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| uberbeotch |
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Posted: 2/28/2008 12:10 AM |
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Subject: More issues with Cervical Inflammation, ASC-US |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Hi Dr. WS
I wrote about this problem a month or so ago, but I still have some questions.
My pap came back ASC-US with Inflammation in May 2007. My doc had me come back in Nov. 2007 (6 months later) for another pap. It also came back ASC-US with Inflammation. The lab automatically tests for HPV if you come back ASC-US, and my report said "HPV not detected". They also tested for Chlamydia & Gonorrhea, which came back negative.
I went in for a colposcopy about a month ago. The doc said I looked OK "in there", and she said the subsequent biopsy did not indicate cancer or pre-cancer, but still indicated "ASC-US with Inflammation. I will go back in May for my annual exam. They said if it‘s still ASC-US (with or without Inflammation), they will do an HPV typing.
I asked about that, since my last 2 paps said "HPV not detected." the doc was a bit vague & said something like "well, it‘s a more intensive screening." BTW - she is a GP, not an OB-GYN. Do you think I should see a Gynocologist?
And what the hell DID they screen before, for it to come back "HPV not detected"???
I‘ve been looking up info online about cervical inflammation & cervicitis, and I do have some of the risk factors: early sex (15 y.o.), multiple partners, partners who had previously had STDs (but did not when I was with them). My 1st bad pap in May 2007 was done shortly after I started dating my last bf.
He‘d had a vasectomy, so we did have unprotected sex, but only after he‘d had a very extensive STD panel done, and no STD‘s or Herpes - I saw the lab report in full. In the past, however, he‘d had Chlamydia at least once that I know of....he may not have told me everything. We broke up in Oct. 2007, about a month before I went in & had the 2nd bad pap. I have not had sex with anyone since him. Before him, I hadn‘t had sex for 2 years.
I am really wondering about the inflammation & possible cervicitis. I have not had any pain or bleeding between periods. I am 46 y.o., never been pregnant, had 1 or 2 ASC-US paps before, but they always cleared up right away. I don‘t really have any symptoms other than a little whitish discharge, but it doesn‘t smell bad.
What could be causing this? Some of the articles I read mentioned sensitivity to latex, but I haven‘t used a condom since 2005 (and didn‘t have any sex between then & May 2007).
I have, however, used an insertable vibrator. It is rubber of some sort (not the jelly), it‘s a couple years old, but I am always carefuil to wash it with antibacterial soap after every use, and I store it carefully.
Is it possible that is the cause of the inflammation?
Sorry for all the questions, but I this has been going on for almost a year now, and I am worried. Both my mom & my sister had hysterectomies. Mom at 37 for endometriosis, my sister at 26 for the same. I‘ve never had a problem with endometriosis.
thanks,
UB
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| Dr.WomanSaverM.D. |
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Posted: 2/29/2008 5:56 PM |
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Subject: More issues with Cervical Inflammation, ASC-US |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 100
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| uberbeotch wrote: | |
Hi Dr. WS I wrote about this problem a month or so ago, but I still have some questions. My pap came back ASC-US with Inflammation in May 2007. My doc had me come back in Nov. 2007 (6 months later) for another pap. It also came back ASC-US with Inflammation. The lab automatically tests for HPV if you come back ASC-US, and my report said "HPV not detected". They also tested for Chlamydia & Gonorrhea, which came back negative. I went in for a colposcopy about a month ago. The doc said I looked OK "in there", and she said the subsequent biopsy did not indicate cancer or pre-cancer, but still indicated "ASC-US with Inflammation. I will go back in May for my annual exam. They said if its still ASC-US (with or without Inflammation), they will do an HPV typing. I asked about that, since my last 2 paps said "HPV not detected." the doc was a bit vague & said something like "well, its a more intensive screening." BTW - she is a GP, not an OB-GYN. Do you think I should see a Gynocologist? And what the hell DID they screen before, for it to come back "HPV not detected"??? Ive been looking up info online about cervical inflammation & cervicitis, and I do have some of the risk factors: early sex (15 y.o.), multiple partners, partners who had previously had STDs (but did not when I was with them). My 1st bad pap in May 2007 was done shortly after I started dating my last bf. Hed had a vasectomy, so we did have unprotected sex, but only after hed had a very extensive STD panel done, and no STDs or Herpes - I saw the lab report in full. In the past, however, hed had Chlamydia at least once that I know of....he may not have told me everything. We broke up in Oct. 2007, about a month before I went in & had the 2nd bad pap. I have not had sex with anyone since him. Before him, I hadnt had sex for 2 years. I am really wondering about the inflammation & possible cervicitis. I have not had any pain or bleeding between periods. I am 46 y.o., never been pregnant, had 1 or 2 ASC-US paps before, but they always cleared up right away. I dont really have any symptoms other than a little whitish discharge, but it doesnt smell bad. What could be causing this? Some of the articles I read mentioned sensitivity to latex, but I havent used a condom since 2005 (and didnt have any sex between then & May 2007). I have, however, used an insertable vibrator. It is rubber of some sort (not the jelly), its a couple years old, but I am always carefuil to wash it with antibacterial soap after every use, and I store it carefully. Is it possible that is the cause of the inflammation? Sorry for all the questions, but I this has been going on for almost a year now, and I am worried. Both my mom & my sister had hysterectomies. Mom at 37 for endometriosis, my sister at 26 for the same. Ive never had a problem with endometriosis. thanks, UB
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Hi UB,
Thanks for keeping me posted about your colposcopy results. If your
results didn‘t show HPV, this is GOOD NEWS, and you will be fine in
following up in a year as your doctor suggested. You may keep the same
doctor if you feel comfortable with her. I don‘t see any need in
switching; from what you describe, it sounds like she is doing
everything necessary. As far as I know the tests for HPV are called
"HPV DNA" or "HPV typing". They are looking for what types of HPV are
present, to determine if a woman has the "bad" types which can lead to
cervical cancer. I‘m not sure what your doctor meant -maybe she was
trying to explain that the colposcopy you had is a more intensive test
than the routine pap smear(?)
As for the cause of this I can totally understand your concern.
However I wouldn‘t worry too much about it because it‘s nearly
impossible to pin-point the exact cause of ASC-US and inflammation, and
since this is a pretty mild change, without HPV, it means this isn‘t a
precancerous lesion. Even when precancerous changes and HPV are
detected, it takes around 10 years to develop into cervical cancer if
left untreated. The incidence of cervical cancer in the past few years
have declined significantly because we can now screen for it by PAP and
follow up to treat any precancerous changes before they have the chance
to become malignant.
As for possible cervicitis, I doubt that is something to worry
about if you don‘t have any other symptoms and your doctor didn‘t
suggest antibiotics. Again the cause would be hard to pin point.
Anything that causes irritation like douches, tampons, condoms,
diaphragms, or vibrators could possibly cause it. Some things to watch
out for are itching, yellowish discharge, or any kind of pain (with
urination, pelvic pain, or intercourse). Also if you have any change
in your period contact your doctor.
I‘m sorry I couldn‘t provide you with more definitive answers, but I hope this helps to calm some of your concerns.
DrWS

P.S.I‘m attaching an article about ASC, etc... maybe TMI, but an interesting read.
Abnormal Pap Smear with Atypical Squamous Cell Changes
style="float: left;">
Frederick R. Jelovsek MDThe Pap Smear
is a screening test to pick up premalignant changes (dysplasia) in
cervical cells so that treatment of those changes will prevent a future
invasive cervical cancer. As with any screening test, the actual
microscopic changes in the cervical tissue can be worse than the cells
picked up on Pap indicate or they can be the same or even less
abnormal. To tell what the actual changes are, you need a cervical
biopsy in which the tissue is viewed under the microscope.
Doctors do not always recommend cervical biopsies for abnormal Pap smears
because many of the abnormal Paps will regress to normal on their own.
How the different classes of Pap abnormalities are followed depends
upon many patient factors as well as how accurately the Pap smear is
read by the cytologist or automated scanner.
One of the big difficulties in discussing Pap smears is the mixing
and matching of different classification systems that have been used
through out the years. The first system was a "Class" system and that was followed by a "dysplasia" system that was mostly based on the tissue biopsies rather than Pap changes. Then came a "CIN" classification and finally the currently used "Bethesda" system.
As you can see from the table below, the current Bethesda system
authors do not feel that distinguishing between moderate and severe
dysplasia cellular changes can be very accurate by just looking at the
Pap smear. On the other hand, they felt that atypical changes could be
better classified as "favoring benign changes" or "favoring dysplasia changes".
Past Pap Smear Classification Systems (Some pathologists may still use terms from these systems)
| Class System |
Dysplasia System |
CIN System
Cervical intraepithelial neoplasia |
Bethesda System currently used classification |
| 0 |
unsatisfactory |
unsatisfactory |
unsatisfactory |
| 1 (or I) |
negative |
negative |
within normal limits |
| 2 (or II) |
negative |
negative |
benign cellular changes changes associated with infection, atrophy, repair (metaplasia), radiation |
| 2 (or II) |
No term |
No term |
ASCUS or AGCUS favor benign atypical squamous cell changes of undetermined significance favor benign atypical glandular cell changes of undetermined significance |
| 3 (or III) |
No term |
No term |
ASCUS or AGCUS favor dysplasia atypical squamous cell changes of undetermined significance favor dysplasia atypical glandular cell changes of undetermined significance favor dysplasia |
| 3 or (III) |
mild |
I (or 1) |
LGSIL low grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia |
| No term |
moderate |
II (or 2) |
HGSIL high grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia |
| 4 (or IV) |
severe |
III (or 3) |
HGSIL high grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia |
| 4 (or IV) |
CIS carcinoma in situ |
III (or 3) |
HGSIL high grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia |
| 4 (or V) |
carcinoma |
carcinoma |
carcinoma |
The most recent proposed classification is is in the following table.
It often takes years, however for pathologists and clinicians to make
full transitions to the new terminology without including terminology
from or referencing to past classification systems.
Bethesda 2001 Pap Smear Classification System
Bethesda 2001 currently used classification |
Unsatisfactory for evaluation
reason will be specified as to why it is unsatisfactory |
Negative for intraepithelial lesion or malignancy
vaginal organisms may be mentioned such as trichomonas, yeast, shift in vaginal flora, actinomyces, herpes simplex other
non-neoplastic findings such as reactive changes associated with
inflammation, radiation, or intrauterine device, glandular cells status
post hysterectomy, or atrophy
other changes such as endometrial cells in a woman over age 40
|
Epithelial cell abnormality
SQUAMOUS CELL
Atypical squamous cells
atypical squamous cell changes of undetermined significance ASC-US
cannot exclude high grade intraepithelial lesion ASC-H
LSIL - low-grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia encompassing: HPV/mild dysplasia/CIN1
HSIL - high-grade squamous intraepithelial dysplasia encompassing: moderate or severe dysplasia, CIS/CIN-2,CIN-3 -with features suspicious for invasion (if invasion suspected)
Squamous cell carcinoma
GLANDULAR CELL
Atypical
- endocervical cells
- endometrial cells
- glandular cells
Atypical
- endocervical cells, favor neoplastic
- glandular cells, favor neoplastic
Endocervical adenocarcinoma in situ
Adenocarcinoma
- endocervical
- endometrial
- extrauterine
- not otherwise specified
|
| Other malignant neoplasms/cancer |
What does an abnormal Pap smear with atypical squamous cell changes mean?
When the cytologist or pathologist is looking at a Pap smear, they
basically look for cells that have increased nuclear activity. If you
remember your biology, the nucleus is larger in proportion to the
cytoplasm in the cell than it normally is. This increased nuclear
activity can be due to infection or cellular repair processes,
irritation associated with atrophic changes of the low estrogen
menopausal state, or external agents causing cell damage such as
radiation therapy. Sometimes, however, the increased nuclear activity
can indicate the cell is more rapidly dividing and thus replacing
normal cells. This is called dysplasia and is considered premalignant
change. If cellular changes associated with human papilloma virus are
present, that may explain much of the increased nuclear activity.
If your Pap smear has atypical squamous changes, it should be read
out as either ASCUS favor benign or ASCUS favor dysplasia. Most physicians do not currently recommend colposcopy and cervical biopsy for the category of ASCUS favor benign.
In addition, for the category of ASCUS favor dysplasia, there are still
many physicians who will just repeat the Pap smears at 3-4 month
intervals as long as:
-
they have experience that the lab they are using to read Pap smears is reliable and accurate
- the woman is likely to remain in compliance of returning to the office for repeat Pap smears and unlikely to be "lost to follow up"
They do this because the yield of a biopsy to find a moderate or severe dysplasia is fairly low (5-10%) (1)
and if those changes are actually present, it is likely that one of the
subsequent Pap smears will pick up the more advanced dysplasia before
there is any progression.
Atypical glandular cells of undetermined significance is a much different category. Make sure from the nurses or doctor‘s office that that is not what you have. If so, see our article, Atypical Glandular Cells of Unknown Significance (AGCUS).
Is this a precancerous condition?
In general, ASCUS (atypical squamous cells of undetermined
significance) is not a precancerous change. It is a category that
indicates some cellular irritation and one that bears repeating to see
if there is any change toward dysplasia at a later time.
Dysplasia is considered a premalignant lesion but again it is important
to note that dysplasia usually does not progress to invasive cancer of
the cervix, but if it does, it usually takes 10 years or more. If you
look at the table below about Pap smear progression from our article Natural Progression of an Abnormal Pap, keep in mind that if there are HPV changes associated with ASCUS, then progression may be greater.
Abnormal Pap Smear
Natural Progression and Regression
| Abnormal Class | Regression to Normal |
Progression to higher grade over 24 Months |
Progression to invasive cancer over 24 Months |
|---|
| ASCUS | 68% | 7% | 0.25% |
| LGSIL | 47% | 21% | 0.15% |
| HGSIL | 35% | 23% | 1.44% |
Is just following these and repeating the Pap smear all that needs to be done?
For the most part, yes. As you can see from the above table, even
low grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (LGSIL) have a very low
progression to cancer over the short run. With compliant patients in
our office, we usually just repeat Pap smears about every 4 months for
ASCUS favor benign, ASCUS favor dysplasia, and LGSIL. If any of the
follow up Paps change to a HGSIL, or the LGSIL changes persist 3 or
more times in a row, then colposcopy and cervical biopsy is performed
to make sure there are not more severe or extensive changes. Many
physicians will also followup ASCUS favor dysplasia similarly.
This approach works well for physicians and women favoring non
intervention. Sometimes, however, women may have family histories of
cervical cancer, fears of any cancer or just increased anxiety or even
panic attacks about "something abnormal in my body". In that case,
earlier biopsies and even treatment for mild cervical irritation may be
the best way to minimize the anxiety that an abnormal Pap can evoke.
You need to work with your doctor on this.
How can I get rid of these abnormal Pap smears?
Sometimes the frequent office visits for repeat Pap smears gets to
be too emotionally aggravating. In that case, you may need to speak to
your doctor about treating any cervical irritation that can be seen on
colposcopic exam after it has been biopsied.
Any treatment that destroys the abnormal cells such as cryotherapy,
laser, LEEP, electrical cautery or hyfercation (thermal heat cautery)
will hopefully induce normal cells to heal over the destroyed area and
result in a normal Pap smear after healing has taken place.
Does HPV virus cause these Pap abnormalities?
Human papilloma virus (HPV) is felt to play a major role in cervical
dysplasia. In fact the ASCUS Pap smears that are present in woman with
HPV are more likely to progress to a more severe grade of dysplasia.
Most scientific investigators now believe that HPV either totally
causes dysplasia and cervical cancer or it is a necessary cofactor
along with some other cause.
One study of women who had LGSIL Pap smears had an 83% incidence of HPV DNA present in cervical samples (2)
when tested with a sensitive Hybrid Capture II (HCII)(R) assay. Another
study of just ASCUS Pap smears found that repeat Pap smear was just as
sensitive as HPV DNA testing (3)
therefore at the current time, it does not appear that HPV testing in
women with abnormal Pap smears will help separate those who are at risk
for progression the the dysplasia versus those who are not.
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| uberbeotch |
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Posted: 2/29/2008 10:06 PM |
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Subject: More issues with Cervical Inflammation, ASC-US |
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WomanSaver MoFo
Female Member
Age: 467
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Total Posts: 1059
In a Dark Castle Belarus
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Thanks, Dr. WS. let me clarify:
1st pap was 5/07 - came back ASC-US with inflammation
Repeat pap was 8/07 - came back ASC-US with inflammation
Repeat pap was 11/07 - came back ASC-US with inflammation AGAIN.
On all 3 of the above paps, the lab report said "HPV - none detected". My doc said the lab automatically tests for HPV if the pap shows ASC-US.
Colposcopy 1/08 - I did not see the exact lab reults. Doc said there is no cancer or pre-cancerous cells, but there is still inflammation & abnormal cells. She didnt see anything noticable when she looked inside me. She said if next pap (which will be in May 08) is ASC-US and/or indicates any inflammation, they will do the HPV typing.
I am confused - if the lab tests for HPV when the pap is ASC-US, HOW is that different from HPV typing? If the 1st 3 paps said "HPV - none detected" then WHY would they do an HPV typing test later? When I asked her this, she just said "the HPV typing is a more intensive test."
I don‘t get it! If they are saying there is no HPV ("not detected"), why might they do an HPV typing?
I have no burning, itching or pain, just some mild whitish discharge. My period was 1 week late 3 months ago, but has been on time for the last 2 months. I mentioned this to doc, but she wasnt concerned & did not seem to find any infection down there. She did not give me any meds.
I just feel like nothing is really being resolved. Do I need a 2nd opinion?
Frustrating!
UB
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| Dr.WomanSaverM.D. |
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Posted: 3/1/2008 8:13 PM |
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Subject: More issues with Cervical Inflammation, ASC-US |
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WomanSaver MoFo
Female Member
Age: 100
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Total Posts: 541

Doctor's Office Costa Rica
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| uberbeotch wrote: |
I don‘t get it! If they are saying there is no HPV ("not detected"), why might they do an HPV typing?
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Hi UB.
Ok, I have a couple of guesses, but to make sure there is no miscommunication
with your doctor you should ask her this question directly.
I think it could be one of two scenarios:
1. When a person is infected with HPV,
the virus enters the cells and starts making some cell changes. Without getting too technical, these cell
changes are called koilocytosis and the cells are called koilocytes. These cell changes are characteristic of HPV
infection. However this isn’t the best
method of detecting HPV. Not seeing any
cell changes on PAP, the test could come back HPV “not detected”. The better way of detecting HPV, would be to
do a test looking inside the cells for the virus’s genetic material (HPV
DNA). This test indicates the presence
of HPV, and also tells us what type of HPV is present. As you probably already know, certain types
of HPV cause benign genital warts and others cause precancerous changes which
can lead to cervical cancer.
2. HPV typing was done by the lab, but
now they want to try a different test. –They
have different methods of testing to look for HPV DNA. –I’m not too sure of the
details on this since this is more of a lab/patho thing.
Again, I’m just speculating based on what I know…
You should clear this with your doctor if you have any doubts.
Personally I don’t think it’s necessary to get a
2nd opinion. If you feel
comfortable with your doctor just follow up in a year, but if you don’t then
you are free to see another one.
-DrWS
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