WomanSavers.com Forum / MEN'S AREA / Porn and Lies

My husband has done this, but the problem is that I‘m in my sexual prime and he acts like he isn‘t.  But he has signed up for porn (the chat type) sites.  If he paid money, though, OMG, I would be beyond pissed.  I‘m already mad because he uses porn in place of me.  Last year, about this time, he had told me, after being busted, that he found me unattractive.  He hasn‘t said it since, but he goes through phases where he starts in with the porn versus me thing all over.  I don‘t mind the porn, but I don‘t like being treated like I‘m unattractive, and I don‘t like the lies and sneaking.  He doesn‘t have to sneak to look at porn, but he does.  He‘s not even using it to masturbate sometimes.  At times, he has been on his computer, with me on my work computer in the same room, and I realized it later.  He obviously wasn‘t masturbating.  What‘s up with that??? 

You are right.  It‘s the LIES.  THE LIES!  And signing up for sites.....there is enough free porn, do you have to pay for it? I guess if you make a lot of money and your family can survive with the cost of the porn involved....okay.

Like many on this thread have said, this is a big problem because it may seem innocent enough at first but it can and does, many times, lead to infidelity.  If you can‘t be honest with her about setting up an email account, that‘s a big red flag for her.

You said you have worked it out.  I hope so.  I hope you continue to remember how she feels about it, and continue to seek the reasons why she has a low labido and what you two can do to overcome this.  I also hope you don‘t blame your lying on her.  A lie is a lie is a lie.

Busty - great post!

If they find it a chore to service us, then why even be with us, or any woman.  They have their hands apparently, and they prefer that? I don‘t buy it that most men prefer their own hand over a woman.  Why do they pursue women, just to find the hand more enjoyable? And the bots on the internet that will talk them through it is pathetic.  Maybe they need to create a website of manbots that will tell us how beautiful we are, how intelligent we are, give us all the things WE need. 

I‘ve been thinking about this for awhile.  Men go to strip joints to see women naked and dance for them, just to get their stimulation.  Men look at porn to get stimulation.  From what I understand (and at least with me it‘s true) women are more verbally aroused.  The romantic talk is what gets to me.  But there is nothing that caters to a woman like that.  Oh, of course, we can go online and talk smut with a guy, or we can find a guy who will sweet talk us to get us in the sack....but being married, we don‘t and can‘t do that.  But it‘s okay for men to use porn, which visual stimulation is what does it for them.  I can‘t look at a naked guy and just get aroused.  I certainly find male strippers to be less than sexy.  So how do we, as women who need the verbal stimulation, get it? Does this post make sense? I almost feel like I‘m starving for some verbal stimulation at times "baby, you are the best thing I‘ve ever had.  Baby, I can‘t take my eyes off you. Oh honey, you make me so hot!"  But nooooooooo. 

hi copbeen,

Normally I would not respond to such drivel, but what the heck it’s early and I haven’t had my coffee yet.  Give me a second to fetch my filleting knives and then we can begin.

I don’t think you are insane, or stupid.  However your post clearly shows that you are one of the more dangerous people around.  You have managed to read or overhear some small bit of information on genetic imperatives and racial survival. You have taken that information, clearly without critical thought, and used it to rationalize your own behavior.  To manage this astounding feat of leaping assumptions and jumped to conclusions you need to have a completely non critical thought process combined with the emotional maturity of the average 12 year old.

Lets start with the easy argument first, racial survival, don’t worry I’ll go slow so that you can keep up, feel free to take notes as necessary.

Racial survival is simple in concept.  In order for our species, humanity, to survive we have to procreate.  In most of the animal kingdom procreation is a combination of instinctual behavior and chemical triggers.  These work well with species driven by instinctual behavior rather than a combination of instinctual behavior and rational thought.  Now this is important so I’ll point it out explicitly, humanity combines instinctual behavior with rational thought.  In those species, humanity is not the only one; a high cost behavior has to have with it a reward in order to be pursued.  Why did humanity develop hunting abilities?  We developed hunting abilities in order to eat high energy food, that was the reward for the behavior.  Why did we develop a family based hunter gather society?  We developed a family based hunter gather society for protection.  The reward was to not be eaten by the other competing species.  Why do we enjoy sex?  We enjoy sex because that pleasure is the reward for participating in procreation.  Procreation is an energy intensive process, the female expends huge amounts of energy bringing a child to term and the male traditionally expends extensive amounts of energy in the protection and care of the female.  Clearly here I am talking about socialized animals with a clan structure.  More primitive animals have a much simpler and lower energy forms of procreation.  They compensate for low survival rates by having/laying more offspring.  Since humanity thinks and is capable of anticipating the future cost of a current action, we need an enticement to engage in such an expensive proposition.  The enticement, the reward, is a pleasure that we can find no where else.

The next step in racial survival is to ensure that your offspring survives, grows, and flourishes.  In a hunter gather society that is ensured by hunting and gathering, ensuring that your offspring has the requirements for survival.  In our society it is ensured by you having a good job and being able to provide the necessities of life for your offspring.  Racial survival is fulfilled so long as you provide the necessities, how you do so is completely irrelevant.

Your second argument that genetic imperatives force men to spread their sperm far and wide is actually correct in the narrowest and simplest terms.  What you have failed to do is to allow for the tension between that individual genetic imperative and racial survival.  Racial survival does not require that you as an individual survive, or procreate.  It requires that the aggregate, the group, survives and procreates.  How does that combine with the genetic imperative?  In order for an individual to survive to pass down their genetic structure to following generations, the individual has to survive long enough to procreate.  You survive long enough to procreate by belonging to a group.  It is ultimately the groups’ survival that ensures your survival.  In order to belong to a group you have to have a structure within the group and you must conform to that structure.  In humanities case we have chosen a family based structure to ensure survival.  This is not based on romantic notions but rather based on the simple rules of survival and genetic imperatives.  You will work harder, fight harder, and sacrifice more to ensure the survival of your offspring.  Some species, including higher primates, adopt a structure wherein the females will mate with many males, thus gaining the protection of all males for her and her offspring.  That doesn’t work for humanity, with our higher thought process we see through such a tactic.  In humanity we have adopted the concept of family and mated pairs as our core survival unit.   The family unit is currently undergoing change, how it will change what it will evolve to become is impossible to predict.  It is undergoing change because we have changed our circumstance as a species.  It is no longer required that a female have a male to protect her and her young.  A female can, in our western society fulfill that role entirely on her own.  It is not optimal, single parents tend on average to be able to offer less to their young thus reducing their offspring’s chances of success and procreation, but it is possible.  Even in our changing society the optimal structue is a stable mated grouping.  To a large extent the composition of the group does not matter.  Any stable grouping in an advanced society is perfectly capable of raising healhy well adjusted offspring.

With that as background there is a single inescapable conclusion:  Individuals that do not conform to their groups’ social structure will not procreate.  They will not pass on their genetics.  They will not survive.  Once again remember I am talking about aggregates not individuals.  There will always be individuals that manage to procreate without conforming to the groups rules, this is inevitable.  Species are conservative, even if the group at this time does not “need” the individuals traits, there may be a future time where they are needed, so they are conserved in a low percentage of the population. 

Personally I take a certain level of comfort that individuals such as you are slowly being breed out of our population.  It may take generations, but you are on a one way path to becoming an annoying bit of background noise in our species. 

What does all of this have to do with porn?  Porn offers the individual the pleasure of sex without the cost of sex.  It is an inherently selfish and self limiting act.  The individuals that manage to become addicted to porn are removing themselves from the gene pool, or have already contributed and as such are now, from a species perspective, unneeded.  I may have some small amount of sympathy for them, but if they are so self involved then as a member of a group based species, I think we can do well enough without them.

Hey copbeen, or whatever your name is.  I had a good laugh over your post.

Because, according to you, no single women in their 40‘s and past their "prime" fertile time would ever get laid.  No man would apparently want them.

Isn‘t it amazing, Bankgirl? And this "primitive" crap he‘s spouting is nothing short of an excuse, because men are not primitive anymore....they should have evolved by now!  Is he saying that men are still in their early stages of development?

I was thinking that perhaps the man who gets tired of "servicing the same woman" is probably not very good in bed himself.  If he gets tired of it that easy, then he probably isn‘t very creative in the sex department.

It doesn‘t mean your wife don‘t love you.Maybe she need more then you are giving her .

This is certainly a tricky one...

Take it from a woman, pornography is a huge source of insecurity. Honestly, what woman can live up to the ideals set by porn? And no, we don‘t get it. It isn‘t "just porn", it‘s our husband, looking at other naked women. I mean...looking at other women. Masturbating to other women. Honestly, would you like it very much if you caught her lusting over other nude, unnaturally endowed men?

That being said, a sexless marriage is incredibly painful and difficult to endure. Just as we as women have needs, men do as well. And we as human beings certainly need sexual gratification. This would be an opportune time to bring up your frustrations. And maybe, just maybe...the problem isn‘t simply on her end. Just as you feel sexually unwanted, perhaps she does as well. One of the best proverbs (albeit over-used) is, "Actions speak louder than words." Surely you tell her she is sexy and beautiful, but do you really cement that with your actions? Certainly viewing pornography behind her back contradicts that notion. Simply put yourself in her shoes - if a woman fawned over you and then got her gratification elsewhere, would you truly feel desired??

Perhaps some sex therapy would help. But the first step is to open the lines of communication, so get off the computer! Get off the porn, get off this site! I would suggest starting slow. You don‘t need to simply have intercourse to foster intimacy. Try having a candlelit dinner together, or take a bath...even a sensual massage is a good first step. Communicate your desires. A relationship must be rounded in order to flourish, and this includes the sadly often-overlooked sexual aspect.

Wow Thom.  Somehow I missed this post before, but all I can say is that was an excellent post.

Sometimes I read something like the post you were responding to and, I have to admit, I wonder "is this true? Do all men truly feel this way?" Sure my husband shakes his head and says they are crazy, but ....well, he‘s my husband.  But when a man steps up and says NO, on a board, and presents such a compelling case, I realize that the guy who wrote the post (the one you responded to) are NOT speaking for all men in any way, shape or form.  And that, my friend, is the best. 

I‘m going to read your post again EVERYTIME I read someone say "it‘s just a male thing, they can‘t help it."  I really know better, but when doubt sets in, I have your post to really drive it home again.

For your young age, you are so wise!

Another great post.  You put into words what I think but can‘t verbalize. 

To Thom:

I don’t think you are insane, or stupid.  However your post clearly shows that you are one of the more dangerous people around.  You have managed to read or overhear some small bit of information on genetic imperatives and racial survival. You have taken that information, clearly without critical thought, and used it to rationalize your own behavior.  To manage this astounding feat of leaping assumptions and jumped to conclusions you need to have a completely non critical thought process combined with the emotional maturity of the average 12 year old.

*CLAP* *CLAP*

I‘ve heard this rationalization before, this is a relationship ender for sure, even in the early stages, as I‘ve seen men use this very lame pre-concieved theory as an excuse for a prior break-up.

and you NAILED IT... to rationalize your own behavior... emotional maturity of the average 12 year old. 

And, don‘t think everyone reading this (I hope) knew this as soon as they got past his first few lines. 

I‘m not suggesting anything, but does anyone here know of any special drugs that bring sexual intimacy back?  I‘m not talking about Viagra or Vigel, really.

I‘m thinking psychedelics.

It seems the men here needs to grow up and be real men.

Why would your wife want to make love to you after you have looked at porn and brought all those other woman into her bed{in your mind}? while she is just a tool for your release?

Why would your wife want to make love to someone who lies to her and she can not trust?

If you would learn how to be a real man, not a little boy, you might get sex 8 times a week.

SNORT!  YOU GO GIRL!!

hahahahaha..................if we combined our posts we‘d have like over 6000!