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gina**
  Posted: 7/10/2008 1:33 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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    I just got back from my two week vacation without him. First of all being with my mom was no picnic. She‘s kind of a mentally unhealthy person to be around.

I have alot to think about. The first few days I didn‘t think about anything. But then the few days before our return I started getting really mad about things again. Maybe it was just knowing I had to come back and deal with it. Sometimes I think I make myself mad about it on purpose, so as not to ever be fooled again.

He had called a few times while I was gone saying how much he missed us and all that. But then he also was doing things like saying he had to clean soooo much. I felt like he was putting down my housekeeping, and even my mom noticed.  He has yet to really ask what we did, it‘s was all "look at all I did while you were gone" like he did a bunch of work I should have done. And it‘s baloney because I always clean but even my baby boy said "but daddy, it‘s easy for the house to be clean when we‘re not here, kids make it dirty!!"

Then while I was gone he called one night while I was doing laundry in the hotel. He had a few digs to say about me being out late, and accused me of lying about being down stairs doing the laundry. It was jerky.

But what was really alarming has been some of my oldest son‘s behavior. My husband seemed to be asking him who I talked to and such, when he would call each day. Then my son told me he over heard my husband and his brother say they had bugged my car. This would be like him to do, I made my son swear and he did (this was while we were on vacation). So I ripped the cell phone speaker out of the car,  I even stopped at radio shack to have them look at the car and see if anythinglooked suspicious. Then we got back, my son told my husband that I had ripped out the speaker and all me and my mom had said about it. My husband then was laughing at me, like it was so funny I thought the car was bugged and also like haha your son told on you. I did not sell my son out and tell his father HE was the one who told me it was bugged. Then my son told him I stopped at a fire station to ask for directions, we were in a crappy part of an unknown city and that seemed like the safest placet to ask for directions but my husband made a smart ass comment to me about it, like haha I know you talked to a bunch of firemen. Anway, it seems clear he has dragged my son into this, and it‘s very upsetting. My mom kept saying she felt like my oldest son was his spy. But I can‘t believe my son would act this way. It‘s alarming, and I really probably should just leave this marriage. I‘m just not happy and things are getting out of hand. My kids have probably noticed for years me trying to catch him, him controlling me, all this dysfunction. It‘s horrible. I talked to my son about later alone, reminded him that he was the one who swore to god daddy talked about bugging the car. He started crying and said he had been joking that day. But when he said it then, I made him swear like 10 times it was the truth and he kept swearing it was. The poor kid. Maybe he did hear it, and then once he got back in daddy‘s presence he felt the need to put me down to make up for telling? Because he knows, unlike his father, I would NEVER rat him out even I have to be the one to hang for it. I just let my husband think I irrationally pulled the speaker out. He has always seemed to really want his father‘s acceptance. I have never questioned him about what my husband does, or involved him in any of this crap. Im sure he‘s noticed things, but I can‘t believe my husband would even drag him into anything.  I talked to my husband about my son‘s behavior on the trip toward the last half, he was totally disrespectful to my mom and me (maybe he was feeling tension like I was about returning?). My husband blamed my mom for it. I said I don‘t care what a cranky bat my mom is, he needs to respect his elders. Plus, his behavior was so rotten I don‘t blame her for having something to say about it. My husband kept defending my son‘s rotten behavior and blaming my mom for it. I had to throw a fit to make him listen to how bad the kid really acted. Then he said okay he would talk to him, they went for  drive, came back, my husband said he talked to him and made him see he needs to start respecting me more, but not my mom. I think that is crap, how can a father tell his son "you don‘t have to respect your grandmother?" Becasuse he doesn‘t like her and thinks she‘s instigating me in our marriage problems, so he told my son not to respect her. Even my worst in law from his side who I hate, I don‘t tolerate my kids disrespecting them. They are elders and my kids need to show respect even if they hate someone.

I have been very cold to him. He has been acting okay. But I feel like maybe it‘s too little too late. There might not be any other way to save my children. I‘m just afraid in a few years they will be out of the house and their only memories will be of an unhappy, possibly cheated on mother and a controllling cheating pissy lying father. What do any of our good qualities matter when all that stuff is also there?


lottalinda
  Posted: 7/10/2008 1:57 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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I would really try your darndest not to get any of your kids involved with anything. I don‘t know how old your son is but he sounds like he is an "eager to please" kind of kid....I would go out of my way to downplay any kind of mess that is going on. My philosphy has always been-"I don‘t want my girls screwed up like I am."  My older daughter knows what happened-(My husband ended up telling her without me around and put his spin on things by saying "mom just doesn‘t understand me and that‘s why I ended up talking to this girl at work.") My daughter was devastated but she still to this day feels that I was somehow part of the cause of the problems in our marriage-it‘s just so unfair that he manipulated my daughter,shrink, church, co-workers to make himself look like the "good guy" and you know what-it DID work for him which makes me even more angy. I have to so keep myself in control in front of my girls and it absolutely KILLS me to not flip out and make him look like the dirtbag he was for doing this but I also know that I want my girls to stay sane and not have these "issues" when they get older. My younger daughter knows NOTHING and I‘m keeping it that way...when I flip out at my husband it‘s always when the girls aren‘t around...maybe my philosphy isn‘t the right one but it‘s what I feel is the right thing to do...Good luck:) 

 



shally
  Posted: 7/10/2008 3:20 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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Welcome back!

I don‘t believe in ‘staying for the kids‘. No one is doing the kids any favors by staying in a marriage one or the other is not going to put 110% in. Kids don‘t ask for much, when it comes to their emotional well being. They just want to be happy and have two happy parents. They deserve a happy home. It should be their place to run for comfort love and peace. An escape from the big bad world.

Sure they‘ll see and hear problems, but if those problems aren‘t worked through with love and understanding, they are going to learn all the wrong things of what a relationship isn‘t. Only the parents in the home, behind closed doors can answer the question of whether they should stay or go.

gina, you‘re a good mom, take your time making your decision of what to do. I have faith in you. I believe you will do what is right for you, because what is right for you, will be right for your kids.


needtobestrong
  Posted: 7/10/2008 3:40 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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Gina I totally hear everything you are saying.  I think our stories sound so much alike.  I am new to the site so I dont know how to find your original story, but have read bits and pieces of it.  I am sticking around for the kids sake as well, but not sure if this is the right thing or not.  My stuff has happend for so many years, I give up trying to be a detective anymore.  I check the phone bills still.  Anyway can you let me know where I can read your story? 

shally
  Posted: 7/10/2008 4:20 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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hi needtobestrong, see gina‘s avatar? Under that it says ‘profile‘, click on that. Then click on ‘veiw all posts‘, it‘s second from the bottom. :)

toohappy
  Posted: 7/10/2008 5:32 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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Well, in the blowup last night, son is trying to say that he can‘t live without us both with him...  It‘s sad; he thinks dad does no wrong and he‘s being truthful; yeah, he DOES have this really sincere sounding voice, or nice women wouldn‘t fall for his using them... but a 14 year old won‘t understand that... sigh....

gina**
  Posted: 7/11/2008 8:03 AM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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    I know it‘s important not to drag the kids in. I feel I really havent. I‘m sure they‘ve over heard me when I‘m upset about it and I‘m not proud of that. My husband hasn‘t specifically talked to them about it either, but whereas what my kids hear might be from over hearing something from me, with him it seems he‘s actually asking them vague questions and dragging them into in vague ways. Then when there‘s a showdown, I‘m put in the position of ratting him out or staying calm for the kids! Of course I never say anything around the kids to defend myself too much, because that would be dragging them into it, but I‘m beginning to wonder if he‘s not making them think I‘m crazy.

For him to actually laugh about things, maybe it‘s nervous laughter, but to laugh about things that are so upsetting to me,  is hurtful, this is all very serious to me, he‘s making it seem like the antics of some irrational deranged woman. And when he knows damn well it‘s his fault I‘m an obsessed suspicious person. And in front of the kids! It‘s a put down. If he wants to comment he can do that later with me in private. But standing out in the driveway laughing in front of the kids and saying stuff,  is wrong. I guess this is all soooooo funny to him. That I feel controlled enough to believe he would actually bug MY car when he‘s the one who cheated??!! What nerve. I guess it‘s soooooo funny to him that I still mistrust him so much I feel I have to check his cell as soon as I walk in the door. And it makes him feel soooooo good when he can pull out of my son what I did on vacation.


Rhiannon
  Posted: 7/11/2008 8:28 AM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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Gina:  Here is a bitter pill to swallow.  You are going to have to be the grown up and the bigger person in this scenario.  I agree with Lottalinda.  Refuse to involve the kids in any interactions between you and your husband.  Don‘t talk about him where they can hear it.  Don‘t respond to the things they repeat that he said.

It will make you angry and it will make you crazy.  Consider that your husband is hitting all of your buttons, knowing where you‘re weak, knowing what pisses you off, knowing what is guaranteed to get a reaction.  He is playing you like a puppet, and he is enjoying watching you dance.  It keeps him in control, and he enjoys using your son as a pawn to get at you.

If it gets to you, come here and vent.  Better yet, talk to people who are NOT family (and that includes your mother), who are not emotionally involved, and who will just listen and offer support.

Remember that your child is just a child, and not mature enough to reason things out, or to understand what is going on.  He is caught in the middle, and your husband is using this situation to twist his mind.

I have been through this and it is really, really hard to keep your mouth shut and not to lose control.  I feel like beating your husband to a pulp just hearing it.

Here is what I have found works best:  NO reaction.  Tell your son that he doesn‘t need to worry about Mom & Dad‘s problems.  Mom & Dad are adults.  His job is to just be a kid.  Tell him he doesn‘t have to take sides - he has the right to love both parents, and though Mom & Dad don‘t always see eye to eye, you both love him.  If he tells you the dirt on what Dad said, say, "I am really sorry that you had to hear about this."  And tell him if Dad wants him to spy on Mom or report back, that he can just tell Dad "You have to ask Mom about that."

I trained my kids to do that after my divorce when the in-laws were obsessing about whether I had a boyfriend, was seeing anyone, etc., etc., etc.  It infuriated me that they were doing this, and it was tough to maintain control and not "react" to the outrageous things they were saying and doing.  But the kids learned!   They got tired of hearing about the divorce.

I am sorry you have to go through this, but don‘t give the example of two adults behaving badly.  In the end, your son will respect you for handling yourself with class.



gina**
  Posted: 7/11/2008 8:47 AM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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    Yes I know rhiannon. What I am guilty of is talking on the phone to people like my mom about all this, thinking they are out of ear shot when really they probably can hear most of it.

I haven‘t ever really defended myself when he says things in front of them, and I‘ve said things like you said, this is mommy and daddys problem. But I think they‘ve heard too much. Probably especially on this vacation my mom and I would talk in the car about all this when we thougth they were asleep but I don‘t think they were.

Damn him!! Not only does he do crap but he knows I can‘t say anything about it.

It‘s very hard to live this way. Hiding things and covering for him. It‘s really getting almost impossible. It may be why I have to leave. I really dont‘ think I‘ll ever be able to get over it, and the obsession and anger I have with what he did. I just can‘t hide it. I dont‘ say anything, but the feelings probably permeate like gas through the whole house. Plus the need to spy on him that surely the kids have noticed. The mistrust I have in him, is not healthy for them to see. Besides all the crap he does to me, lying constantly and all that.

I just really cant‘ hide it anymore. And now they are bigger. I think when they are smaller it‘s easier to hide things. But they are savvy enough to figure it out.

The classiest thing I could do would probably be to leave. Because I don‘t see myself ever getting over this and also I know he‘ll never do anything to fix it. I keep saying I should leave but damnit I dont‘ know why I can‘t or why I haven‘t. For one thing he‘ll make me feel like a bitch and a homewrecker and a bad mommy and that I‘m crazy for leaving "over nothing", as he calls what happened between him and that whore.


lottalinda
  Posted: 7/11/2008 11:40 AM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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Gina-I think your husband is a real coward to to make it look like you are an emotional basketcase in front of your kids!! That is sooooo scummy and rotten. It‘s his way of feeling in control of things...make my wife look like she‘s having a breakdown and then I can get my kids to believe it‘s her fault things are the way they are. It‘s almost like you have no choice but to defend yourself in front of the kids. I do believe in karma though and I do believe that his day will come...just hang in there and when you feel the anger overtaking you-leave and let him have it full blast when the kids aren‘t around. I really wish I was there for you to stick up for you!!! I know how awful the pain is and how desperate you feel to be vindicated by someone.....it is sooo hard and very frustrating. I‘ll tell ya-these guys have absolutely no self-esteem and are very insecure to do these kinds of things to us.

gina**
  Posted: 7/11/2008 12:37 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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lottalinda wrote:
Gina-I think your husband is a real coward to to make it look like you are an emotional basketcase in front of your kids!! That is sooooo scummy and rotten. It‘s his way of feeling in control of things...make my wife look like she‘s having a breakdown and then I can get my kids to believe it‘s her fault things are the way they are. It‘s almost like you have no choice but to defend yourself in front of the kids. I do believe in karma though and I do believe that his day will come...just hang in there and when you feel the anger overtaking you-leave and let him have it full blast when the kids aren‘t around. I really wish I was there for you to stick up for you!!! I know how awful the pain is and how desperate you feel to be vindicated by someone.....it is sooo hard and very frustrating. I‘ll tell ya-these guys have absolutely no self-esteem and are very insecure to do these kinds of things to us.


    It really chapped my hide that he actually laughed about something that has destroyed me, and in front of the kids, like "there you go again being a spy" type of attitude.  He‘s careful not to actually say too much. Ever the clever one, he is.

I really just want to leave. I‘m sick of being Mother f***ing Theresa putting everyone else first (not the kids, but him). I just want to be happy. I"m not sure I‘ll ever be happy, there‘s no guarantees, but I‘m pretty sure I won‘t ever get over this. The biggest thing is what it did to my pride. To be lied to by both of them like I‘m some fool. All the planning that must have gone into keeping me in the dark. And who knows who else knew? I find I can‘t even stand being around anyone who even knew her, like maybe they knew what was going on and I must look like such an idiot to them.

I also worry about money. Not really money but more like I would need to find my own career again, I‘ve supported his career for 15 years, I dropped my career to raise children and support his career, basically working for him. I don‘t regret doing it to raise the children, and I would probably have enough to survive because I would go for some serious alimony and of course I‘d get half of everything. But it‘s easy for him to make money and it‘s not easy for me to make money on my own after all this time. Plus I still have young children to raise I need to be home for.

 Damn it this just isn‘t the way it was supposed to be. I‘m so mad at him!!!! I was supposed to be a housewife and have have big happy family dinners and a garden and take care of the children and even him and then in 20 years be a grandma and we were supposed to sit on the porch watching all our grandkids play, and that‘s what I wanted to do,  he was not supposed to devote 6 years to being some whore‘s "best friend" and ruining all that!!!! (Stomping my foot)




lottalinda
  Posted: 7/11/2008 12:55 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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I totally understand where you are coming from about losing your pride...that was the toughest part for me as a result of betrayal. I really sunk low when my own mother and sister supported him. They had the attitude of "well-let bygones be bygones." They went out of their way to be extra nice to him after what happened and to me it was a cold slap in the face. I also understand the Mother Theresa comment. Society expects you to just put up with being made a fool out of and if you open your mouth up and are a whistleblower-people think you are going nuts with anger. I believe that I will never get over what happened either and how humiliated I feel but I can honestly tell you my anger has subsided somewhat because frankly I‘ve turned into a recluse and am holed up in my house more than I am out of it. If we run into people that know what he did and they are sickening sweet to him-that‘s what starts to make me go nuts.  I‘m looking forward to moving away to a place where noone knows what happened but I have lost a lot in my life as a result of what he did and it‘s sooo hard to forgive that. Are you suspicious of him still lying about things??Are you worried about other girls? I wasn‘t sure if I had grasped all of that  from your posts. If you still think he talks to other women behind your back-it‘s hard to move on and heal. You can‘t!! That‘s when it‘s time to sit down and re-evaluate what the future holds. Good luck and I am with you all the way:)

gina**
  Posted: 7/11/2008 1:28 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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lottalinda wrote:
I totally understand where you are coming from about losing your pride...that was the toughest part for me as a result of betrayal. I really sunk low when my own mother and sister supported him. They had the attitude of "well-let bygones be bygones." They went out of their way to be extra nice to him after what happened and to me it was a cold slap in the face. I also understand the Mother Theresa comment. Society expects you to just put up with being made a fool out of and if you open your mouth up and are a whistleblower-people think you are going nuts with anger. I believe that I will never get over what happened either and how humiliated I feel but I can honestly tell you my anger has subsided somewhat because frankly I‘ve turned into a recluse and am holed up in my house more than I am out of it. If we run into people that know what he did and they are sickening sweet to him-that‘s what starts to make me go nuts.  I‘m looking forward to moving away to a place where noone knows what happened but I have lost a lot in my life as a result of what he did and it‘s sooo hard to forgive that. Are you suspicious of him still lying about things??Are you worried about other girls? I wasn‘t sure if I had grasped all of that  from your posts. If you still think he talks to other women behind your back-it‘s hard to move on and heal. You can‘t!! That‘s when it‘s time to sit down and re-evaluate what the future holds. Good luck and I am with you all the way:)


    I had to laugh out loud about your "frankly I‘ve become a recluse" comment. I feel the same way, and it‘s ridiculous. I also avoid people from our circle, because I think "do they know what happened?" and I feel stupid. Maybe they don‘t even know, but still. So I just am reclusive. I feel more comfortable with my own friends that aren‘t so much his friends, because they don‘t know anything or her. Like the kids friends moms and things. But people from work and in our business circles and even some of his family, I avoid and am very uncomfortable when I do have to interact with them. Thing is, I‘ve always been very shy, so it‘s bad that I‘ve become even more reclusive. I like being a homebody, but I have few friends anymore. Because of all this. Not because I"m a wallflower. Plus because he was so controlling for so many years I didn‘t make friends.

No I dont trust him, but I really dont care some days. I can‘t lock up all the women in the world so he‘ll be good. He should just be good!

I dont‘ understand why family acts the way your did. Maybe someone else can give their two cents on that. Must be some deep psychological thing at play that makes them act that way to someone who hurt one of their own.


needtobestrong
  Posted: 7/11/2008 3:24 PM Subject: Staying for the kids? LEAVING for the kids
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I think the same way about the part you wrote about sitting outside one day watching the grand kids play and us gardening etc.  I have been at home the whole time with my kids also, helping him in his career, getting him through college while I took care of the kids.  Its so maddening and now they get the good job and we have to figure out what we are going to do.  It is strange how we are having such a hard time figuring out what to do.   Only my 17 year old knows anything and the other 2 know nothing.  I feel the same that if we were to split it would be my fault for ripping the family apart.  But, my brother (who majored in psychology) said "but it wouldnt be your fault"  but it does feel like its my fault, because of course H wants to stay together forever....ugh

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