WomanSavers.com Forum / MEN'S AREA / nice guys

I came to this site after an abusive relationship...so, whats your point?

There are lots of people posting here from all over the world, english is not their first language...yet they make an effort to type correctly....

Actually, I do have what it takes...I spent 4 years studying for a degree in psychotherapy and years before that working on myself...I have MORE than what it takes to recognise abusive behaviour. And, may I point out that a general negative attitude and mistrust of women is a HUGE red flag sir.

I am now in a loving, trusting relationship with absolutely THE best man alive today...I have no doubt of that. 5 years ago I didn‘t think it would be possible to be this happy, every day it gets better. We have had one disagreement since we have been together, we dealt with it like adults.Without voices raised or doors being slammed. We trust each other implicitly, there is never any name-calling, put-downs or aggression in our relationship...we respect each other, we care deeply for one another. Most of all though, its just easy, its not an uphill struggle.

I sense you have been hurt in the past also and I do genuinely hope that eventually you will recognise that your negative attitude towards women is doing nothing but attracting the wrong women into your life. Life doesn‘t have to be full of mistrust, negativity and bitterness, they are just your coping mechanisms, to protect yourself against more hurt. In the end though, they‘ll hurt you more.

"Actually, I do have what it takes...I spent 4 years studying for a degree in psychotherapy and years before that working on myself...I have MORE than what it takes to recognise abusive behaviour. And, may I point out that a general negative attitude and mistrust of women is a HUGE red flag sir."

Good for you, then. I have a negative attitude towards many things, and that never put me back with the ladies. What I have a problem is with women who are constantly victimizing themselves over "abusive" guys when they choose them over and over. But you had to take a degree to learn that ?

"I am now in a loving, trusting relationship with absolutely THE best man alive today...I have no doubt of that. 5 years ago I didn‘t think it would be possible to be this happy, every day it gets better. We have had one disagreement since we have been together, we dealt with it like adults.Without voices raised or doors being slammed. We trust each other implicitly, there is never any name-calling, put-downs or aggression in our relationship...we respect each other, we care deeply for one another. Most of all though, its just easy, its not an uphill struggle."

Good for you, then.

"I sense you have been hurt in the past also and I do genuinely hope that eventually you will recognise that your negative attitude towards women is doing nothing but attracting the wrong women into your life. Life doesn‘t have to be full of mistrust, negativity and bitterness, they are just your coping mechanisms, to protect yourself against more hurt. In the end though, they‘ll hurt you more."

I woundn‘t say I have been hurt, I just like to think that I am smart enough to protect myself against the dangers of the game.

No, your not smart at all...you‘ve got a lot to learn, as I said in general, maybe it will dawn on you sometime in your 30‘s, but hopefully before then...negativity, paranoia and mistrust breeds negativity, paranoia and mistrust in others.

You don‘t think your good enough to be with someone who‘ll stay faithful and not want to hurt you, thats your problem. Its not women you don‘t trust...its yourself. BUT...you‘ll probably get offended by that and lash out...ah well, I tried.

"No, your not smart at all...you‘ve got a lot to learn, as I said in general, maybe it will dawn on you sometime in your 30‘s, but hopefully before then...negativity, paranoia and mistrust breeds negativity, paranoia and mistrust in others."

Wheter I am or not smart, my girlfriend would disagree with you . And I am not paranoid.

"You don‘t think your good enough to be with someone who‘ll stay faithful and not want to hurt you, thats your problem. Its not women you don‘t trust...its yourself. BUT...you‘ll probably get offended by that and lash out...ah well, I tried."

You seem to forget that we are in this discussion because YOU attacked a few posts earlier. And you think it‘s strange that I respond back ? Your posts in this topic since the first one you directed at me were some kind of personal attack. You shouldn‘t think it‘s strange that I defend myself.

The fact that you feel my post was an attack says a lot. I was merely making some points...and I‘ve noticed your spelling and grammar has improved since I pointed that out, so you are obviously making an effort.

I won‘t ask your girlfriend thanks very much...I‘d seriously question how smart she is being in a relationship with such a bitter person.

Grow up.

"The fact that you feel my post was an attack says a lot. I was merely making some points...and I‘ve noticed your spelling and grammar has improved since I pointed that out, so you are obviously making an effort."

I "dont feel" like you are attacking. You are. Look again at your FIRST post directed at me. You were just attempting to get a cheap shot on me. Admit it.

"I won‘t ask your girlfriend thanks very much...I‘d seriously question how smart she is being in a relationship with such a bitter person.

Grow up."

Well, she is in a relatioship with someone very pragmatic about stuff. She is smart, she has never been in a abusive relationship ever in her live, and never been cheated as well.

I disagree on all counts....

And may I add...

Your inference that only stupid women are cheated on or abused in relationships is archaic to see the least...next you‘ll be saying that women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped.

Its not stupidity that gets people into these situations...again, your immaturity shows up...I hope your words don‘t come back to bit you in the ass!

"I disagree on all counts...."

Good.

"And may I add...

Your inference that only stupid women are cheated on or abused in relationships is archaic to see the least...next you‘ll be saying that women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped."

Only stupid women complaim for their whole lifes about being abused and cheated by "jerks", while having their babies and making similar choices for their whole lifes. Sorry, but I have seen so many of those things that I can‘t have any simphaty for women victimizing themselves over this kind of stuff.

"Its not stupidity that gets people into these situations...again, your immaturity shows up...I hope your words don‘t come back to bit you in the ass!"

It kinda is. For example, my next door friend has this girlfriend for about 5 years. He cheats on her everytime he gets a chance and she just pretends not to see it. Even her girl friends already warned her about this stuff that keeps going on and she doesn‘t believe it. She even had a fight with her mother over this guy, moved out of her house and cut communication with her family over this guy. Can I be sorry for a girl like that ? No, sorry, she deserves everything. Also, my cousin. She had an amazing boyfriend(on my standards, anyway), he had a job, wanted to marry, was stable, family guy, so on and on, and you know what she did ? Dumped him and is now going out with a loser who just wants to party, has no job, and worst of all, has already a kid with another woman and don‘t pay to support the child. Should I feel sorry for her ? No, sorry, I can‘t. Sounds familiar, bubblelady ?

Listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9p8D9ZjrGc&feature=related

Should I feel sorry for this woman too ? What do you think ?

I think that if you are in this kind of situation is pretty much your fault. In life you make choices. Your choices have consequences.

Oh, and don‘t worry about me, buble. I know how to take care of myself. The fact that you are insisting so much in this discussion makes me think that you have a lot more of that in your past that you are not telling here. Am I right ?

I have a past...as has everyone!

Why do you think I came here in the first place? To brag about my perfect life? Nope...thats neither realistic or self-aware....self-awareness is an important factor in becoming a mature adult...you should maybe look into that for yourself!

To say that people who go from unhealthy relationship to unhealthy relationship are stupid is just ridiculous! I‘m a therapist...90% of my clients come to me because they are in unhealthy relationships and I‘d say at least 75% of those have gone from one unhealthy relationship to another...the vast majority of them are college educated professionals in high-paying jobs, teachers, para-legals, executives...you get the picture. The common factor for all of these people is their childhood, perhaps they were abandoned by one a parent, perhaps their parents marriage was unstable, perhaps they were bullied, perhaps their wasn‘t much affection shown, perhaps their was a codependent parent and an addict parent, perhaps they came from a violent home, perhaps they were sexually or physically abused....their is usually one or a combination of the above. Now, who did have a perfect childhood...those people are few and far between, if we were not neglected then we were spoiled, if we were not spoiled perhaps our parents were to strict....there is no perfect parent! All or any of these factors will lead a person to come out of adolescence and into their young adulhood with low self-esteem, a feeling of not being good enough...its a totally irrational feeling of course no one human is better or more deserving of a fulfilling life than another...but people have themselves convinced that they lack something others have...it leads them into relationships with other unhealthy people, insecure, low self-esteem...and then, depending on the circumstances one or both will become an abuser, either emotionally, physically, verbally or sexually...its going to happen...but the real kicker is that if you have low self-esteem you won‘t leave! Because you won‘t feel worthy of a healthy relationship....you‘ll say, Nah, I‘ll hang around, maybe try to fix him/her, after all, I don‘t deserve any better.

So, all of that said...lets just say someone who is desperately trying to get out of a cycle of abusive relationships reads your last post...can you imagine the damage it would do to their already threadbare confidence and self-esteem...you think its going to help them to move on, feel better, stop being with people who abuse and cheat? Nope! Your comments are going to make them feel like they are less-than, not good enough....and their self-esteem plummets further.....be careful, be considerate, be clever. Remember where you are posting.

I once had low self-esteem, it lead me into a relationship with an unhealthy person. I don‘t regret a single thing about my past, its lead me to where I am now, I‘ve learned so much about life and people and myself and I‘ve made a career out of helping others to do the same....I would not be who I am today had I not lived my life the way I have...I am not ashamed of the things I experienced, I am extremely proud.

I do remember though, that when I was very insecure and had low-self esteem I had a very negative attitude towards people, It led me sometimes to try to put people down in order to make me feel better and it also made me angry and mistrusting towards people, I always expected the worst from people and thats what I got! You remind me a lot of me when I was younger.

I would have said the same thing "don‘t worry about me, I can take care of myself" mmm-hmmm...yeh, I soon got a wake-up call! Learn a little humility my dear, it will stand you in good stead.

"I have a past...as has everyone!"

Good.

"Why do you think I came here in the first place? To brag about my perfect life? Nope...thats neither realistic or self-aware....self-awareness is an important factor in becoming a mature adult...you should maybe look into that for yourself!"

I have prolems in my life too, but I wouldn‘t be victimizing myself over the girls I date because I CHOOSE to be with them. That is the truth.

"To say that people who go from unhealthy relationship to unhealthy relationship are stupid is just ridiculous!"

It‘s ridiculous but it‘s the truth. It‘s their own fault. Their choices to make, their responsibility.

" I‘m a therapist...90% of my clients come to me because they are in unhealthy relationships and I‘d say at least 75% of those have gone from one unhealthy relationship to another...the vast majority of them are college educated professionals in high-paying jobs, teachers, para-legals, executives...you get the picture."

I get the picture but that doesn‘t change the fact that those people choose the people they are with. They might have a thousand degrees, be men or women, have one million dollars in the bank. Still your choice.

" The common factor for all of these people is their childhood, perhaps they were abandoned by one a parent, perhaps their parents marriage was unstable, perhaps they were bullied, perhaps their wasn‘t much affection shown, perhaps their was a codependent parent and an addict parent, perhaps they came from a violent home, perhaps they were sexually or physically abused....their is usually one or a combination of the above. Now, who did have a perfect childhood...those people are few and far between, if we were not neglected then we were spoiled, if we were not spoiled perhaps our parents were to strict....there is no perfect parent! All or any of these factors will lead a person to come out of adolescence and into their young adulhood with low self-esteem, a feeling of not being good enough...its a totally irrational feeling of course no one human is better or more deserving of a fulfilling life than another...but people have themselves convinced that they lack something others have...it leads them into relationships with other unhealthy people, insecure, low self-esteem...and then, depending on the circumstances one or both will become an abuser, either emotionally, physically, verbally or sexually...its going to happen...but the real kicker is that if you have low self-esteem you won‘t leave! Because you won‘t feel worthy of a healthy relationship....you‘ll say, Nah, I‘ll hang around, maybe try to fix him/her, after all, I don‘t deserve any better."

This phrase here sums it up:

"but the real kicker is that if you have low self-esteem you won‘t leave!"

you won‘t leave, but it‘s YOUR CHOICE to. Nobody can make you stay if you don‘t want to, nobody can make you leave. If you find out that your wife is cheating and don‘t leave it‘s your choice. If you allow your boyfriend to mistreat you and don‘t leave, it‘s your choice. It‘s you who choose even to be with them in the first place.

"So, all of that said...lets just say someone who is desperately trying to get out of a cycle of abusive relationships reads your last post...can you imagine the damage it would do to their already threadbare confidence and self-esteem...you think its going to help them to move on, feel better, stop being with people who abuse and cheat? Nope!"

I am not trying to make nobody feel better. I am simply saying that you are responsable for your own life.

" Your comments are going to make them feel like they are less-than, not good enough....and their self-esteem plummets further.....be careful, be considerate, be clever. Remember where you are posting."

I don‘t think so. I think people need some pushing. I think making them feel like victims is  what will not help. People love to be victims these days.

"I once had low self-esteem, it lead me into a relationship with an unhealthy person. I don‘t regret a single thing about my past, its lead me to where I am now, I‘ve learned so much about life and people and myself and I‘ve made a career out of helping others to do the same....I would not be who I am today had I not lived my life the way I have...I am not ashamed of the things I experienced, I am extremely proud."

Well, that‘s it‘s the big  and main difference between us. You are proud to be cheated on, abused, whatever is that happened to you, but I am proud that this never happened to me. Understand ? And guess what, this will never happen to me anyway, cause I would walk away from any situation that is not good for me. When I see a dude taking all kinds of BS from a girl, and stay, just because she is hot, I can‘t help it but to laugh about it. In this life you must learn not only from your mistakes, but from other peoples mistakes too, so you are not the next.

"I do remember though, that when I was very insecure and had low-self esteem I had a very negative attitude towards people, It led me sometimes to try to put people down in order to make me feel better and it also made me angry and mistrusting towards people, I always expected the worst from people and thats what I got! You remind me a lot of me when I was younger."

Stop comparing me with you. I am not trying to put you or anybody down. I am just saying the truth about what I think. I am sorry if you disagree. Remember you were the one who started with cheap shots on me, so you are the one trying to put me down. So far,  I did not said anything personal or bad about you. I don‘t do this kind of stuff. So you are accusing me of what you are doing in reality.

"I would have said the same thing "don‘t worry about me, I can take care of myself" mmm-hmmm...yeh, I soon got a wake-up call! Learn a little humility my dear, it will stand you in good stead."

The only thing I can say is repeat again:

don‘t worry about me. Worry about yourself.

You are extremely naive...and far too defensive, which suggests to me you have in fact been very hurt in the past.

If you are under the impression that you are going to go through life without being treated badly in some way by someone, then you are going to be bitterly dissappointed.

Its lifes challenges that make us better people.

You seem to be here to deliberately insult people...I wonder what kind of person goes on to a website just to vent their anger and bitterness...and why? I feel terribly sorry for you.

"You are extremely naive...and far too defensive, which suggests to me you have in fact been very hurt in the past."

How am I being defensive ?

"If you are under the impression that you are going to go through life without being treated badly in some way by someone, then you are going to be bitterly dissappointed."

No, I won‘t. I will leave any woman who treats me badly. That‘s how it works.

"Its lifes challenges that make us better people."

So what ? Are you suggesting that I should look for bad relationships so I can have challenges ?

"You seem to be here to deliberately insult people...I wonder what kind of person goes on to a website just to vent their anger and bitterness...and why? I feel terribly sorry for you."

No, I am not here to insult nobody. When I did that ? I will remember again that it‘s YOU who is calling ME all sorts of names and taking cheap shots. The obvious reason for that is that YOU resent my opinions on the issue, and that really get to your head, so you have to resort to attacks to my person instead of arguing my points.

I already told you more than once. Don‘t be sorry for me, don‘t worry about me.

Everything you‘ve said in this post just proves me right.

I‘m hoping that after a month...perhaps your anger towards women and the world in general has dissapated somewhat.

I don‘t think you are a bad person, just caught up in some negative thinking perhaps?

Metta.

You say everything I said proves your point.

Lets sum up what I just said:

- I would leave anyone who mistreats me.

- You are calling me names, making attacks ad hominen instead of arguing my points.

- You should not worry about me.

I don‘t know how that can prove your point. I don‘t have any anger towards women, much less the world. I am just not naive. There is a difference between negative thinking and realist thinking.

Bye.