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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 9:13 AM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver Addict
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I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
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| nstevens |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 1:37 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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very well put.I to hate that the cheating is always looked at by other people because the spouse did this or that or didn‘t do what the other one wanted.
I say leave before you hurt people,but that is not always the case because so many want there cake and eat it to.
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| shally |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 1:46 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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gina, I love your posts. I bet you have no idea how many women will get something wonderful out of this post. For that I thank you. One woman‘s rant is another women‘s saving grace.
A person that cheats is sick, sick in their heart and in their soul. They can lay the blame anywhere they care to, but the fact remains, it was THEIR choice, sad thing is the first one they point to for the cause, is the spouse, little do the asswipes know...four more are pointing at them.
I sadly did have a god awful marriage. I accept responsibility for my part in making it miserable.....I OWN it. I accept none of the responsibility for HIS actions. I do like the idea that he looks at the wh*re as his biggest mistake in life, hmmmm, wonder what that feels like to be someones biggest mistake. Guess I‘ll never know, wh*ring is beneath me.
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| Momof4Crabs |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 3:38 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 0
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Great post! Do you have any idea how many other women are told that the MM‘s wives are fat, ugly, nasty, miserable, asexual, and/or cheating on them?
I was never any of those things, but my problem? I wasn‘t a little bit of the "Strange". Men apparently like variety. So now, his variety is me or divorce. I told him choose carefully. LOL!
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| meandnotyou |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 10:05 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 44
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| gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
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OK.
So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known.
Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is.
And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took".
Are you off your pedestal now?
A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage.
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| Momof4Crabs |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 5:16 AM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 0
Total Posts: 3372
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| meandnotyou wrote: |
| gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
|
OK. So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known. Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is. And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took". Are you off your pedestal now? A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage.
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I‘m pretty sure that the downfall of alot of marriages from cheating is that their wife doesn‘t have a new twat for their husband. Same old, same old.
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| meandnotyou |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 8:11 AM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 44
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| Momof4flowers wrote: |
| meandnotyou wrote: |
| gina** wrote: |
I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
|
OK.
So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known.
Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is.
And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took".
Are you off your pedestal now?
A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage. |
I‘m pretty sure that the downfall of alot of marriages from cheating is that their wife doesn‘t have a new twat for their husband. Same old, same old.
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Horse****.
It‘s not new twat per se, it‘s new woman.
Hey, it‘s great to meet a new woman that doesn‘t come with the mouth that he‘s been married to for the last 20 years (and this works both ways). Or the kids. Or the bills.
For fock sakes, doesn‘t anyone around here take just a bit of responsibility for what goes wrong in their marriages???
Christ.
And when you manage to rub 2 brain cells together and come up with a plan, let Eves know. She‘ll call me ‘cause I need a half decent excuse for next Friday nite.
Gotcha!
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 12:04 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver Addict
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Age: 37
Total Posts: 128
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| meandnotyou wrote: |
| gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
|
OK. So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known. Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is. And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took". Are you off your pedestal now? A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage.
|
No, I‘m not taking any responsibilty. Does that make you feel better? That‘s exactly my point.
You seem to just not be able to stomach that alot of wives are far better than the trash men can end up with. But if you like to convince yourself of that, fine.
Am I perfect? No, but I‘m perfect enough for him or he wouldn‘t have married me now would he?
No, there is not a problem in any marriage that women need to own up to to excuse cheating. The marriage did not "downfall", as someone else said, a cheater is sick, selfish. It is not the fault of "the marriage". And if it is, then both parties are free to leave.
How ironic that you are on a board called woman savers. You are a very nasty person. I feel really sorry for anyone who trusts you, I hope to god you don‘t have children you are dishing out this advice to.
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| nstevens |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 12:38 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver MoFo
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Age: 38
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| gina** wrote: |
| meandnotyou wrote: |
| gina** wrote: |
I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
|
OK.
So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known.
Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is.
And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took".
Are you off your pedestal now?
A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage. |
No, I‘m not taking any responsibilty. Does that make you feel better? That‘s exactly my point.
You seem to just not be able to stomach that alot of wives are far better than the trash men can end up with. But if you like to convince yourself of that, fine.
Am I perfect? No, but I‘m perfect enough for him or he wouldn‘t have married me now would he?
No, there is not a problem in any marriage that women need to own up to to excuse cheating. The marriage did not "downfall", as someone else said, a cheater is sick, selfish. It is not the fault of "the marriage". And if it is, then both parties are free to leave.
How ironic that you are on a board called woman savers. You are a very nasty person. I feel really sorry for anyone who trusts you, I hope to god you don‘t have children you are dishing out this advice to.
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I agree no way is it the other person fault that there spouse cheated,when he or she could just get there s h i t together and leave if they cant keep there hand and other parts of there body off of some one eles.And should be talking to there spouse not someone eles,thing never get better by going out of a marraige .and sure the grass always looks green on the other side but never is.
so when they cheat they are olny thinking of them self and know one eles.karma will get them some day.
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 12:50 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver Addict
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Age: 37
Total Posts: 128
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| meandnotyou wrote: |
| Momof4flowers wrote: | | meandnotyou wrote: | | gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
I adamantly disagree that when cheating happens that it belies a problem in the marriage. It belies a problem in the cheater!! THAT‘S ALL. Why must a perfectly good spouse be blamed in any way for a cheater? This is such scapegoating, denial, and basic immaturity. But besides the spouse, why must the marriage be blamed for the actions of the cheater?
I can tell you I was a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, even a good cook and a great mother. I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endevour he took, his family loves me. Everything! Seriously, his male friends sometimes told him they were jealous of him. And yes, sorry to burst anyone‘s bubble about wives, but I AM good in bed. Ego stroking?! Pulleeze. What more counts as ego stroking?!!?? The _________ who was sliming around him was ugly, an airhead, useless, aimless, not any younger, spoiled, whiny, you name it. Seriously that is not just bitterness talking. He was EMBARRASSED when he was caught communicating with her. And my marriage? The marriage would have been fine had he not behaved like an idiot, so is the issue with the marraige? No.
And besides, I don‘t remember "I promise to constantly stroke your ego" being in my vows. I signed up to be a wife and an equal life partner, not a concubine there to constantly cater to his ego and make sure his needs are being met. I really loathe that attitude anyway, these are adults, they can figure out how to meet their own damn needs without cheating! We‘d teach a 5 yr old no less than that, yet somehow grown humans think they should get to rationalize cheating, lying, and betraying because some freaking "need" wasn‘t met. I also don‘t remember swearing "I promise to meet your every freaking imaginable need that you can dream up in your head". Cheating is not a need, it‘s a selfish want, there is a vast difference.
In short, it‘s the cheater‘s issue. Not the marriage‘s issue. Is any marriage perfect? Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
There! I just had to get that off my chest.
|
OK. So, if you were such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother, what was missing for him? If you were that good, you would‘ve known. Oh, I know - a woman that didn‘t remind him of how she was such a good wife, attentive, attractive, intelligent, a good cook and a great mother she is. And let‘s not forget "wholeheartedly and enthusiastically supported every life endeavor he took". Are you off your pedestal now? A rant is one thing, but nowhere did I see you take any responsibility for the downfall of your marriage. |
I‘m pretty sure that the downfall of alot of marriages from cheating is that their wife doesn‘t have a new twat for their husband. Same old, same old.
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Hey, it‘s great to meet a new woman that doesn‘t come with the mouth that he‘s been married to for the last 20 years
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And this. Very intelligent reasoning (said with dripping sarcasm). So, we‘re supposed to change our mouth every 10 years? Magically become a "different woman" as you said, every few years? Maybe wave a magic wand and make the kids and hardships disappear every so often?
The things you speak of are not even marriage problems, you make it sound as if just being who you are for 20 or so years is a good reason to be cheated on.
Funny how someone comes on here with healthy self esteem and you feel the need to try to knock me down a few notches. I suppose you‘re only civil toward people who are down on themselves, huh.
I don‘t like you.
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 1:10 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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WomanSaver Addict
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Age: 37
Total Posts: 128
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And back to the rest of you who get what I‘m saying.
I see too many women racking their brains, tearing themselves down, ripping themselves apart, trying to figure out what they did wrong. They put themselves in counseling, they dreg up every word and action they ever did to their spouse. And also, the spin in circles comparing themselves in every way to trash who doesn‘t even measure up to them. It‘s entirely self defeating.
But more importantly, what I‘ve seen is that all the attention focuses off of the sick cheater onto "what did I do to contribute to this?". Nothing. You did nothing. We don‘t have to be perfect. If a wife is sooooo bad and someone else is soooo good, a guy will leave! He won‘t cheat he would just leave. The reason people cheat and don‘t leave, is because they know what they have is better than what they getting outside. When you focus too much on what you did, then he gets off the hook. He cheated, it‘s wrong. Period. He‘s the one who deserves counseling, not you. He‘s the one who should be going back through 20 years of memory trying to figure out what he did wrong, not you. He‘s the one who should question what kind of spouse he is, not you. And if you go along on that journey with him as he figures it out, then HE‘S lucky.
But more than that, it‘s not only the spouse who is blameless, the marriage is also not at fault. What do all these politicians start off with in their public mea culpas after being busted in an affair? They start off with "during a hard time in my marriage" or something to that effect. They have to blame the marriage which implies the spouse was equally responsible, they can‘t just be a man and say "there was nothing wrong with my marriage, I was just an ass". Sure they are careful not to blame the spouse, but by blaming the marriage they make the spouse equally at fault as them. I know all *all* marraiges go through rough times, really rough times, sometimes for years. That is NO excuse. That is simply life. That is the same excuse wife beaters and abusers use- they were overwhelmed with life, stressed more than usual, or the wife/marriage somehow wasn‘t living up to his standards (or hers, if the wife is cheating) so oh well, he punched her a few times or controlled her or whatever. YES it is the same thing. Cheating is mental and emotional abuse. I wish shally would post that gaslighting link again, if that‘s not abuse then nothing is, text book cheater manipulation.
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| nstevens |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 1:39 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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| gina** wrote: | And back to the rest of you who get what I‘m saying.
I see too many women racking their brains, tearing themselves down, ripping themselves apart, trying to figure out what they did wrong. They put themselves in counseling, they dreg up every word and action they ever did to their spouse. And also, the spin in circles comparing themselves in every way to trash who doesn‘t even measure up to them. It‘s entirely self defeating.
But more importantly, what I‘ve seen is that all the attention focuses off of the sick cheater onto "what did I do to contribute to this?". Nothing. You did nothing. We don‘t have to be perfect. If a wife is sooooo bad and someone else is soooo good, a guy will leave! He won‘t cheat he would just leave. The reason people cheat and don‘t leave, is because they know what they have is better than what they getting outside. When you focus too much on what you did, then he gets off the hook. He cheated, it‘s wrong. Period. He‘s the one who deserves counseling, not you. He‘s the one who should be going back through 20 years of memory trying to figure out what he did wrong, not you. He‘s the one who should question what kind of spouse he is, not you. And if you go along on that journey with him as he figures it out, then HE‘S lucky.
But more than that, it‘s not only the spouse who is blameless, the marriage is also not at fault. What do all these politicians start off with in their public mea culpas after being busted in an affair? They start off with "during a hard time in my marriage" or something to that effect. They have to blame the marriage which implies the spouse was equally responsible, they can‘t just be a man and say "there was nothing wrong with my marriage, I was just an ass". Sure they are careful not to blame the spouse, but by blaming the marriage they make the spouse equally at fault as them. I know all *all* marraiges go through rough times, really rough times, sometimes for years. That is NO excuse. That is simply life. That is the same excuse wife beaters and abusers use- they were overwhelmed with life, stressed more than usual, or the wife/marriage somehow wasn‘t living up to his standards (or hers, if the wife is cheating) so oh well, he punched her a few times or controlled her or whatever. YES it is the same thing. Cheating is mental and emotional abuse. I wish shally would post that gaslighting link again, if that‘s not abuse then nothing is, text book cheater manipulation.
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another good point and very well said. .
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 4:10 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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Thanks.
You know, it took me years to get back up on that "pedestal" after he knocked me off of it, that pedestal which Meandnotyou sooooo wishes for me to get off of. And I‘m not getting back off of it.
There is no reason to ever let any man (or woman) knock you off of it in the first place. I wish people would realize it before they go through all of that. Spouses aren‘t supposed to be mind readers. Adults should be perfectly capable of recognizing they are going through something, that something is amiss, and come to their spouses or work it out on their own. Or leave. You know why they don‘t leave? Because they know the one they left will probably find someone quickly and find someone better, and they can‘t stand that. There is something they want and don‘t want to let go of in the spouse, they‘ve often weighed it all out, and the equation comes out to be spouse is better. It‘s a control issue, they deny their betrayed spouse the freedom to find someone better. It‘s nothing more than control. It‘s not really about a better woman, or even a new woman. Or else they would just leave and have all the new women they wanted.
And if it is about a new woman, what can anyone do about that? Become a new woman? Never voice a disagreement so as not to appear nagging? Perform every sexual trick he asks in order to make sure some other woman doesn‘t? So other women don‘t disagree or deny any sexual requests? Other women don‘t get fat and have bills to pay and nag? Please.
If you are not a cheating type, there isn‘t much that can even make you think of that. When he‘s in a funk for a few weeks, or being an ass, my first thought isn‘t "oh I‘m sick of his mouthing I think I‘ll cheat". When the kids are yelling or the mailbox is full of bills I don‘t think "oh how stressful I think I‘ll find some imaginary man with no bills" or "gee cheating sure would benefit the kids". It doesn‘t even cross most people‘s mind to do that.
In fact, alot of cheaters will go out of their way to make it appear to the spouse that the marriage is healthy. Because to even drop a hint that he (or the marriage) is having a problem would raise a red flag. The cheaters will often sweep problems under the rug. So with all that manipulation, spouses are supposed to somehow gather that there is a problem they need to address? I think not.
It‘s not up to us to figure out why. Why is completely redundant. Is there really a good answer for that - why? Is there an answer that would make it all okay? No. So why bother to ask it, it‘s not up to me (or any of you) to try to gain access into the inner recesses of his psyche and figure out his excues. That‘s up to him (or her if it‘s a cheating wife). It‘s enough for most of us to know ourselves deeply, it‘s up to others to offer that information about themselves to us. There is not a way for us to dig it out, or be more attentive and figure it out.
It‘s simply an awful behavior, like cussing or hitting or writing bad checks or shoplifting, there‘s an underlying core of selfishness and an expectation that they are not accountable to anyone else‘s feelings or consequences. Sure once people are busted they‘ve got all kinds of whys and reasons. But had there really been a thought process that went as deep as why, they wouldn‘t have cheated in the first place, so there‘s not reason to allow them off the hook when they suddenly have a reason, a reason which 99 times out of a 100 involves them saying something which implies it‘s the spouse/marriage fault. Where were all these deep insights to the problems before the cheating? Please.
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| nstevens |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 5:00 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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| gina** wrote: | Thanks.
You know, it took me years to get back up on that "pedestal" after he knocked me off of it, that pedestal which Meandnotyou sooooo wishes for me to get off of. And I‘m not getting back off of it.
There is no reason to ever let any man (or woman) knock you off of it in the first place. I wish people would realize it before they go through all of that. Spouses aren‘t supposed to be mind readers. Adults should be perfectly capable of recognizing they are going through something, that something is amiss, and come to their spouses or work it out on their own. Or leave. You know why they don‘t leave? Because they know the one they left will probably find someone quickly and find someone better, and they can‘t stand that. There is something they want and don‘t want to let go of in the spouse, they‘ve often weighed it all out, and the equation comes out to be spouse is better. It‘s a control issue, they deny their betrayed spouse the freedom to find someone better. It‘s nothing more than control. It‘s not really about a better woman, or even a new woman. Or else they would just leave and have all the new women they wanted.
And if it is about a new woman, what can anyone do about that? Become a new woman? Never voice a disagreement so as not to appear nagging? Perform every sexual trick he asks in order to make sure some other woman doesn‘t? So other women don‘t disagree or deny any sexual requests? Other women don‘t get fat and have bills to pay and nag? Please.
If you are not a cheating type, there isn‘t much that can even make you think of that. When he‘s in a funk for a few weeks, or being an ass, my first thought isn‘t "oh I‘m sick of his mouthing I think I‘ll cheat". When the kids are yelling or the mailbox is full of bills I don‘t think "oh how stressful I think I‘ll find some imaginary man with no bills" or "gee cheating sure would benefit the kids". It doesn‘t even cross most people‘s mind to do that.
In fact, alot of cheaters will go out of their way to make it appear to the spouse that the marriage is healthy. Because to even drop a hint that he (or the marriage) is having a problem would raise a red flag. The cheaters will often sweep problems under the rug. So with all that manipulation, spouses are supposed to somehow gather that there is a problem they need to address? I think not.
It‘s not up to us to figure out why. Why is completely redundant. Is there really a good answer for that - why? Is there an answer that would make it all okay? No. So why bother to ask it, it‘s not up to me (or any of you) to try to gain access into the inner recesses of his psyche and figure out his excues. That‘s up to him (or her if it‘s a cheating wife). It‘s enough for most of us to know ourselves deeply, it‘s up to others to offer that information about themselves to us. There is not a way for us to dig it out, or be more attentive and figure it out.
It‘s simply an awful behavior, like cussing or hitting or writing bad checks or shoplifting, there‘s an underlying core of selfishness and an expectation that they are not accountable to anyone else‘s feelings or consequences. Sure once people are busted they‘ve got all kinds of whys and reasons. But had there really been a thought process that went as deep as why, they wouldn‘t have cheated in the first place, so there‘s not reason to allow them off the hook when they suddenly have a reason, a reason which 99 times out of a 100 involves them saying something which implies it‘s the spouse/marriage fault. Where were all these deep insights to the problems before the cheating? Please.
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.You no when we get married it doesn‘t say that when things are hard in life that we can just go get some from another person and bring in another male or female into our marraige and childrens life.
Because if it did 99 percent of people would not get married in the first place.
It also does not say we can go look on the internet and talk with and try and meet other people out side of our marriages.
My first h told our oldest son that he cheated and left me and him because I couldn‘t cook good and keep the house clean like he wanted it.When the real reason was because he wanted someone with money at that time and he cheated on her two and now he is alone no woman has ever stayed with him becuase he is a big loser.
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/7/2008 10:39 AM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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| nstevens wrote: |
| gina** wrote: | Thanks.
You know, it took me years to get back up on that "pedestal" after he knocked me off of it, that pedestal which Meandnotyou sooooo wishes for me to get off of. And I‘m not getting back off of it.
There is no reason to ever let any man (or woman) knock you off of it in the first place. I wish people would realize it before they go through all of that. Spouses aren‘t supposed to be mind readers. Adults should be perfectly capable of recognizing they are going through something, that something is amiss, and come to their spouses or work it out on their own. Or leave. You know why they don‘t leave? Because they know the one they left will probably find someone quickly and find someone better, and they can‘t stand that. There is something they want and don‘t want to let go of in the spouse, they‘ve often weighed it all out, and the equation comes out to be spouse is better. It‘s a control issue, they deny their betrayed spouse the freedom to find someone better. It‘s nothing more than control. It‘s not really about a better woman, or even a new woman. Or else they would just leave and have all the new women they wanted.
And if it is about a new woman, what can anyone do about that? Become a new woman? Never voice a disagreement so as not to appear nagging? Perform every sexual trick he asks in order to make sure some other woman doesn‘t? So other women don‘t disagree or deny any sexual requests? Other women don‘t get fat and have bills to pay and nag? Please.
If you are not a cheating type, there isn‘t much that can even make you think of that. When he‘s in a funk for a few weeks, or being an ass, my first thought isn‘t "oh I‘m sick of his mouthing I think I‘ll cheat". When the kids are yelling or the mailbox is full of bills I don‘t think "oh how stressful I think I‘ll find some imaginary man with no bills" or "gee cheating sure would benefit the kids". It doesn‘t even cross most people‘s mind to do that.
In fact, alot of cheaters will go out of their way to make it appear to the spouse that the marriage is healthy. Because to even drop a hint that he (or the marriage) is having a problem would raise a red flag. The cheaters will often sweep problems under the rug. So with all that manipulation, spouses are supposed to somehow gather that there is a problem they need to address? I think not.
It‘s not up to us to figure out why. Why is completely redundant. Is there really a good answer for that - why? Is there an answer that would make it all okay? No. So why bother to ask it, it‘s not up to me (or any of you) to try to gain access into the inner recesses of his psyche and figure out his excues. That‘s up to him (or her if it‘s a cheating wife). It‘s enough for most of us to know ourselves deeply, it‘s up to others to offer that information about themselves to us. There is not a way for us to dig it out, or be more attentive and figure it out.
It‘s simply an awful behavior, like cussing or hitting or writing bad checks or shoplifting, there‘s an underlying core of selfishness and an expectation that they are not accountable to anyone else‘s feelings or consequences. Sure once people are busted they‘ve got all kinds of whys and reasons. But had there really been a thought process that went as deep as why, they wouldn‘t have cheated in the first place, so there‘s not reason to allow them off the hook when they suddenly have a reason, a reason which 99 times out of a 100 involves them saying something which implies it‘s the spouse/marriage fault. Where were all these deep insights to the problems before the cheating? Please.
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.You no when we get married it doesn‘t say that when things are hard in life that we can just go get some from another person and bring in another male or female into our marraige and childrens life. Because if it did 99 percent of people would not get married in the first place. It also does not say we can go look on the internet and talk with and try and meet other people out side of our marriages. My first h told our oldest son that he cheated and left me and him because I couldn‘t cook good and keep the house clean like he wanted it.When the real reason was because he wanted someone with money at that time and he cheated on her two and now he is alone no woman has ever stayed with him becuase he is a big loser.
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I‘m really sorry for all of you hurting.
Every woman has been fed a different reason for what she did to deserve being cheated on: not being strange enough in bed (what does that even mean? lol), not cooking what he wanted. You should have shoved a Betty Crocker cookbook up his rear end and told him to learn to cook for himself. He didn‘t know you couldn‘t cook before he married you? They have plenty of time to get to know someone before they marry them, then they act surprised when she isn‘t into his kinky sex stuff or can‘t cook.
I remember now his reasons, I was jealous, he had to call and flirt with other women because I was jealous! LOL! Isnt‘ that a twisted mentality, call other women, lie, betray, and then your wife is on the hot seat because she‘s jealous. Wow what a surprise your wife might have a problem with you cheating on her, what a jealous winch! lolol How cunning is that. He couldn‘t come up with anything better than that.
You know, it‘s a very easy formula to get a man to cheat, that‘s assuming a man has even the slightest inclination. Any one of us could do it, these bitches aren‘t einstein. The only difference is we have the class not to. Put yourself in a situation to observe a marriage -as a friend or coworker or whatever - watch, notice his likes and his strengths, notice his wife‘s weaknesses and where there seems to be a gap in their interests or communication (and there are gaps in every marriage), never show your own flaws when it compares to her flaws or his dislikes (even if that means being totally fake), have at least one aspect of vulnerability which you make it appear only he understands so that he feels full of himself - your bad childhood, your mean daddy, some other angst (but this vulnerability can be nothing like any vulnerability his wife has, it has to be entirely different)-, wait for an arguement or a hardship like an illness (and there are arguements and hardships in every marriage), then strike or wait for him to act like as ass behind his wife‘s back and be available- either way. These bitches dont possess any great insight that your average 13 yr old girl doesn‘t possess about manipulation.
And I still take issue with the notion that if we were so good we would have figured it out. How many of you felt something was wrong, and tried to talk to him and he either accused you of imagining things or said nothing‘s wrong? And how many of you bluntly asked him who he was talking to or where he‘d been and he said "nobody, nowhere"? I know that‘s the way it went down in my house.
Damned if you do, damned if you don‘t. If you ask too many questions your a nag, if you don‘t ask anything your not attentive. If you have a problem with his so-called "friend" you‘re jealous, if you don‘t have a problem then you‘re not attentive. Think well of yourself and your on a pedestal because after all there has to be something wrong with you if he cheated, think bad of yourself and you‘re depressed and the poor guy has to cheat. Once they‘ve made up their minds to cheat, you‘re pretty much always guilty or inadequate in some way in everyone else‘s eyes.
He found someone not as good, not as anything...yep that‘s about right. I guess he did want someone not like me, someone "new". But if that‘s what being "new" is being like her and her ilk, then I‘d rather remain "old" thank you very much. He could have taken a hike and had all the new women he wanted, but then that would have required him giving up what he had.
I know there are women with as much or more to offer than me, everyone can be topped. I was expecting someone alot better because I assumed men weren‘t so stupid to trade down if they were going to trade. Boy was I wrong. That seems pretty typical in cheating situations. I might have divorced him easier had I known there was someone better than me, but it‘ll be a cold day in hell before I‘d let him and that tramp or any of the other different comparable tramps get visitation with my children.
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| oldwiz |
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Posted: 6/7/2008 11:01 AM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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| gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
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Caveman psychology, huh? Mind if I drag my knuckles up off the ground, thump my chest a few times then try to accomplish a man‘s greatest daily challenge, walk upright?
What a lovely excuse for acting badly. "Ooh, poor me. My needs weren‘t being met. I had responsibilities. The marriage was demanding. I was expected to work, help out, be a true partner and meet my obligations. But what about MEEEE? I‘m needy and supposed to be getting a whole lot of attention."
The state of a marriage is not a viable excuse for going outside it. If the marriage is that bad, your spouse so unpleasant, the stress too much for you to handle, get the hell out before you begin a relationship with someone else.
Now granted, I don‘t have a lot of experience at these things. I only have a former marriage that lasted 27 years and a current marriage fast approaching the 12 year mark but you‘re right. The perfect marriage probably doesn‘t exist. However, some are certainly far better than others but none are a viable excuse for cheating.
Now excuse me please. I have some unicorns to round up.
As always, just one man‘s opinion!
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| gina** |
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Posted: 6/7/2008 12:51 PM |
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Subject: I have a beef with this |
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| oldwiz wrote: |
| gina** wrote: | I have seen it brought up so many times, (not necessarily only here but in general) that in order for cheating to take place there must be a problem in the marriage. Some people say it innocently because I think they are trying to find reason in the chaos. Some people say it implying that the spouse wasn‘t meeting the cheaters needs in some way. Some people (especially men) say it implying that men need sooooo much attention women better always be on their toes. Which is just caveman psychology.
Show me a perfect marriage and I‘ll show you a unicorn. It doesn‘t exist. If the marriage truly gets bad, then they can leave. Plenty of people divorce without cheating.
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Caveman psychology, huh? Mind if I drag my knuckles up off the ground, thump my chest a few times then try to accomplish a man‘s greatest daily challenge, walk upright? What a lovely excuse for acting badly. "Ooh, poor me. My needs weren‘t being met. I had responsibilities. The marriage was demanding. I was expected to work, help out, be a true partner and meet my obligations. But what about MEEEE? I‘m needy and supposed to be getting a whole lot of attention." The state of a marriage is not a viable excuse for going outside it. If the marriage is that bad, your spouse so unpleasant, the stress too much for you to handle, get the hell out before you begin a relationship with someone else. Now granted, I don‘t have a lot of experience at these things. I only have a former marriage that lasted 27 years and a current marriage fast approaching the 12 year mark but you‘re right. The perfect marriage probably doesn‘t exist. However, some are certainly far better than others but none are a viable excuse for cheating. Now excuse me please. I have some unicorns to round up. As always, just one man‘s opinion!
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But there is a vast, gigantic, enormous difference between perfection and "some being better than others" as you put it. I‘ll agree of course that some marriages are better than others, but perfection like unicorns, does not exist. The point is, no matter what, a cheater seems to be able to take a normal marriage, with all it‘s ups and downs, and focus on the downs for justification, or even create downs you didn‘t even know existed for justification. No matter how good a marriage is or could be, a cheater will usually find or create some blame on anyone but themselves, usually after they are busted. You sure don‘t hear about all that stuff before they are busted even if you ask them a million times. But oh boy watch them suddenly be able to voice and recognize their innermost angst once they are busted. All the reasons come pouring out then. At the very least, they expect equal blame on something besides themselves. That‘s what I have a problem with. And the fact that the other choices besides cheating are infinite- leave, divorce, get help, communicate, anything, but that. To me it often seems implied that cheating is in some sort of realm on it‘s own where no other available choices exist and that is just baloney.
Ok, some men think they are cavemen, not all. Fair enough. Its‘ some men who cling to that caveman defense, it‘s not me, they are even proud of it sometimes. But you must know what I‘m talking about, I‘ll clarify because I‘ve heard it a thousand times as justification. Men are wired to want to breed with as many women as possible, it‘s a primal urge that they should hardly be expected to control. A woman has to be almost as attentive as 10 women and almost have the libido as 10 women because men are primally wired to screw as many people as possible and spread their seed around. So if you find a loyal man you are lucky and better kiss his rear end every day because the poor guy is bucking impulses that he thinks he deserves to act on. What a crock. I didnt‘ dream this up, I‘ve heard it from men. Not all men, but some. If you haven‘t heard this crock of bs from anyone consider yourself lucky. I‘ve also heard the excuse that men deserve to be polygamous and not women, for about the same reasoning. It also gets subtly implied that women almost singly handedly created the institution of monogamous marriage while men weren‘t looking like a bunch of witches at a secret meeting, and it goes against all mens wiring - the old ball and chain, old lady, you k | | | |