexual wish and whim. (page 12)
    • Learn the special techniques to creating higher arousal faster and more intensely with any woman. (page 31)
    • Learn what a woman absolutely must have to reach an orgasm. (page 19)
    • Understand how knowing the key elements of addiction can help you meet your every sexual desire. (page 23)
    • Learn why addiction can be a positive. (page 12)
    • Reveal the secrets to more passion, more sensuality, and more eroticism. (page 6)
    • See why acting out your wildest sexual fantasies is NEVER morally wrong or dirty. (page 10)
    • Learn why the clitoris *will* be your little key to success. (page 39)
    • Uncover the secrets to rekindling the sexual relationship where the passion has already fizzled out. (page 16)
    • Learn why understanding a womans definition of sex will make all the difference in the world. (page 33)
    • Reveal the secrets to a womans most sensitive erogenous zonesthey might not be where you think! (page 18)
    • Study the steps to finding successively more stimulating, more satisfying, more intense sex time after time. (page 16)
    • Uncover the Final Word on Orgasms. (page 52)

    Think About How Its Going to Feel to Have Any Woman of Your Choice Hopelessly Sexually Addicted to You!

    Think About How Great It Will Be to Satisfy Your Every Sexual Desire Wherever and Whenever You Want!

    Think About How Amazing It Will Feel to Be Able to Master All Sexual Techniques Quickly and Easily.

    What are you waiting for? Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You can help get you started on the path to total sexual fulfillment today!


    a sneak peak at just a few of the sections within the book to see some the stimulating topics that are covered:

    • Sexual Mathematics
    • Sexually Addicted: One Place Where Addiction Is A-OK
    • Bartender, Another Round of Lovemaking, Please
    • From Head to Toe, Everywhere Youll Want to Go
    • Wham-Bam-No Thank You, Man!
    • The Sexual Addicts Checklist
    • Addiction Has Fringe Benefits
    • Sex: Its in Her. Is It in You?
    • The Fab 5: Rules of Sexual Addiction
    • Tease Her to Please Her
    • Ready, Set, Give: Please Her to Appease Her
    • Let her Be All She Can Be
    • Remember Sex is a TrifectaBody, Mind, and Heart
    • Dont Stop. Dont Stop. Youve Only Just Begun
    • 3 Tasty Techniques to Total Satisfaction
    • Hooked On YouIt Starts with a Kiss
    • Taking It Below Belt
    • The Clitoris: Your One Little Key to Success
    • Orgasmically Addicted
    • Why Size Really Does Matter
    • Motion Is the Potion
    • Dont Stop, Dont Stop
    • The Big Bang: Sexual Enhancers for Even More Pleasure
    • Your Inside-Her Secrets
    • Fun with Fellatio or Ready, Set, Blow
    • Giving to Receive: Where Generosity Has Its Benefits
    • The Shocking Truth about Pornography
    • Why Addiction Really Works
    • Orgasms: The Final Word

    Use Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You and youll discover hundreds of ways to improve your sex life and find the women in it becoming sexually hooked and addicted on you.

    Youve read what Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You can do for you.

    Youve seen many of the benefits this book will offer to you and your sex life.

    • Now, its time to discover the of Secrets of How to Make a Woman Sexually Addicted to You and put them to use in your life.

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     Ask Yourself the This Question:
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    Grab your copy now and learn how to get girls sexually addicited to you!


    http://www.secretsofsexualaddiction.com/

    Topic: funny?
    Subject: funny? - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:50:05 AM
    Laugh all you like ladies.  On the blog a few weeks ago I posted some stuff from a site called fastseduction.com.  Now, on its face its very funny - but

    This shit uses a method called NeuroLinguistic Programming (NLP) its used in sales, advertising, politics and people like Tony Robbins market it to people who want to be more successful.  However, NLP uses imbedded words and phrases which, over time, can really mess with your head.

    Abusers, players, etc also use it.  At one time it NEVER occured to me that these guys would USE this against a woman to make her BELIEVE it was love and then fuck her and yank the rug out from under her.  I thought it was a total joke.

    Now? I have lost count of the woman I have counseled who laughed and SWORE they were too savvy, smart and this stuff was a big joke - who contacted me a year or two later and said "OMG!!! It was done to me! And I had NO IDEA"

    Check http://www.seducersworld.com - click on CHAPTERS on the left and please read the whole excerpt.  And go to the ARTICLES section here and read the one called "How They Do It"

    Laugh if you will but think about your ex.... READ ON
    ~~~~~

    by Robert Greene

    Charm, persuasion, the ability to create illusions: these are some of the many dazzling gifts of the Seducer, the compelling figure who is able to manipulate, mislead, and give pleasure all at once.  When raised to the level of art, seduction, an indirect and subtle form of power, has toppled empires, won elections, and enslaved great minds.

    Seduce ... or be seduced

    Choose the Right Target

    Study your prey thoroughly.  The right targets are those for whom you can fill a void.  The perfect target allows for the perfect chase.
    Create a False Sense of Security - Approach Indirectly

    The seduction should begin at an angle so that the target only gradually becomes aware of you.  Haunt the periphery of your target‘s life.

    Send Mixed Signals

    A mix of qualities suggests depth, which fascinates as it confuses.

    Appear to Be an Object of Desire

    Make your targets hungry to possess you.  It will become a point of vanity for them to be the preferred object of your attention.

    Create a Need - Stir Anxiety and Discontent

    A perfectly satisfied person cannot be seduced.

    Master the Art of Insinuation

    Create a sublanguage - bold statements followed by retraction and apology, banal talk combined with alluring glances.  make everything suggestive.

    Enter Their Spirit

    Play by your targets‘ rules.  In doing so you will stroke their deep-rooted narcissism and lower their defenses.

    Create Temptation

    Lure the target by creating a glimpse of the pleasures to come.

    Keep Them in Suspense

    The moment people feel they know what to expect from you, you spell on them is broken.  Give the target a thrill with a sudden change of direction.

    Use the Power of Words to Sow Confusion

    The trick to making people listen is to say what they want to hear.  Flatter them.

    Pay Attention to Detail

    Lofty words of love and grand gestures can be suspicious.  The subtle gestures and the offhand things you do are often more charming.

    Poeticize Your Presence

    - Intrigue your target by altering an exciting presence with a cool distance, exuberant moments followed by calculated absences.

    Disarm Through Strategic Weakness and Vulnerability

    Too much maneuvering on your part may raise suspicion.  The best way to cover your tracks is to make the other person feel superior and stronger.

    Confuse Desire and Reality

    Create the Perfect Illusion  - Aim at secret wishes that have been thwarted or repressed, stirring up uncontrollable emotions, clouding a victim‘s powers of reason.

    Isolate the Target

    Take your targets away from their normal milieu, friends, family, home.  With no outside support, an isolated person is easily led astray.

    Prove Yourself

    One well-timed action that shows how far you are willing to go to win your target over will dispel doubts.

    Effect a Regression

    People who have experienced a certain kind of pleasure in the past will try to repeat or relive it.

    Stir Up the Transgressive and Taboo
    People yearn to explore their dark side.  Take your targets further than they imagine - the shared feeling of guilt and complicity will create a powerful bond.
    Use Spiritual Lures

    Everyone has doubts and insecurities about their physical presence.  Lure them out of their insecurities by making them focus on something sublime and spiritual.

    Mix Pleasure with Pain

    The greatest mistake in seduction is being too nice.

    Give Them Space to Fall

    The Pursuer is Pursued - Hint that you are growing bored.  Seem interested in someone else.  Create the illusion that the seducer is being seduced.

    Use Physical Lures

    Targets with active minds are dangerous.  Put their minds gently to rest and waken their dormant senses by combining a non-defensive attitude with a charged sexual pleasure.

    Master the Art of the Bold Move

    Don‘t give the target time to consider the consequences.  One person must go on the offensive, and it is you.

    Beware the After-effects

    Never let the other person take you for granted.  Use absence, create pain and conflict, to keep the seduced on tenterhooks.
    ~~~
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: yes but......
    Subject: yes but...... - Posted: 3/14/2006 6:00:11 AM
    LittleMissWomansaver wrote:
    Without love, you cant have REALLY "great" sex, only a great mechanical-type orgasm that leaves you feeling empty later on which sucks.


    I don‘t understand it either - but there are a LOT of hollow people out there who are into the SEX, the LUST and the GAME and will do whatever it takes to manipulate people.  Therefore - they give the ILLUSION of love and take the great sex - while we are left holding the "bag" of lies.

    Some of them even buy their own bullshit for a while.  Its sad but until women (and men) realize that all too often they are TARGETS - they will continue to be blind to this sort of thing.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: My Dilemma
    Subject: My Dilemma - Posted: 3/14/2006 7:50:27 AM
    Rhiannon

    You ARE going through something very real.  A little present the jerk left you - POST TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME.  Whether the trauma was physical or emotional - what you are feeling is VERY VERY REAL!  Dealing with the abuser/loser can be a massive trigger for all this and its not in your head.  It‘s real.

    You might consider going to your Dr. and asking for low-dose Valium for a few days to relax & sleep (antidepressants take 3-6 weeks to build up in your system and you don‘t seem to need them when he‘s not involved)

    He owes and don‘t be surprised if he doesn‘t show or lies more in court.  Either way - PRESS to have him spend a little time in a jail cell for doing so... Oh, and see if your attorney will throw in "INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS" on top of all that?  Would be worth a shot.

    Whether or not he is a narcissist, some of the things in this piece might help you focus:
    http://samvak.tripod.com/faq78.html

    Hugs and hang in there,
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: THIS WEEK 3/6-3/12/06 ON WOMANSAVERS BLOG
    Subject: THIS WEEK 3/6-3/12/06 ON WOMANSAVERS BLOG - Posted: 3/14/2006 7:56:33 AM
    FYI

    I have added a bunch more links under the REVENGE, SLEAZE PATROL, FUN and WOMEN‘s Links sections.

    I am working on a DIVORCE and CHILD SUPPORT links area.

    If anyone has any links that would be useful to our members - please send them to me at womansaversblog@gmail.com

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Seeing yourself thru the eyes of your abuser...
    Subject: Seeing yourself thru the eyes of your abuser... - Posted: 3/14/2006 8:04:34 AM
    Masha - hes a sick twisted man.  You dont WANT to see yourself through his eyes.  Hes evil.  I sooooo understand your trying to make sense of him - but remember: YOU CANT MAKE SENSE OUT OF A SICK, IRRATIONAL MIND.

    If you are in NYC you might seriously consider calling SAFE HORIZON (http://www.safehorizon.org/) and get a referral to a counselor.  Many abuse counselor do sliding scale.  I also know of a private therapist (if you are interested) in NYC who is very good - email me at the blog.  And go to the ABUSE EMERGENCIES section here for even more links & resources near you.  You have been damaged.

    Institute NO CONTACT with this soul sucking creature and get some short term counseling to deal with what hes done to you.  Just saying NO isnt enough when you have been in the grip of these types of people. (do a web search on "STOCKHOLM SYNDROME" to understand this better. And "TRAUMA BONDING" also)

    Check the Blog for ABUSE links - and go read read read the sites, the links, the groups.  Get therapy for You.  No contact.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Reality Check---What they say and what it really means.
    Subject: Reality Check---What they say and what it really means. - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:45:27 PM
    These are some of my favorites:

    http://www.youareatarget.com/theysaidwhat.html

    http://groups.msn.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/translationguide.msnw

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Miami cheater using personals site, watch out ladies
    Subject: Miami cheater using personals site, watch out ladies - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:50:12 PM
    Welcome to Womansavers.

    1. You should post the guy here on RATE A GUY
    2. Go to the blog (URL below) and check the REVENGE links and post him everywhere
    3. Go to http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com and check their links and post him everywhere
    4. Stick around here, good people & supportive

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: caught my boyfriend cheating on Myspace and AIM
    Subject: caught my boyfriend cheating on Myspace and AIM - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:52:05 PM
    Welcome to Womansavers.

    1. You should post the guy here on RATE A GUY
    2. Go to the blog (URL below) and check the REVENGE links and post him everywhere
    3. Go to http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com and check their links and post him everywhere (read about these online players there too)
    4. Stick around here, good people & supportive 

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Seeing yourself thru the eyes of your abuser...
    Subject: Seeing yourself thru the eyes of your abuser... - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:54:13 PM
    MashaNYC wrote:
    Hi BMW! Thanks for the tip :)
    Im going to try to find a therapist. I used to go to one but it was a little expensive, a sliding scale would be good. if you want email me the doctors name and Im going to do some research.

     



    Email me at womansaversblog@gmail.com

    Also, use our ABUSE EMERGENCIES link, call Safe Horizons - get some referrals.

    And go to the blog and find the article on HOOVERING and don‘t let him HOOVER you again. 

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: CHARACTERISTICS OF ABUSED PERSONS
    Subject: CHARACTERISTICS OF ABUSED PERSONS - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:57:18 PM
    Rhiannon wrote:

    Sometimes, though, abusive men are drawn to really strong women with confidence. They will zero in on them, flatter them, and then actively work on knocking them down - peg by peg - over a period of time.  When my ex-husband dated me, he told me I was the most wonderful woman, and he raved about everything I did.  He made me feel beautiful, accomplished and talented.  That is how a lot of these men draw women in.  Many times this process doesnt actively start until after they are married.



    You might find this interesting reading:

    http://groups.msn.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/whogetstargeted.msnw

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: WHAT IS ABUSE?
    Subject: WHAT IS ABUSE? - Posted: 3/14/2006 5:59:41 PM
    QueenEster wrote:


    Does it have to be all of these or just some.  I had this problem with hubby forcing sex on me when I was sleeping.  He would also tell me to strip when I wasnt in the mood and get mad becuase I didnt.  But THen again all apply with the Psychological abuse and Economic Abuse.  How do you prove that in court.  Is it here say? 


    Just some.

    Ask an attorney as well as your therapist.  Proving the intentional infliction of psychological distress isn‘t hard - but only your attorney & therapist can answer that.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    ps - what a disrespectful selfish jerk.

    Topic: WHAT do I do about....
    Subject: WHAT do I do about.... - Posted: 3/14/2006 9:24:29 PM
    Try this board:

    http://gloryb.com/

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Psychological ABuse
    Subject: Psychological ABuse - Posted: 3/15/2006 6:09:22 AM
    uchew69

    Been there.... I know everyone here is yelling at you to get out - an in a way they are right.

    BUT, psychological abuse is covert and BRAINWASHES you.  Your guy sounds classic and very passive aggressive on top of it (ugh).  Scroll down to the ABUSE section on this board and read "FROM THE ABUSERS POINT OF VIEW"

    You may be trauma bonded to him - in which case you MUST institute NO CONTACT asap!!

    These sites will help you understand - read and empower yourself:

    http://www.rickross.com/groups/abusive.html  (LOADS of GOOD ARTICLES)
    http://www.youareatarget.com

    http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com

    He doesnt deserve you.  And its HIM not you thats the sick one.  If you need counseling, click at the bottom of this page on Abuse Emergencies - find a DV Crisis center near you and call for a therapy referral or some sort term counseling.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Psychological ABuse
    Subject: Psychological ABuse - Posted: 3/15/2006 7:23:30 AM
    daisyee76 wrote:
     I know all about this crap- my ex husband is a Harvard graduate.  I was so "perfect" for him before we married but suddenly after we married I was only good enough to cook, clean, and take care of the kids- and he never even acknowledged that it was hard work. Even when I quit my job to take care of home he claimed that I didnt take care of home good enough and that my sweats were unattractive, my hair was not done the way he wanted it.


    ABANDONING THE NARCISSIST

    The narcissist INITIATES his own abandonment BECAUSE of his fear. He is so afraid of losing his sources (and of unconsciously being emotionally hurt) - that he would rather "control", "master", or "direct" the potentially destabilizing situation - than confront its effects if initiated by the significant other. Remember: the personality of the narcissist has a low level of organization. It is precariously balanced.

    Being abandoned could cause a narcissistic injury so grave that the whole edifice can come crumbling down. Narcissists usually entertain suicidal ideation in such cases. BUT, if the narcissist initiated his abandonment, if HE directed the scenes, if the abandonment is perceived by him to be a goal HE set to himself to achieve - he can and does avoid all these untoward consequences. See the section about Emotional Involvement Prevention Mechanisms in the essay in "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited".

    The Dynamics of the Relationship

    The Narcissist lives in a world of ideal beauty, incomparable (imaginary) achievements, wealth, brilliance and unmitigated success. The narcissist denies his reality constantly. This is what I call the "Grandiosity Gap" - the abyss between his sense of entitlement and his inflated grandiose fantasies - and his incommensurate reality and achievements.

    The narcissist‘s partner is perceived by him to be a source of narcissistic supply, an instrument, an extension of himself. It is inconceivable that - blessed by the constant presence of the narcissist - such a tool would malfunction. The needs of the partner are perceived by the narcissist as THREATS and INSULTS. He considers his very existence as sufficiently nourishing and sustaining to his partner. He feels entitled to the best others can offer without investing in maintaining relationships or in catering to the well being of his "suppliers". To rid himself of deep-set feelings of (rather justified) guilt and shame - he pathologizes the partner. He projects sickness unto her. Through the intricate mechanism of projective identification he forces her to play an emergent role of "the sick" or "the weak" or "the naive" or "the dumb" or "the no good". What he denies in himself, what he is terrified of facing in his own personality - he attributes to others and moulds them to conform to his prejudices against himself.

    The Narcissist MUST have THE best, the MOST glamorous, stunning, talented, head turning, mind boggling spouse in the WORLD. Nothing short of this fantasy will do. To compensate for the shortcomings of his real life spouse - he invents an idealized figure and relates to it instead. Then, when reality conflicts too often and too roughly with the ideal figure - he reverts to devaluation. His behaviour turns on a dime and becomes threatening, demeaning, contemptuous, berating, reprimanding, destructively critical and sadistic - or cold, unloving, detached, "clinical". He punishes his real life spouse for not living up to his standards as personified in his Galathea, in his Pygmalion, in his ideal creation. The Narcissist plays a wrathful and demanding God.

    Moving On

    To preserve one‘s mental health - one must abandon the narcissist. One must move on. Moving on is a process, not a decision or an event. First, we have to acknowledge and accept reality. It is a volcanic, shattering, agonizing series of little, nibbling, thoughts and strong, voluptuous resistances. The battle won, harsh and painful realities assimilated, we can move on to the learning phase.

    We label. We assemble material. We gather knowledge. We compare experiences. We digest. We have insights. Then we decide and we act. This is "to move on". Having gathered sufficient emotional sustenance, support and confidence - we leave to face the battlefields of our relationships, fortified and nurtured. This stage characterizes those who do not mourn - but fight; do not grieve - but replenish their self esteem; do not hide - but seek; do not freeze - but move on.

    Grieving

    After being betrayed and abused - we grieve. We grieve for the image we had of the traitor and abuser - the image that was so fleeting and so wrong. We mourn the damage he did to us. We experience the fear of never being able to love or to trust again - and we grieve this loss. In one stroke, we lost someone we trusted and even loved, we lost our trusting and loving selves and we lost the trust and love that we felt. Can anything be worse?

    The emotional process of grieving is multiphased. At first, we are dumbfounded, shocked, inert, immobile. We play dead to avoid our inner monsters. We are ossified in our pain, cast in the mould of our reticence and fears. Then we feel enraged, indignant, rebellious and hateful. Then we accept. Then we cry. And then - some of us - learn to forgive and to pity. And this is called healing.

    ALL stages are absolutely necessary and good. It is bad NOT to rage back, not to shame those who shamed us, to deny, to pretend, to evade. But it is equally as bad to stay like this forever. Permanent grieving is the perpetuation of our abuse by other means. By endlessly recreating our harrowing experiences, we unwillingly and defiantly collaborate with our abuser to perpetuate his or her evil deeds. It is by moving on that we defeat our abuser, minimizing him and his importance in our lives. It is by loving and by trusting anew that we annul that which was done to us. To forgive is never to forget. But to remember is not necessarily to re-live.

    Forgiving and Forgetting

    Forgiving is an important capability. It does more for the forgiver than for the forgiven. But, to my mind, it should not be a universal, indiscriminate behaviour. I think it is legitimate not to forgive sometimes. It depends, of course, on the severity or duration of what was done to you. In general, it is unwise and counter-productive, in my view, to establish "universal" and "immutable" principles in life. Life is too chaotic to succumb to rigid principles. Sentences, which start with "I never" are either not very credible or, worse, they lead to self-defeating, self- restricting and self-destructive behaviours.

    Conflicts are an important and integral part of life. One should never seek them out willingly - but when confronted with a conflict, one should not avoid it. It is through conflicts and adversity inasmuch as through care and love that we grow.

    Human relationships are dynamic. We must assess our friendships, partnerships, even marriages periodically. The past is insufficient in itself to sustain a healthy, nourishing, supportive, caring and compassionate relationship. It is a good pre-condition, perhaps a necessary one - but not a sufficient one. We must gain and regain our friendships on a daily basis. Human relationships are a constant test of allegiance and empathy.

    Remaining Friends with the Narcissist

    But can‘t we act civilized and remain on friendly terms with our narcissist ex? Never forget that Narcissists (full fledged ones) are nice to others if: 

    (1) They want something - narcissistic supply, help, support, votes,  money... They prepare the ground, manipulate you and then come out with the "small favour" they need or ask you blatantly or surreptitiously for narcissistic supply ("what did you think about my performance..." "do you think that I really deserve the Nobel Prize?").

    (2) They feel threatened and they want to neuter the threat by smothering it with oozing pleasantries.

    (3) They have just been infused with an overdose of narcissistic supply and they feel magnanimous and magnificent and ideal and perfect. To show magnanimity is a way of flaunting one‘s impeccable divine credentials. It is an act of grandiosity. You are an irrelevant prop in this spectacle, a mere receptacle of the narcissist‘s overflowing, self-contented infatuation with his False Self.

    This beneficence is transient. Perpetual victims often tend to "thank God for little graces" (God being the narcissist). This is the Stockholm syndrome: hostages tend to emotionally identify with the terrorists rather than with the police. We are grateful to our abusers and tormentors for ceasing their hideous activities and letting us breathe for a while.

    Some people say that they prefer to live with narcissists, to cater to their needs and to succumb to their whims because this is the way they have been conditioned. It is only with narcissists that they feel alive, stimulated and excited. The world glows in Technicolor in the presence of a narcissist and decays to sepia colours in his absence.

    I see nothing inherently "wrong" with that. The test is this: If a person were to constantly humiliate and abuse you verbally using Archaic Chinese - would you have felt humiliated and abused? Probably not. Some people have been conditioned by the narcissistic primary objects in their lives (parents or caregivers) to treat narcissistic abuse as Archaic Chinese, to turn a deaf ear. This technique is effective in that it allows the "inverted narcissist" (the narcissist‘s willing mate) to experience only the good aspects of living with a narcissist: his sparkling intelligence, the constant drama and excitement, his lack of intimacy and emotional attachment (some people prefer this). Every now and then the narcissist breaks into abusive Archaic Chinese, so what, who understands Archaic Chinese anyway?

    I have only one nagging doubt, though:

    If so rewarding, why are inverted narcissists so unhappy, so ego-dystonic, so in need of help (professional or otherwise)? Aren‘t they victims who simply experience the Stockholm Syndrome (=identifying with the kidnapper rather than with the Police)?

    Narcissists and Abandonment

    Narcissists are terrified of being abandoned exactly as codependents and Borderlines are. 

    BUT

    Their solution is different.

    Codependents cling. Borderlines are emotionally labile and react disastrously to the faintest hint of being abandoned. Narcissists FACILITATE the abandonment. They MAKE SURE that they are abandoned.

    This way they secure the achievement of two goals:

    (1) Getting it over with - The narcissist has a very low threshold of tolerance to uncertainty and inconvenience, emotional or material. Narcissists are very impatient and "spoiled". They cannot delay gratification OR impending doom. They must have it all NOW, good or bad.

    (2) By bringing the feared abandonment about, the narcissist can lie to himself persuasively. "She didn‘t abandon me, it is I who abandoned her. I controlled the situation. It was all my doing, so I was really not abandoned, was I now?" In time, the narcissist adopts this "official version" as the truth. He might say: "I deserted her emotionally and sexually long before she left".

    Why the Failing Relationships?

    Narcissists HATE happiness and joy and ebullience and vivaciousness - in short, they hate life itself. The roots of this bizarre propensity can be traced to a few psychological dynamics, which operate concurrently (it is very confusing to be a narcissist):

    First, there is pathological envy.

    The Narcissist is constantly envious of other people: their successes, their property, their character, their education, their children, their ideas, the fact that they can feel, their good mood, their past, their future, their present, their spouses, their mistresses or lovers, their location...

    Almost ANYTHING can be the trigger of a bout of biting, acidulous envy. But there is nothing, which reminds the narcissist more of the totality of his envious experiences than happiness. Narcissists lash out at happy people out of their own deprivation.

    Then there is narcissistic hurt.

    The narcissist regards himself as the center of the world and the lives of those surrounding him. He is the source of all emotions, responsible for all developments, positive and negative alike, the axis, the prime cause, the only cause, the mover, the shaker, the broker, the pillar, forever indispensable. It is therefore a bitter and sharp rebuke to this grandiose fantasy to see someone else happy. It confronts the narcissist with a reality outside the realm of his fantasies. It painfully serves to illustrate to him that he is but one of many causes, phenomena, triggers and catalysts. That there are things happening outside the orbit of his control or initiative.

    The narcissist uses projective identification. He feels bad through other people, his proxies. He induces unhappiness and gloom in others to enable him to experience his own misery. Inevitably, he attributes the source of such sadness either to himself, as its cause - or to the "pathology" of the sad person.

    "You are constantly depressed, you should really see a therapist" is a common sentence. The narcissist - in an effort to maintain the depressive state until it serves some cathartic purposes - strives to perpetuate it by sowing constant reminders of its existence. "You look sad/bad/pale today. Is anything wrong?

    Can I help you? Things haven‘t been going so well, ah?" Last but not least is the exaggerated fear of losing control. The narcissist feels that he controls his human environment mostly by manipulation and mainly by emotional extortion and distortion. This is not far from reality. He suppresses any sign of emotional autonomy. He feels threatened and belittled by an emotion fostered not by him or by his actions directly or indirectly. Counteracting someone else‘s happiness is the narcissist‘s way of reminding everyone: I am here, I am omnipotent, you are at my mercy and you will feel happy only when I tell you to.

    http://www.drirene.com/8_nar.htm


    Topic: I desparately want to recover text messages
    Subject: I desparately want to recover text messages - Posted: 3/15/2006 3:52:57 PM
    I used to....

    You have everything you need.  He‘s a player and a LIAR.  Who cares if you are right.  You want to prove you are right? LEAVE!!

    Do yourself a favor and scroll down to the ABUSE SECTION and read some of the stuff I have posted there.  Engaging him any further in venting your anger, is only going to hurt you worse than it will ever hurt him.  The ultimate for these guys? KICK THEM TO THE CURB AND INSTITUTE NO CONTACT!!

    This jerk doesn‘t deserve your time or arguments.  They NEVER admit they are wrong.  He was calling them to tell them to LEAVE HIM ALONE???  That‘s a good one!!! I have some swampland in Florida to sell for anyone who believes THAT one!!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: At what age does an abuser start?
    Subject: At what age does an abuser start? - Posted: 3/15/2006 3:58:28 PM
    Unfortunately, yes they do.

    Abusiveness is a learned behavior from childhood.  Either they are abused and then psychologically identify with the abuser or they see that the abusive parent "gets what they want" by abusing and adopt it themselves.

    The flip side is children who had an abusive parent are ATTRACTED to abusers because they "go for what they know."  They believe this control is a sign of love.  Its not, of course.

    Read this article ECHO NO MORE at this site:
    http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/2006/02/echo-no-longer-recovery.html

    Even though it talks about adults, might shed some light.

    And I agree, no direct approach.  Remember how YOU were at that age?

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: More From: HOW TO GET THE WOMEN YOU DESIRE INTO BED
    Subject: More From: HOW TO GET THE WOMEN YOU DESIRE INTO BED - Posted: 3/15/2006 4:59:35 PM

    HOW TO SWIFTLY DETECT AND ELIMINATE WOMEN
    WHO ARE WACKOS, LOW-LIFES, CRAZIES AND SCUM


    I wish the world were fair. If it were, I wouldn‘t be sitting here writing this. I‘d be a an independently wealthy multi-millionaire playboy, on my own beautiful tropical island, surrounded by the entire UCLA Women‘s Volleyball team thinking up new ways to be nice to me.

    Ahemm.

    But life ISN‘T fair. And one of the most unfair realities is that MOST of the women you meet are not going to be decent, intelligent, together pinnacles of love, joy and self-esteem, dying to meet you and fulfill your life in every way possible.

    Nope. Most women are seriously dinged in one way or another.

    Maybe it‘s the impossible expectations of society that does it. Maybe it‘s the horrible early training or just biology. Whatever the reason, it is a fact you must be prepared for.

    So many times I would fall head over heels in love with a woman just because she had a few characteristics I really liked. I think I did it because I truly do like people and enjoy the feeling of liking someone.

    But man, did I get my head kicked in.

    Tattoo this on the inside of your eyelids: Just because a woman is gorgeous or fun or smart or (fill in your favorite here) doesn‘t say BEANS about her character.

    Many women with great personalities have terrible characters. I‘ve met women who are witty, brilliant and tons of fun and GORGEOUS to boot who would have no second thought about stealing you blind in a second. Or doing whatever whim crossed their mind at the moment.

    These ladies live by one rule: I‘M NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING UNLESS I ABSOLUTELY FEEL LIKE IT AT THE MOMENT.

    Charming flakes like this can really put your head (not to mention other parts) through the ringer.

    Then their are ladies with great personalities, great characters, and even great looking. But they have one small problem:

    THEY HATE SEX!

    That‘s right. If you‘ve ever read George Orwell‘s classic book, l984, you know how the totalitarian government did it‘s level best to discourage people from enjoying sex. They were successful to such an extent that people viewed sex as they would a disgusting minor medical procedure like having an enema or popping a boil.

    They even had a group for youngsters called THE JUNIOR ANTI-SEX LEAGUE.

    Well, l984 may have been fiction, but the JASL isn‘t. I‘ve used to date many of it‘s members!

    The best way to deal with all of these various varieties of low-life females is to take the same tact you‘d take with cancer: EARLY DETECTION AND SWIFT REMOVAL.

    To aid you in detection, I‘ve designed what I call rather modestly the JEFFRIES UPRIGHT/ UPTIGHT SCALE. It allows you to quickly size up a girl to let you know if she‘s got relationship potential or if she deserves no more than having one of the "quick-lay" strategies pulled on her.

    The vertical scale measures her enjoyment of sex. Not necessarily performance, but enthusiasm and genuine pleasure she gets out of it. Naturally, you‘d want someone with a low "uptight score."

    The horizontal scale measures her character, how "upright" she is. Lots of things go into this: is she warm? Does she treat people, especially strangers, with respect? DOES SHE DO WHAT SHE SAYS SHE WILL? Is she honest?

    This last is most important. I once worked with a girl who I consider to be one of my models for uprightness. In addition to her regular job, which she worked with me, she sold certain door to door kitchenware/soap products. She knew I had an incredible crush on her, and would buy anything she slapped down in front of my face.

    Believe me, lots and LOTS of ladies would not have hesitated to take advantage of this. But not Lisa. After talking to me for awhile, she realized that I really didn‘t need her products and she wouldn‘t let me buy them! She said she didn‘t feel right about making a sale to someone who could get a cheaper product that would do the same job for the particular need they had!

    That, my friends, is integrity and UPRIGHTNESS.

    Other qualities that go into this: Is she a giver? And, just as importantly, can SHE receive good things from YOU? Without feeling uncomfortable about it? One of the sure signs that you‘ve got a sicko on your hands is she can‘t accept someone‘s being good to her.

    Someone once described a good friend of mine this way: "She‘s really great to anyone who can take it."

    Pick a girl who can take it.

    When you meet a lady, size her up as the two of you spend time together, and try to put her on the uptight/upright scale.

    Here are some early tell-tale behavioral cues to let you know you‘re dealing with someone who is NOT going to get a favorable spot on the scale:

  • She talks about sex on the first date. Any woman who does this either has no class, or, far more frequently, is a prickteaser. If a woman talks about sex on the first date, or even pulls out a dirty drawing or photograph to show you (believe me, I‘ve had it happen) don‘t get hot and bothered! This is a sign of a sicko, believe me! Your best response is to act a trifle shocked and say, "I think talking about these kind of things with someone you hardly know is kind of vulgar, don‘t you?" Or, even more effective, "You know I find people who have to talk about sex right off the bat usually have a real problem with it!"

    That will REALLY PUT HER IN HER PLACE. She may even try to prove you wrong, by fucking you later that night. But generally speaking, you‘ve got a JASL member on your hands and are best off calling it an early evening. Tell her you forgot that you have to drive out of town really early the next day for a Three Stooges convention. Have some fun with it, but forget her, FAST!

  • She keeps you waiting a long time when you go to pick her up or does something else that is darn rude either at the beginning of the date or later on.

    Maybe she‘ll pull a flaky stunt like having you wait in the living room, while she makes a quick call. Then she‘ll get on the phone and chat with a girlfriend for an hour or so.

    Women like this are looking for a man who‘s going to ABUSE THEM EMOTIONALLY. They are testing you right off the bat to see if you‘ll be patient and understanding and if you are, YOU ARE OUT! She ideally would like you to pull the phone out of the wall, grab her by the hair and either drag her out the door or walk out, with her running after you.

    If the chick pulls something like that, you have to make a decision. Either give her what she wants, by aggressively telling her what an asshole she is and turning to walk out in which case she‘ll fall in love with you right then and there. Or, decide she‘s not worth wasting the time, wave politely, and get lost. Or, wait patiently for her to finish the call and then skip the date and screw the chick right there, using a quick-lay hypnosis strategy. She certainly doesn‘t deserve any better treatment!

    By the way, you may find it quite a mind-expanding trip to play the abusive asshole just once in your life! It is a far weirder and more mind blowing experience than any drug you might ever use - it‘s like being a new person, being reborn in a new personality and body. Try it, if only to see what it is like and to add to your personal flexibility.

  • She starts talking about her past boyfriends or other guys she‘s currently dating. This is more easily dealt with and not necessarily cause to relegate her to the "lowlife" category. Just tell her you‘d really rather not hear about it. This will establish you as having some balls and then you will have passed her little test.
  • She drinks or uses drugs to excess. If she gets riotously drunk every time you go out, consider the fact that you may have an alcoholic on your hands. Sure, they can be fun for a while, but I personally would rather not be with a woman who loves Jack Daniels more than she does Ross Jeffries.
  • She does not keep appointments or commitments. I don‘t know how "flakes" are manufactured; I suspect that they were raised by parents who put enormous pressures on them to perform on cue, so now they have a polarity response and refuse to do anything unless they feel like it at the moment! If a woman doesn‘t do as she says she will, dump her or use a "quick-lay" strategy.
  • She asks for a favor BEFORE you‘ve even gone out! Maybe she needs a ride, or some money, or even her car washed.
  • To hell with these evil little Nazi douche-bag exploitation queens. Fuck and dump time, good buddy! And DON‘T DO HER THE FAVOR. TELL HER YOU‘LL DO IT AFTER YOU GO OUT!

    In summation, I‘m no bible thumper, but scripture does say something very, very wise on the subject:

    "A good woman, who can find her? Her price is beyond pearls."

    Use the uptight/upright scale, and get yourself a STRAND OF THEM!

    http://www.pickupguide.com/gallery/miscgoodstuff/seduction.html

    GAG ME!!
    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com


    Topic: Professional organizations to cover up lies
    Subject: Professional organizations to cover up lies - Posted: 3/15/2006 8:49:46 PM
    (#@*$&@_#)*!@!*(&#$*$(@^#&

    You know, as jaded as I am, I never cease to be sickened by the low-levels to which some people will stoop.

    But nooooo.... cheaters, liars and abusers will go after those who expose them, tell the truth and sites like THIS that actually do some good rather than after the sites like those that facilitate man‘s inhumanity to (wo)man..... or vice versa.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Id like your opinions on this
    Subject: Id like your opinions on this - Posted: 3/15/2006 9:13:55 PM
    Well there‘s always this one:

    http://www.fuckingmachines.com/

    Again, DO NOT VISIT THIS SITE IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED and/or HAVE CHILDREN IN THE ROOM.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: MySpace wont delete abusers :(
    Subject: MySpace wont delete abusers :( - Posted: 3/16/2006 8:09:43 AM
    Masha - the sites DO NOT CARE.  It took a court order to get a known abuser who was in JAIL, off YahooPersonals that I know of.  MySpace could care less about the conversation, etc.  I tried to deal with an online stalker whose ISP was OptOnline and I got the same line of canned B.S. you did from MySpace.  Bottom line is THEY DONT CARE.

    So.....Your best defense? Go to the blog, under LINKS FOR PAYBACK & REVENGE links... and post this idiots i.d. and name, etc everywhere you can.  AND.... think about exposing this piece of dirt somewhere like this place:
     Exposing Online Predators & Cyberpaths

    That site also has great links.  Just think - he will be a famous abuser!! LOL!! 

    There are also lawsuits going on regarding dating sites fraud & abuse - you might consider telling your story to the legal team investigating this: (its for Match.com but worth a shot to write them)

    https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/internet_matchmaker_classaction

    Dont waste any more breath on MySpace or other sites.

    BMW
    WomanSavers: Research & Rate B4 U Date!


    Topic: The Black Widow Phenomennon
    Subject: The Black Widow Phenomennon - Posted: 3/16/2006 8:51:39 PM
    CourtTV.com has a nice file on serial and/or romance killers... including Black Widows.

    Female or Male - Abusers and yes, SOCIOPATHS tend to follow very similar M.O.s. 

    Either way its bad news.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: MySpace wont delete abusers :(
    Subject: MySpace wont delete abusers :( - Posted: 3/16/2006 8:58:57 PM
    I still think the best thing to do is to go to the blog and put his name, nick and email on every EXPOSE site you possibly can - so when someone Googles him - its there.

    You should also may join or lurk on this site:
    http://groups.msn.com/psychopath

    ...and learn more about these types before you do anything.  Theres people there who have been involved with them who may have insight.

    I also think you should DEFINITELY write the lawyers at the URL I sent you about the dating sites lawsuit.  The lack of accountability of these sites is horrendous.  Why ANYONE would EVER date someone they met online is beyond me? Yes, I know its not all bad - but its just too risky.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com
    ~~~~

    MySpace Is a Ticking Time Bomb

    Ive been dreading this post, but I cant avoid saying this any longer MySpace is a DEEPLY DISTURBING place. Its so disturbing that Im convinced that the vast majority of the Web 2.0 fan club who gush over MySpace has NEVER actually spent any time on MySpace.

    Im not the first to raise a red flag:

    Sex, Crimes, and MySpace
    MySpace Isnt for Advertisers, Its for Sex
    Scenes From the MySpace Backlash
    Prosecutors: Men used MySpace.com to meet underage girls for sex

    Try doing a Google News search for MySpace murder or MySpace sex and check out all the stories in reputable local media outlets (which have no obvious ax to grind with MySpace).

    Still not disturbed? Try spending some time on MySpace. See how long it takes you to find sexually suggestive or explicit content.

    Or, try going to the MySpace page of Reuters CEO Tom Glocer (which I found via I Want Media). Check out his friends, click around, and see what you make of what you find.

    Im going to be accused of fraternizing with Nick Carr for saying this, but this is what you get when you remove all social barriers you get humanity in the raw.

    Is this new to the web? Of course not. Is it limited to MySpace? Of course not. Does that mean we should start talking about censorship and regulation? Im not going to touch that third rail and I really dont have any answers.

    Im not going to do a moral critique of MySpace or Web 2.0 or anything else thats not my gig.

    I will say this my greatest fear of MySpace is as a parent. Thats my personal view, which I wont try to foist on to anyone else.

    But as Web 2.0 watcher, I have a strong view from a business perspective, which leads me to this prediction: Rupert Murdoch will come to regret the purchase of MySpace.

    Why? Because the reality is that MySpace cant be controlled, and thats a liability.

    Yes, I know, Web 2.0 is all about ceding control to the edge. But MySpace pushes this evolution to the extreme.

    Before you respond, let me be repeat this is NOT a moral critique. Its a practical, business critique.

    Social media may be all the rage, but society functions best somewhere in between anarchy and fascism. Let it drift too far to one extreme, and things can get ugly.

    And when things get ugly, its hard to sell advertising.

    from: http://publishing2.com/2006/03/16/myspace-is-a-ticking-time-bomb/




    Topic: need a laugh?
    Subject: need a laugh? - Posted: 3/16/2006 9:03:32 PM
    "I‘m sorry... I was drunk"???? ROFLMAO!!! But not too drunk to ****.  Lameass excuse number #2

    If you don‘t feel comfortable - why don‘t you print out the home page of Womansavers.com and the URL and tell her its a free site for those dealing & healing from jerks - then slip it under her door.

    hee hee hee - I love dogs.

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: What is a Hate Movement?
    Subject: What is a Hate Movement? - Posted: 3/16/2006 9:08:06 PM

    Misogyny

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (Redirected from Misogynist)
    Jump to: navigation, search

    Misogyny (/mɪˈsɑdʒəni/) is hatred of or strong prejudice against women. Compared with anti-woman sexism or misandry (hatred of or strong prejudice against men), misogyny is usually regarded as directed against women by some men, though women can also hold misogynistic views. In feminist theory, misogyny is recognized as a political ideology - similar to racism or anti-Semitism - that justifies and maintains the subordination of women by men. The word comes from the Greek misos "hatred" + gyne "woman".

    Forms of misogyny

    There are many different forms of misogyny. In its most overt expression, a misogynist will openly hate all women simply because they are female. Some sexual predators may fall into this category.

    Other forms of misogyny may be more subtle. Some misogynists may simply be prejudiced against all women, or may hate women who don‘t fall into one or more acceptable categories. Entire cultures may be said to be misogynist if they treat women in ways that can be seen as harmful. Examples include forcing women to tend to all domestic responsibilities, demanding silence from a woman, or beating a woman regularly. Subscribers to one model, the mother/whore dichotomy, hold that women can only be "mothers" or "whores". Another variant is the Virgin/whore dichotomy--in which women who do not adhere to a saintly standard of moral purity are considered "whores"

    Frequently the term misogynist is used in a looser sense as a term of derision to describe anyone who holds an unpopular or distasteful view about women as a group. A man who considers himself "a great lover of women," therefore, might somewhat paradoxically be termed a misogynist by those who consider his treatment of women sexist. Archetypes of this type of man might be Giacomo Casanova (a historical figure) or James Bond and Don Juan (fictional characters), who were both reputed for their many libertine affairs with women. While a "seducer" like Casanova or Don Juan might appear outwardly charming and to enjoy the company of women, many do not, at root, respect women or find them interesting on any higher plane than mere sex objects.

    Misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as a group, and as such need not fully determine a misogynist‘s attitude towards each individual woman. The fact that someone holds misogynist views may not prevent them from having positive relationships with some women. Conversely, simply having positive relationships with some women does not necessarily mean someone does not also hold misogynist views.

    Misogyny in philosophy and religion

    Many religions and philosophies contain what could be called misogyny. Paul insisted that women should not talk in church ("women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says." -1 Cor 14:34 NIV). In Hinduism, the Code of Manu makes women incapable of ever being independent. At times in Indian history, it was customary for a woman to be pushed onto the funeral pyre of her husband (see sati). In Islam, some interpretations of Sharia law forbid women to show any part of their body in public except their face, hands or the top of their feet. There is, however, wide disagreement from followers of these religions that these various teachings are misogynistic.

    The 16th century Protestant reformer John Knox wrote a book called The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women in which he argued against the ability of women to govern.

    Some of the most famous philosophers exhibited misogyny at times. Arthur Schopenhauer, in a very sophisticated epistemological discussion in his main work, included the sentence, "Reason is feminine in nature: it can only give after it has received". Nietzsche is known for arguing that every higher form of civilisation implied stricter controls on women [Beyond Good and Evil, 7:238]; he frequently insulted women, but is best known for the phrases, "Women are less than shallow", "Woman was God‘s second blunder," and "Are you going to women? Do not forget the whip!" Napoleon, Machiavelli, Aristotle, Tolstoy and even the progressive Rousseau were also known for making such comments about women. (It should also be noted, however, that philosophers such as Pythagoras, John Stuart Mill, Friedrich Engels, Fyodor Dostoyevsky and Henry George supported feminism.)


    Misogyny in language

    Many slang terms that refer to women are considered offensive by some women; such terms have existed throughout history, and change over time. Some of those common in contemporary usage are:

    • Babe: A diminutive or familiar way to address a woman. More commonly said to a partner, in a similar way to "honey".
    • Bird: British English, most women see it as demeaning. Also commonly used in modern Ireland where it is not considered very demeaning.
    • Chick: literally a young chicken or young bird of any kind, this term is mildly offensive to some women who interpret it to be infantilizing or objectifying; it is chiefly an Americanism. It is sometimes claimed that the usage derives from the Spanish chica (girl), but neither the Oxford English Dictionary nor Merriam-Webster supports this derivation. The word chick was used in a gender-neutral sense to mean "human child" at least as early as the 14th century. The popularity of the usage in North America may, nonetheless, be due in part to its similarity to the Spanish word.
    • Sheila: used in Australia.
    • Skeezer: used in some hip-hop recordings.

    In some cultural groups, terms considered extremely offensive to most women (e.g., bitch, cunt, or ho) are used to refer to women in general. Many terms that refer to women‘s physical appearance (e.g., hottie, a sexually attractive woman) see wide use, but many consider them to imply sexual objectification.

    MISOGYNY ON THE INTERNET: http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/


    Topic: when is cheating really cheating?
    Subject: when is cheating really cheating? - Posted: 3/16/2006 9:11:53 PM
    He is INVALIDATING your feelings.  Who is right or wrong isn‘t the question.  He doesn‘t take your feelings and concerns seriously.  Carried away? Sounds like he is also PROJECTING his misdeeds onto you because he is the one carried away. 

    Sorry - the internet is cheating IMVVHO.
    see:  http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com  for more info.

    and him? 

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com



    Topic: HE WAS A SOCIOPATH...HOW DIDNT I SEE IT?
    Subject: HE WAS A SOCIOPATH...HOW DIDNT I SEE IT? - Posted: 3/16/2006 9:34:47 PM
    Sociopaths fool even highly trained psychologists.

    http://groups.msn.com/psychopath
    You might get a lot of support there also from other victims like yourself.

    Womansavers.com is here 4 U too!

    BMW
    http://womansavers.blogspot.com

    Topic: Internet Lovers‘ Murder Plot Foiled
    Subject: Internet Lovers‘ Murder Plot Foiled - Posted: 3/16/2006 9:43:18 PM

    Woman Who Plotted Husband‘s Murder Gets 16 Years

    SAN DIEGO --  The wife of a sailor who plotted with her Internet lover in a failed attempt to kill her husband at North Island was sentenced Monday to more than 16 years in federal prison.

    Sharon Marie Ball, 30, pleaded guilty last Nov. 22 to attempted murder.

    Ball and her lover, Army Sergeant Jason Wayne Cline, 27, admitted that they planned to kill John J. Ball several days before the attack and had purchased a large knife two days prior to the April 5, ambush of last year.

    Cline, who was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, flew from Dallas to Southern California to meet with his co-defendant and carry out the killing, according to prosecutors.

    Cline and Ball met over the Internet in 2002 but didn‘t meet face-to-face until he flew to California to kill her husband, according to court documents.

    Cline, who served in Iraq, approached the victim, a petty officer second class, and cut him on the face, chin and hands and beat him with his fists.

    The assailant was captured hours later on the North Island military base.

    Sharon Marie Ball fled in her pickup truck and was arrested later, authorities said.

    Defense attorney Michael Berg said his client‘s name was on her husband‘s life