WomanSavers.com Forum / ABUSE HELP / The Process of Domestic Violence

Welcome LoveCaliGirl!  I hope you will enjoy this site, and that you will be able to find help and support here. 

There are lots of stories out there like these, and I am sure you have one of your own.

If there is anything we can do to help you, let us know.

Hi Rhiannon, and thanks for welcoming me. Unfortunately and fortunately Im not that new here, I just mistakenly thought things were all good at home so I disappeared for a while...they werent so I am back...dun dun daaaa....and

You are right about all these guys having the same MO, whatever the indiviidual story is, they all basically act the same and do the same s***. That is one of the things that makes this site so great is hearing other‘s tell of stories and emotion‘s that are so incredibly familiar....that gives strength to those of us who feel very alone in our disparaging situations.

Maybe we should have a program developed for couples to go through when they get a marriage license to help PREVENT domestic abuse in the first place, instead of us having to pick up the pieces of what‘s left as these guy‘s destroy families and spirts/hearts, leaving children fatherless.

It doesnt make sense that you need a college education and a resume to get a good job but no prerequisite education on family/relational values, and child care, before you get married and have children. Why not just give me a job as a surgeon and I‘ll learn as I go... on the job training. Oh sure, maybe a few lives will be lost from my lack of experience/education, but hey, I may learn how to be a good surgeon after all, and if not I‘ll just get another surgical job at another facility. Breast implants anyone?...OMG  

Kaylar, could you please write an article or "to do/not to do list" along the lines of what you were just saying last. "How to react to an abuser at the first signs of abusive-controlling behavior", or anyone who is trying to hurt and control their partner in various perhaps anecdotal situations. This could be a book for sure as so many of us would have preferred to have before finally giving up on our honest heartfelt reactions to being treated unfairly. While they seem to know how to "control" naturally, it would be good to Know counter-control to change course when headed in the wrong direction so they never use "that method of control" again and start using kindness, sincerity, compassion, and giving to get love and respect, admiration... or...ok, what is it they want if not those good things? Cause remember it‘s "damned if you do,  damned if you dont" in these abusive relationships. 

Keep writing ladies...and I will too.  Hopefully we can find a cure or solution to at least keep moving forward and bring help and awareness to this nightmare....    

LoveCaliGirl:  Well, whether you are new or not, you are still welcome! 

I find writing to be extremely therapeutic.  I loved everything you wrote in your post.  It is a sad - and pathetic comment on how things work in our society.  However, I will be honest.  The one thing I do not want to see happen is for the government to control who can and cannot be parents. 

I think there should be "Dating 101" classes in high school however!!!  Would kids listen?  I don‘t know!  But that is where dating starts, and those issues should be addressed.  When I was a teenager, if a boy was jealous or possessive, it meant he really liked you.  If you had a bad fight, well "true love never runs smooth."  And for every woman I know, falling in love is like "being swept off your feet!"  All of these are signs of an abusive relationship.

We get into relationships too fast, and often don‘t learn enough about the other person before we think we are "in love."  A girl with low self esteem will usually attract partners who aren‘t very nice to her, and that may be because she isn‘t used to being treated well period.  Being treated like crap may seem "normal."

The other confusing thing is the "Jekyll and Hyde" personality that a lot of abusers have.  They can be charming and really nice part of the time.  That‘s the guy we all fell in love with.  Life is sunshine and roses when he‘s happy.  When he‘s not happy, life is a living hell, and he convinces us that we are the reason he‘s unhappy.  Some of his excuses might even be plausible (after all, none of us are perfect).  So we become manipulated into thinking that if we just "fix" whatever made him so unhappy, life will be roses and sunshine again.  It never is.  And he keeps upping the ante.

We have to educate ourselves, unfortunately, and as stubborn and determined as I have always been, I am inclined to think I wouldn‘t have listened to anyone.  When I was "in love" I listened only to my hormones, and that - ultimately - is what got me in so much trouble.  I learned everything the hard way. 

I am glad you are here LoveCaliGirl, and I look forward to your contributing to the discussions.

Deedee:  I know you are trying to work on your marriage, and that you believe your husband has "changed."

For your sake, I hope that you are right.

I am not here to challenge you or beat up on you for the choice you have made.  I wish you well in all of it - I really do.  Even though I have reservations and more than a little skepticism regarding your husband, I wish no ill will on you or your marriage. 

The concern I have with you telling people how he has "changed" is that it could give other victims "hope" that their abusive partners will "change" and God knows, they all want them to. The statistics do not support that this happens, and my concern is that when women stay, they endanger their lives, and the lives of their children. 

If your husband is the 1% more power to you.  It doesn‘t make the 99% out there any less dangerous.  And I wouldn‘t trust anything until all his "court ordered obligations" are completely behind him, and he‘s consistently "behaved well" for quite a few years.

I did exactly what you did for quite a few years when I was married.  I was also known to leave the house when he was inappropriate and would say that I‘d be willing to discuss things with him when he decided to be "calm" and "rational."  That sometimes "worked" - for the short term - but ultimately, he just became more and more abusive. 

Blaming, guilt trips, name calling, criticisms - are all part of it, and if he is still doing it (even in a "soft" voice) - he hasn‘t changed. 

My therapist told me that anger management usually makes smarter, better batterers.  They find "other" ways to get you.  Manipulative behavior is common, and they are addicted to power and control.  Those behaviors are there, even when they are being "nice."

There isnt a best way to handle it, I think.

I used to try that, take that approach in an attempt to stick up for myself and not allow my exh to vent his frustrations out on me.

I would try "calm" but when my exh was fired up, calm wouldnt even enter the equation.

Calm got me a few slaps, cost me more than I care to remember amounts of hair pulled out, and ofcourse the occassional spit in the face.

Shutting up and taking it (God how that makes me cringe typing this now) was the only approach that worked, for HALF the time.

I‘m glad you retracted this "advice" DD, I would hate for some people to be misled.

I have to be honest and say that if I had come here while still with my husband, not yet having done the NC, I would have clung to your words for dear life. I would have seen them as an excuse to stay and keep believing he would change .....THAT would have seemed the lesser of the evils. Leaving an abusive man we love with all our hearts is an all-time killer emotionally and mentally. The pain involved renders us totally.

I thinks its important for us all to be able to relect back and truely acknowledge just how bloody vulnerable we all were or are.

DeeDee5 wrote:

tula1969 wrote: DeeDee5 wrote: Rhi....This sentence stuck out to me in your post...quote..When he‘s not happy, life is a living hell, and he convinces us that we are the reason he‘s unhappy." unquote. That used to be a big issue between my husband and I.  Although he would deny it....something would upset him and then he would take it out on me.   I knew I had not did anything wrong, it was him.  But I would be to afraid to "speak up" to him. Things have changed now..... The best way to handle that, if it happens, is to very calmly say...." Ok, now what has happened to make you so upset, I know I didn‘t do anything to cause you to be upset, so when you calm down and feel like you want to talk, I will listen, until then.....don‘t be callin me names.  I also would let him know that until he calms down, I would have nothing more to say to him, never put up with abuse. Usually, he would still deny anything is wrong, but later, when he calms down.....he would discuss it.   He would end up feeling like a heal, and then "explode" less and less, because of it.   ETA...At least mine did, it was a process, and it doesn‘t work with all men, at least that is what I have been told.  Sometimes men act like children, and NEVER grow up.   If that is the case, then it would be best not to even try. There isnt a best way to handle it, I think. I used to try that, take that approach in an attempt to stick up for myself and not allow my exh to vent his frustrations out on me. I would try "calm" but when my exh was fired up, calm wouldnt even enter the equation. Calm got me a few slaps, cost me more than I care to remember amounts of hair pulled out, and ofcourse the occassional spit in the face. Shutting up and taking it (God how that makes me cringe typing this now) was the only approach that worked, for HALF the time.   I‘m glad you retracted this "advice" DD, I would hate for some people to be misled. I have to be honest and say that if I had come here while still with my husband, not yet having done the NC, I would have clung to your words for dear life. I would have seen them as an excuse to stay and keep believing he would change .....THAT would have seemed the lesser of the evils. Leaving an abusive man we love with all our hearts is an all-time killer emotionally and mentally. The pain involved renders us totally. I thinks its important for us all to be able to relect back and truely acknowledge just how bloody vulnerable we all were or are.   Tula....I am so glad you decided to come back here. We both went through our abusive sh*t together, it was a very sad time in our lives. You decided to end it...., which I do realize how hard that was for you to do. I decided to try again, which was equally as hard. Right now, we are both happy and satisified with how our lives are going.......    Circumstances have changed, and we are both doing good, lets hope it continues for both of us, and lets hang around here and help the newly abused women who come here. As we have both been to hell and back..... Can we make some kind of a peace truce with each other?

DD

I was merely pointing out how vulnerable I was when I left my husband.

How vulnerable I am asuuming others in similar situations may be feeling.

Statistics and the common global consensus is that abusive men are not able to demonstrate any amount of consistent change without longterm intensive therapy.

I feel that if we were to advise women to change their approach to abusive situations, for example, take the calm manner, talk later etc etc, what we could actually be enforcing.......could be the element of self blame.

If we do this, or dont do this etc, etc, we CAN change the outcomes. You and I both know this is not true.

My post was in no way a reference to your current situation. Neither to prove a point.

I was merely suggesting that others less healed than myself may take hope from your words. I know I may well have 18 months ago, and hell even before that and I had actually left him.

DD I have said before, circumstances now will always see us singing from different song sheets. I am genuinely being sincere and respectful in my comments.

We are obviously going to be posting in the same threads at later dates. We may may differ, as is life and what I just said above.

No truce needed DD, just acceptance that we are on different pages.

Like I said, I didnt post to have a pop at you, just saying what I feel is important. If it had been someone other than you that had said the same.

My response would have been no different.

Thanks Rhiannon....and DeeDee, I am going through so much sadness here as the home phone rings it‘s my husband calling from jail. I was told not to answer it ( by my attorney/victim‘s advocate counselor ) cause I have a protection order that he is going against and he could get in even bigger trouble....and he keeps calling. He is upset I filed for a divorce this past Wednesday and Im sure he is waiting anxiously "to be served".

It is important to know I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO MAKE THIS THING WORK...sorry about yelling, but I fought hard for my marriage and if being the "submissive wife" or walking  away, or praying everyday, or WHATEVER would have worked, it wasnt long before it failed. It is my experience and a well documented fact it is "DAMNED IF YOU DO DAMNED IF YOU DONT"...there is nothing that can be done to get these men to change, UNLESS THEY WANT TO, and even this will take work.

I want you to know how much I loved him and STILL DO, it is beyond me that I can still say that but all I do is remember how much we "loved eachother" and the good times. Well, I dont know how it got so bad when I read every marriage book and worked on myself , and gave him so much love....what could I do? Nothing. Love is an action and he was all talk which became so verbally abusive I WANTED TO DIE, after all it must be me, and I am still going over this in my head to this minute. If only there was something I could change on my part to make our marrige work. After a while it feels like I have to change even the good parts of me, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. After being so mentally and verbally abused ( and let‘s just forget a physical abuse for a minute even though it‘s so serious ) I started to lose my own identity, my own purpose. I stopped talking to friends as he wished and tried to not be so friendly to people so he would not accuse me of being "a whore" etc.

So I sit here and still hope maybe a miracle and this man that even after he treated me like ****, will get out of jail and be like "OMG...what did I do to you, what was I thinking. I need help cause I must be possessed by darkness for hurting the one women who loved me so much, the mother of my beautiful child. I have been such a liar and a thief of your life and dream to have a family...im not worthy of you and will never be able to make up to you what I have done and said, never."...and he would say more, beg more, and oh yeah, prove himself with his actions and not his words cause talk is cheap. He did cry his eyes out once to me after he was so lustful and dishonest and disrespectful...he cried and cried and it was so amazing and yet sad to see my man bawling. I will never forget that night, but what good is it now, cause he became even worse somehow...IDK. I can only keep praying for God‘s mercy me as this is the most heart wrenching thing I have ever had to do, is file for a divorce from a man I still love and crave. But I had no choice.

Here you will find women who too have loved their man and too had to move on. Not only do I love him, but my/our little girl who will be 3 next month is desperate for him and says "I want my daddy, I love him",..."I want him and love him too" I say. While I feel foolish as I go over in my head all the sh**** things he has said and done to me, as well as, oh yeah, punching me in the face, strangling me, headbutting me etc. I will continue to pray for him to change and maybe he will be fit to be with us someday ( unbelievable ). Highly unlikely, but if I dont have some hope of a miracle then I cant deal with this. It would be so much easier if I just didnt love the man and feel (know ) he is my twin flame. It doesnt mean though that I will ever be able to be abused by him either though...I will have to love him from a distance and let God show me the way, a new way....faith. I will continue to look upon statements of faith and inspiration to keep me going like..."Ones best success comes after one‘s greatest disappoinments" and now I do not want my little girl to think that a man treats a women badly and it‘s not ok, no matter how much love and commitment.... 

So we all understand Dee Dee that you love your man, and no decent person wants their family split up and children missing their dad, but in the end if it does come to that, and chances are ( from personal experience ) if you are here at this site you have been feeling bad and alone and are trying to get a grip on this situation. You may also have much denial as to the severity of the situation. WHATEVER WILL BE WILL BE, BUT YOU ARE NOT ALONE in what you are feeling and experiencing and as you see I think it‘s ok to even sound crazy like I do and contradictory at times cause we are just trying to get through the pain and understand the unexplainable.

Stay close DeeDee and keep connecting here. We all hope for the best and hope all will be good for you too as happiness to can be shared. But just in case he goes wack we will be here to support you and well get through it together...

That was from the heart Caligirl

All I would offer is this. I felt everything you have spoken about.

Come what may, it does really get better, even though it doesnt feel that way now.

T

LoveCaliGirl:  Although I talk with a fair amount of detachment about these situations now, there was a time when I felt about my husband exactly the way you described.

It is gut wrenching to leave when you are still in love with a man.  I understand everything you are saying.  Yes, you have spoken from the heart, and my heart goes out to you in a very big way.  It takes a lot of courage to be so honest.

I‘ve felt every one of those emotions, and I know the first time I went to court to file a protection order against my daughters‘ father, I burst into tears and said, "I tried everything to keep from coming here."

And when he began to show "signs" of making efforts to change - cleaning up his act - going to church - losing weight - working out - dressing nicer - acting like a better father to the girls - in short, doing a lot of the things I‘d always hoped he would do - he started looking good to me.  He was civil and polite during that time - almost gracious - and I began to see him in a new light.  We began talking, and he just seemed like a different guy.

We were separated for 10 months, and then he moved back home.  It was not the "honeymoon" I expected.  I was trying very hard to be perfect, and do everything just so.  I really wanted it to work.

He eventually reverted to type, and returned to his formerly abusive self.  It didn‘t take long at all for the old bullying, controlling behaviors to return.  The 10 month "reconciliation" flopped, and then he did things that were really horrendous. 

Anyway, I am really glad you are here.  I am very sorry for your heartache and pain.  It will get better.  New awareness will emerge.  It just takes time. 

OMG....As i read your stories I can very much Identify myself to them, well the first one except without the beating...YET!!!!

I just want to say you‘s are amazing and fantastic story tellers and what you are writing is very true, every word and every sentence.

I‘d like to know what makes the abused become abusers, specially if they have the proverbial fairy tale start in life???

I read an interesting article yesterday about people that abuse animals.

T

Oh rest assured DD, we can 100% agree on this one. I absolutely DETEST animal abuse in any bloody shape or form.

But back to the first part of my question, what is your take on people who were once abused themselves, becoming abusers???

Hi ladies....You‘re all fantastic...but I just want to say this and not to go against everything that we know to be true because I do believe there are exceptions. Let me start off by saying my victim‘s advocate made the mistake ( i say mistake because it was too personal of information to diclose to me as i hung unti every word hoping it would be true for me as well) of telling me her own husband was abusive to her in the first five years of their marriage and he HAS GOTTEN BETTER. How much better, well these are the details I will probably never know, but she said he has to work on it everyday as it is never easy. Now knowing how hard this woman works in her field of protecting other women from abuse and being the first one to tell me they never change makes me think he A) wasnt that bad of an abuser to begin with or B) she has learned to deal with him and he has learned to get better a little bit at a time. But this is the exception and not the rule.

That being said, and I say this to DeeDee because I feel that PEOPLE CAN CHANGE...I have changed, so much, and I keep changing for the better (I HOPE) all the time. So, if someone wants to change, and they are aware of their faults/tendencies to do negative things and these negative things are not do anything positive for them, then they eventually must change or suffer themselves over and over again. If someone eats too much junkfood, they need to learn not too and start eating healthy. If someone smokes/drinks, they may always have a "taste for" a cigarette or a drink but they will have to be disciplined. 12 step programs, therapy, meditation, church/spiritual practice, and serving other‘s needs so they not always thinking about their own selfish desires and are aware of other‘s who may need help and care, will keep a person moving forward. Doing these things are not a guarantee of permanent success but if they/you fall off and binge, smoke, or whatever, you have to get back on the horse and just keep going.

I  know the prophet Khalil Gibran says" the human takes to addiction like nursing from the breast, only coming to the day of weaning when it‘s soul is put to rest"...that is true, but that doesnt mean that every person will indulge that addiction, or not re-learn how to do things. But it is up to one‘s free will to change, like Maya Angelou says,"when you know better you do better". If we can change, so can they. They just need to get out of their own way and realize they need to change and want to change for any change to occur. So even though it is our unfortunate experience and many other‘s that abuser‘s dont change, that doesnt mean that is so for everyone across the board, there are exceptions to the rule, and hopefully if it is God‘s will it will be so for some of us as well. I hate giving up hope, without hope I am hopeless, if I am hopeless what do I have to look forward to. 

So, while I will still keep going forward as hard as it is right now and feel that my man probably wont change, and that will be sad, someone else‘s man may indeed be getting better (DeeDee) and that is something that gives me hope. Cheers

I had hoped you were going to answer this. I was looking forward to your take on it.

We do have a lot in common, having both been subject to awful abuse. We know like many others here, exactly how it feels. Its soul destroying.

I was hoping you‘d share what you really thought about the abused then becoming abusers themselves?

Especially now we have reached a consensus of respect.

No worries

Yes, LoveCaliGirl, people can change - IF they truly desire to do so - are willing to take 100% responsibility for their actions - and are willing to work at it every single day.  It has to be their decision.  They have to believe that they have a problem. 

Most do not enter any kind of therapy unless it‘s court ordered, which tells you that change - for them - is not a voluntary move on their part.  It isn‘t unless/until a woman has left them, they are facing jail time, or are incarcerated that most will even agree to any kind of therapy.  The fact that they have to be forced makes it pretty unlikely that any kind of lasting change will result, because they usually will not do it on their own. 

Most of them are addicted to power and control, and live in denial.  In order to work on a problem, you have to be able to admit you have one to begin with.  They always have an excuse for their actions, and you are always the target and the problem. 

Statistics do not support that "change"  happens very often. Recovery rates for battering men are extremely low.  My therapist said they used to believe that "anger" was the problem, until they discovered there were batterers that never get angry.  Anger management only serves to make better, smarter batterers, and marriage counseling often serves to make batterers more dangerous. 

When it comes to change, I can say that many things about me have changed over the years, too.  However, the basic, core personality is the same.  I can make all kinds of changes in my life - new job, new house, new community, new friends, new habits, and even learn new things.  I can work on my personal habits.  But my faults are always there.  I can work on them.  I can modify my behavior.  But what I think, what I believe, my fears, insecurities, tendencies are all there...just as they have always been.

Power and control are the abuser‘s modus operandi.  I think it‘s dangerous and risky to assume that it ever completely goes away.

I understand finally now....When my I caught my husband with a girl‘s cell phone #, he was angry because I accused him, asked him and was upset.  She had been hanging on him before, showed up to our house to parties where I hadn‘t invited her.

Then the email from he wrote to another "friend" asking her to call him at his office,

He then made a big deal out of how I was wrong and the "jealous wife".  We went to a counselor and I agreed to jump into the volcano of trust with him.

So I completely quit looking to see if he was cheating. It was hard at first.  Then it just got too easy.  It was a huge amount of energy to worry about my hubby cheating.  So I just didn‘t want to know.  That way, life would be easy wouldn‘t it?  He wouldn‘t be angry with me.  I would just go by how he treated me.

  Then the verbal abuse got worse. The name calling, making me feel wrong about every subject, or not being able to combat the long list of how he was right.  If at anytime I told him how I felt it would turn into him yelling and screaming and angry, then sullen for days and ignoring me.  Then he would pretend that none of that happened.

Finally he had to actually come home and put it right in my face.  He had to tell me that he "accidentally gave his home phone # to an ex girlfriend"  He was patting himself on the back telling me how honest he was being.  He was just being hurtful and enjoying himself.  He must have thought about this one and how to do it for awhile.

This was all about hurting me emotionally every time wasn‘t it?

I was crying for what seemed a very long time. Weeks of just having break downs.  If most of you don‘t know I now have an order of protection against my hubby.  I filed for divorce.  I was crying because I did it.  I was crying because of the way he has treated me.

NOW I AM ANGRY.  I hate him.  I don‘t ever want to see his slimy face again.  His pathetic attempts to slyly contact me on face book piss me off.  I hate him for the way he has treated me all of these years.

I should have left him the very first time he threatened me with divorce......7 months into our marriage.  What a pathetic ass he is.

I dont know, Rhi, Im an idealist and a believer that all things are possible. If we were to just give up on finding a cure for say cancer, and say it‘s hopeless, the disease will never go away/change, then the cancer would surely keep spreading, and death would be next.

There must always be hope for people to change and get better, because if there is no hope for them changing, then there is no hope for us changing either.  Of course if a medicine is created, one would have to be aware of it ( realize they need to change ) learn about healing and take the medicine to treat the disease and change their thinking first before changes can occur physically ( show progression of healing-change through action-steps )

We may have to love them from a distance, but at some point, maybe they‘ll be enlightened and want to change for the better for themselves, and hopefully their children. With every action there is a reaction, and abusive behavior does not get them closer to God, to love, to peace, etc. So what good is it? They are lying to themselves just as much as they are lying to us, and they are hurting themselves too, by creating negative karma which will surely catch up. Now if that doesnt make a selfish someone want to change to avoid bad karma, what does? I just cant help but wonder what the hell I did to deserve this...exhale.     

The bottom line is, "HURT PEOPLE HURT" ....there is always a beginning, a middle, and an end, and it keeps recycling over and over until the lesson is learned, and the behavior changed....for all of us